Flight Only / Airline and Airports

Discussions relating to flight only, airlines and airports.
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From our Safe and Sound Booklet (available via my signature) If you are going on holiday PRINT IT AND PACK IT.

NEW LEGISLATION IN FORCE with effect from 17th February 2005 relating to air passenger delays and overbooking

The European Union has agreed a new law which will give passengers on flights more rights in respect of delays. The new rules for compensation are as follows:

1. Delayed flights:

The European Parliament has voted to increase the levels of statutory compensation paid to passengers who have been bumped from overbooked flights. This scheme is also extended to cover charter flights booked as part of a package holiday. The scheme has bitterly been opposed by budget airlines such as Easyjet and Ryanair, however the EU Transport Commissioner Loyola de Palacio stated that the new regulations would also oblige airlines to call for volunteers to give up their seats in exchange for advantages and only if insufficient volunteers came forward would they be allowed to deny passengers boarding against their will.

As well as financial compensation, passengers who are bumped will continue to have the choice of a refund of the cost of their ticket or an alternative flight, together with meals, refreshments and hotel accommodation if the alternative cannot be arranged until the following day. These provisions are included in the current EU Denied Boarding Compensation Scheme which date from 1991. The compensation scheme is extended to cover all charter flights including those sold as part of a package holiday.

Passengers of EU carriers returning to the EU from a third country, if that country has no compensation scheme of it's own in place, are also covered. Under the terms of the 1991 regulations airlines were not obliged to compensate passengers bumped from flights departing from non-EU countries.

Furthermore the new levels of compensation will apply to cancelled flights by airlines or tour operators on their own responsibility unless the passenger is offered an alternative leaving at a time very close to that of their original flight, or has been informed of the cancellation at least two weeks prior to their intended departure.

There will be no statutory compensation for passengers whose flights have been delayed but airlines will be obliged to offer meals, refreshments and hotel accommodation where applicable together with a refund, if the delay lasts for at least 5 hours.

The new rules will be phased in and will be fully applied by 2005.

(a) after a delay of 2 hours on a flight up to 1,500 kms; 3 hours on a flight of 1,500 - 3,500 kms; 4 hours on flights longer than 3,500 kms - passengers will be entitled to free food, drink, phonecalls and emails
(b) after a delay of 5 hours passengers will receive a full refund if they decide not to use the flight
(c) if a flight is delayed overnight passengers are entitled to free hotel accommodation

2. Cancelled flights

(a) If a flight is cancelled passengers will be entitled to a full refund
(b) Except in extraordinary circumstances airlines must inform passengers of cancellations more than 2 weeks before departure. Compensation for failing to do so is paid on top of the refund which is as follows:

(All compensation quoted in Euros - see below £ sterling equivalent)

For cancelled flights and/or denied boarding:

Shorthaul under 930 miles ... ...............£172.00
Mid-range under 2,175 miles .............. £275.00
Long-haul over 2,175 miles ................. £412.00

It would appear that unlike the rules concerning delays, airlines will be able to avoid paying compensation for cancellations if they are due to exceptional circumstances which could not be avoided by them taking reasonable action - this could include bad weather and strikes by Air Traffic Control, Political instability or Terrorists threats. However it does NOT include technical problems on aircraft -
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iam sorry if this is the wrong place to ask questions on this, but.........

my sister and some friends are on a day trip to venice the flight left london on time but was diverted to frankfurt for tecnical reasons, and they have been stuck there for over 4 hours with very little help from a well known irish low cost airline, do the new rules cover diverts? they have been given nothing to eat or drink other than what they paid for.

i have tryed to phone the air transport users council in london but the help desk is shut today :(
just had another phonecall plane now leaving frankfurt, so they may get a hour in venice before having to turnround and come back!
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I understand that if there is industrial action by airline staff, the airline does not have to give passengers any compensation.

However, if the airline has known about an impending strike for over a month and has not rearranged passengers flights or has refused/requested a lot of money to change flight date during that time, does the new law then have a different slant on compensation in these circumstances?

We have been told we have to wait until 48 hours before the strike is due to start and only then will they try to rebook us.

