I was out in Marmaris from the 15th May and some of the guest in our apartment told us about this happening on there flight. They said that the women had been drunk.

ah ha the plot thickens

There must be something more to this than is immediately obvious....... and I'm pretty sure that no UK registered carrier would have carried her a second time had the incident happened on a UK charter flight

This is exactley what I believe as well. In as far as I am aware an aircraft will only go into a steep dive to reduce height rapidly if there is a problem with the cabin pressurisation. I cannot see the Captain of a Passenger Jet Aircraft deliberateley putting his aircraft into a steep dive.....scaring the living daylights out of all those on board, if his aircraft and his crew and passengers were in no immediate danger. That does just not make any sense.

"Then at one point the plane went into a steep descent"

If the aircraft did make a sudden steep dive then there has to be a very good reason for it to do so and the Captain would be obliged to file a report. I'm sure the Captain would have been questioned if he was forced to take such *evasive* action and I don't believe he was.

The only reason I can think of as to why the Captain, if he did of course, suddenly put his aircraft into a sudden steep dive would be to hopefully disorientate the alledged *terrorist* and throw him/her to the floor where he/she could be more easily restrained by the Cabin Crew. But even this sort of action seems very extreme to me if the Captain was confident his aircraft was not in any imminent danger. Not only that, but anyone else standing at this time.....Flight Attendants or other passengers would also presumably have been thrown to the floor and possibly injured.

And something else that does not make sense if we are to believe this article:-

Thankfully they said she was on a different flight and was going to be arrested when she got back to Teesside

Both Cleveland and Durham police said they had not been notified of the incident.

If the Cleveland & Durham Police were going to arrest this passenger then surely they would have been notified of the incident How can they arrest someone if they have not been made aware of what has happened If she was going to be arrested she would have been arrested immeidiately she stepped off the aircraft in Turkey. But we are being asked to believe that a passenger runs down the aisle of an aircraft claiming she is a terrorist and is going to detonate a bomb, it takes twenty minutes to restrain her, in doing so the aircraft suddenly goes into a steep dive without warning and whilst all this is happening she is then locked up in the toilet so she cannot be observed, let to go free when the aircraft lands, allowed to continue her holiday or whatever it was she intended doing, and then allowed to travel back again, (after claiming to be a terrorist) unsupervised, to be arrested back in the UK several days later I'm sorry, but I simply cannot 'buy' that. This sort of *incident* only ever happens in Hollywood Disaster Flicks.

If this passenger was just heavily under the influence of alcohol, that alone is not reason enough to justify a sudden rapid descent. If the Captain suspected the that this unruly passengers claim was true, and that she really was a terrorist, again would he then risk the safety of his aircraft and the safety of his crew and passengers by doing something that might un nerve the alledged *terrorist* who might then open fire or pull the pin? Ok, I appreciate that does sound very dramatic but clearly something is not quite right here and I would say that the true full story has not yet been revealed.

The question is why not

On a flight from Bougas to Newcastle 2 years ago 2 men got on shouting and swearing at each other very loudly.One threatened to thump the other one and I was astounded when the crew did nothing at all.Fortuately they settled down after take off but I was worried what would happen if they decided to have a fight mid air!.Maybe non British airlines arent so strict.

Maybe non British airlines arent so strict.

Indeed that could very well be true Jay, but I still find that hard to believe after the terrible tragic events of 9/11. Whatever happened on board that flight, I'm pretty certain the whole truth has not yet been revealed and may never be revealed.

then again the flight was only 20mins or so from its destination ,and the captain may just have started his descent and in the heat of the moment it was mistaken for a steep dive ,i cant see the captain putting his plane and passengers in such danger ,i am positive this sort of action would have to be reported

then again the flight was only 20mins or so from its destination ,and the captain may just have started his descent and in the heat of the moment it was mistaken for a steep dive ,I cant see the captain putting his plane and passengers in such danger ,I am positive this sort of action would have to be reported

I had not thought of that.....yes that would explain that and of course the press would sensationalise and blow it all out of the true context to sell more papers. Well, I mentioned earlier about sudden cabin depressurization (spelling?) as being one reason for suddenly diving to a lower altitude and I am certain this was not the case. Surely with only thirty minutes remaining of the flight the aircraft would already be at a safe flight level where the loss of cabin pressure would not be a problem. The only other reason for taking such action that I can think of would be to avoid an in flight collision with another aircraft. IE a 'Near Miss'. Now THAT would have to be reported.

I personally think we are getting carried away here.
I cannot see where the big mystery is.
The plane would have started or indeed be already into the descend, so that accounts for the plane "diving down".
I've no doubt that an incident happened and it involved a woman who "lost it" in an aeroplane, whilst probably under the influence of drugs, alcohol or whatever, but to assume she should/would have been arrested is not the case.
The degree of disruptive behaviour is categorised into "incidents" and depending on the degree of behaviour, some incidents are not reported or are required by law to be reported.

I think BA operates a yellow card policy, the person is given a verbal warning, then a written warning and then if they don't calm down, other drastic measures are put into place.
It all depends if the aircraft/passengers are put at risk and again the degree of danger.
In most cases the person calms down after the written warning.
Monarch airlines operate a zero tolerance policy and landed on an island a few years back and dumped a drunk off...then carried on with the rest of the passengers.
I`m sure that the cabin crew are trained to recognise a drunk when they see one.