Thanks
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A friend of mine booked a flight from Robin Hood airport Doncaster, to Dublin, a flight that should take about 40 minutes, on arriving at check in they were told that the flight would be landing at coventry and then flying on to Shannon airport in ireland to pick more passengers up before flying on to Dublin, in total the flight took 3 1/2 hours, the airline was Ryan air, i wonder if anything could have been done about this?
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From what I can gather from the various postings, cancellations incur financial compensation but delays do not. When does a delay become a cancellation?

Can a flight be delayed indefinitly?

Kind regards
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Our flight to Prague next month has been moved from Glasgow to Edinburgh because Czech Airlines are pulling out of Glasgow. We can have a refund but as this is a weekend trip for a group we will have problems getting something suitable. We will also loose 20 pounds per head on our hotel as it was booked separately. The extra expense and inconvenience of going to Edinburgh is now causing disquiet among some of the group. I find it hard to beleive that a company can just pull out of an airport , because, I beleive they are to lose a subsidy, and customers have no rights except to a refund. Funny how it doesn`t work that way when the passenger opts out.
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I have trawled through quite few messages re the above. It appears most of these were discussing the regulations, seeking clarifications etc - but no concrete info re successful claims/outcomes.

Wondered if anyone has actually successfully claimed for a delayed flight, either got compensation or refunds. Can you say how long it took and pitfalls along the way.

I have full plane load of passengers e-mail addresses to liase with re a Ryanair flight!

I have posted on another travel board but not had a successful reply yet, thanks.
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I wrote to BMI to claim compensation for a flight which was cancelled in November. We were advised of the cancellation 15 minutse before the flight was due to depart.

I have received a response from BMI stating that they will not be paying compensation as the cancellation was due to a technical problem with the aircraft. However the regulations clearly state that one the reasons for avoiding paying compensation does NOT include technical problems.

It would appear that unlike the rules concerning delays, airlines will be able to avoid paying compensation for cancellations if they are due to exceptional circumstances which could not be avoided by them taking reasonable action - this could include bad weather and strikes by Air Traffic Control, Political instability or Terrorists threats. However it does NOT include technical problems on aircraft


I shall be contacting the Air Transport Users Council for further advice.

luci :wave
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Airline bodies lose compensation fight

The European Low Fares Airlines Association has lost its fight to overturn what it claims is an "unfair and discriminatory" ruling over passenger compensation.

The European Court of Justice this morning dismissed their appeal against EC legislation that paves the way for consumers to be compensated for flight delays beyond the control of airlines.

Easyjet, one of ELFAA's member airlines, called on the EC to re-think the regulations.

ELFAA argued that rail and ferries are not subject to the same rules and that compensation levels are not related to the price of the fare. Compensation levels will be "ridiculous", it said.

Secretary general Jan Skeels said: "It is very disappointing that the court has failed to overturn what is clearly a bad piece of legislation that does nothing for consumers and seriously undermines the competitiveness of the European air transport industry.

"Although overbooking of flights is a commercial practice of some airlines which should rightly be punished, delays and cancellations are usually beyond the control of airlines. This legislation only makes the problem worse by creating the expectation among passengers that they are entitled to ridiculous amounts of compensation."

She added there was no consultation with airlines, no assessment to determine if it was necessary and no study on the cost to airlines.

Easyjet said compensation payments will be flat fee irrespective of the fare paid. Communications director Toby Nicol said it will be paying £172 to passengers who have paid only £42, the average fare.

He said the rules should at least exempt airlines from having to fork out for events outside of their control, such as weather, strikes and air traffic control problems.


With permission from Travelmole
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I contacted the Air Transport Users Council and they said the airline could use a technical fault as a valid reason not to pay compensation as it could be regarded as exceptional circumstances.

luci :wave
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I contacted the Air Transport Users Council and they said the airline could use a technical fault as a valid reason not to pay compensation as it could be regarded as exceptional circumstances.


I was booked on a Kenya Airways flight in October 2005 which was cancelled. The airline claimed 'force majeure' even though the fault was technical (aircraft unable to take on fuel). After trying to claim compensation from the airline I contacted the ATUC, but was given the same reply as Luci.

I found this very unhelpful, as the ATUC seemed to be saying that technical faults are 'extraordinary circumstances' when the guidance on their website does not include these as an example of such circumstances. It seems that the ATUC are taking the side of the airline, which seems a bit odd considering their supposed role as a consumer watchdog.

There must be several hundred people out there in the same position as Luci and me, who are now wondering where to go next (all the other people who were on our flights, for a start). Can someone offer advice as to whether anyone has taken an airline to court on this issue, and won? If possible I would like to take part in a 'class action' to share the risk, but I'm not sure I could afford to risk taking on the airline alone, and I am sure the airline knows this.
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:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Further to my previous post, when I sent KA the final letter threatening legal action unless they paid up within a month, they agreed to pay the full compensation of 600 euros each. There have been a couple of high profile 'wins' for claimants in the courts recently, and the airlines have also lost their appeal against the regulations, so I suspect that KA have seen these and given in. But I'd like to think they paid up because of my slick letter writing and persistence!

So if you are claiming, please don't give in to the 'extraordinary circumstances beyond our control' excuse for technical faults. Keep copies of all correspondence and be prepared to go to court if necessary. If the claim is for less than £5,000 it would normally be put in the small claims 'track' which avoids the risk of costs if you lose. Also try to gather the names of as many of your fellow travellers as possible, as a joint claim will carry far more weight.

Good luck!
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Jaws, you are an inspiration!

i'm pursuing american airlines at the minute for a cancelled flight. i wouldn't have bothered, except they admitted they'd known the flight would be cancelled the NIGHT BEFORE and getting to heathrow for 5 am meant no sleep for me. it was totally their bad attitudes on the day that made me so angry, if they'd been nice about it i wouldn't bother, but now i want my 600 euro!

they've written back claiming it wasn't their fault (of course), and i'd like to take it further. i'll threaten small claims court, but does anyone know any case names/examples that i could cite in my letter? jaws mentions high profile wins, but i don't know how to find them. i'd love to include the case names in the letter to demonstrate that i know what i'm talking about!

thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions.
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Try this:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2020733,00.html

and pm me if you want to quote my claim.

Good luck
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OK, that case was clearly a fault with the wrong aircraft. Anyone have any success making a claim where the fault was with the 'right' aircraft. Specifically my flight from Stanstead to Nice yesterday was cancelled, and easyjet have refused compensation on the grounds that the reason for cancellation was the wrong sort. They were very careful to avoid being specific, just saying what they would give compensation for (overbooking or advance cancellation).

The plane arrived late, and it appeared that the problem was known about when it landed. I also wonder where the issue of preventative maintenance comes in (for non safety related issues obviously).

Sean
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EC issues passenger compensation warning to airlines

Airlines and European governments have been issued with a six month deadline to ensure airline passengers receive adequate compensation for delayed or cancelled flights.

The European Commission is threatening legal action unless rules which were imposed two years ago are upheld. Airlines should have been paying out up to £400 for cancelled flights since February 2005.

But the commission claims that passengers are not being informed of their rights and thousands every year say they have not received payments.

European transport commissioner Jacques Barrot reportedly said: "We must make sure that airlines and member states fully comply with their obligations."

The commission blamed ineffective enforcement by European states and unclear wording of the regulations.

A study for the commission found that the regulation appeared to have little effect on the level of delays, cancellations and overbooking.

Brussels said the number of complaints from passengers who say they were not properly compensated has been increasing, the BBC reported

The commission received 4,000 complaints last year while national authorities received more than 18,000 between February 2005 and September last year.


With permission from Travelmole
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I have a general question on airlines that overbook there flights, and who comes of, and what happens, and if the public refuse can the airlines offload you.

As I understand if flight is overbooked they will ask for someone to take a later flight, with compensation. And as for checking in, is it first come first checkin if overbooked

So I am curious if everyone one has a connecting flight to catch at the other airport, how does that airline make sure you make your flight, don't see how they can put you onto another airline if it is the holiday fair time
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