In this particular case, if someone "decked" the woman, then she posed no risk and will probably be attending court accused of disruptive behaviour onboard an aircraft.
I would also hazard a guess that she sobered up pretty quick in the toilet.

"The captain even came out of his cockpit at one point to see what was going on."

I find it hard to believe, that a pilot or his first officer would leave the cockpit and come into the cabin to see what was going off.
20 mins from landing they would have been busy being guided into Dalaman airport and would not have breached the procedures/rules that are in place since 9/11.
That cockpit door must not be breached as far as Iam aware.... for obvious reasons.
The first officer might have assessed the situation, after they had landed the plane.

sanji x

This passenger claimed to be a *Terrorist* and threatened to blow up the aircraft. That is good enough reason to be arrested. And if she was under the influence of alcohol, drugs or some other mind altering concoction, she would not have been allowed to board the aircraft in the first place. She would have been denied a Boarding Card at Check In. Check In Staff are trained to 'spot' passengers whom they believe may be under the influence of drugs or alcohol and thus pose a potential danger to the aircraft and all those on board, so if this were the case this passenger would have not have got any further than the Check-In Desks at the UK Departure Airport. However, if she did manage to *fool* the Check In Staff and she got as far as the Security Checks, surely any drugs on her person, anything that looked suspicious would have been noticed by Security Yes, you can buy alcohol on board an aircraft but not in such quantities that would allow you to become intoxicated. The Cabin Crew would not sell more alcohol to a passenger who they believed may already have had enough.

Of course there is also the possibilty that this passenger may have been Diabetic. Many diabetics breath will smell of alcohol and they will act as if they have been drinking when in actual fact they may be hypoglyceamic. In a typical hypoglycaemic episode the blood sugar levels fall so low after an insulin injection that the brain is not properly fuelled. If the glucose levels continue to drop, the patient will begin to have fits and can ultimately die. In humans, it is so easy in the early stages to assume that the person is drunk. It always pays to ask. But of course not many people do. They see someone who *appears* to be drunk so therefore they must be. No matter how highly trained the Cabin Crew might be, when faced with what appeared to them to be a potential *Air Rage* incident, maybe asking the passenger if she was a Diabetic would be the last thing they would think of.

This aircraft was also not a British Registered aircraft or a British Airline so procedures for dealing with acts of *Air Rage* on this Turkish Airline may no doubt differ to the system deployed by our British Airlines. I cannot believe a member of Cabin Crew on board a British Airline would have thrown an uruly passenger in a toilet where she could not be observed. Apart from anything esle, if the passenger was under the unfluence of something, it is possible she may have collapsed and vomited, or choked on her own vomit and may even have died if her airway was blocked. And if she was not under close observation, who would be there to save her? Of course, if she was not under the influence of anything but was in fact sober, and she was a *terrorist*, surely locking her up out of sight would be the last thing the Cabin Crew would do. Was she searched during the struggle? Explosive devices can be very small now and she could easily have detonated the bomb which she claimed to have on her. (No Airport Security System no matter how sophisticated it might be is yet fool proof). No, that simply does not make any sense.
Again, I appreciate that all sounds very dramatic and I agree it does, but if she was locked up in the toilet as has been alledged, I have to question why.

I am not in any doubt that *something* out of the ordinary occured on board that flight, but precisely what happened appears to have been brushed under the carpet. And the question is WHY

And if she was under the influence of alcohol, drugs or some other mind altering concoction, she would not have been allowed to board the aircraft in the first place.

Not necessarily BHIC.
There is a fine line between being obviously drunk and not appearing drunk.
Also, when you drink alcohol at altitude the effects are doubled to what they are on ground level.
Someone has a couple of drinks in the airport pre-flight and are perfectly "normal" on boarding, then a couple of drinks on the flight, which has the effect of 4, together with the 2 in the airport, plus any potions they have taken just before boarding for flight fear, then you have a time bomb brewing up in a cramped, pressurised cabin...which may explain the timing of the incident.
Only if someone is showing obvious signs of intoxication would they be refused to board an aircraft.

Someone has a couple of drinks in the airport pre-flight and are perfectly "normal" on boarding, then a couple of drinks on the flight, which has the effect of 4, together

But would four drinks....two in the Airport Bar, and two on board the aircraft....double that to make 8

(alcohol at altitude the effects are doubled)

altogether be enough to make someone act so strangley and claim to be a terrorist with a bomb

plus any potions they have taken just before boarding for flight fear

Most people know that you do not mix alcohol with medication or drugs of any kind, not because it may have the effect of altering your mind but could potentially kill you. If this passenger had a fear of flying and had taken medication, would she still have consumed alcohol Of course this is all just speculation again because no one it would seem, apart form the two passengers who have come forward thus far, actually knows precisely what took place on board.

And why have only two people come forward to report this allegeded incident of air rage That just does not make any sense. And no matter which Country of origin the Airline is based, I simply cannot believe that following the events of 9/11 a passenger claiming to be a Terrorist with a bomb is not arrested. Especially on board a Turkish Aircraft. An example has to be set otherwise we call all go around claiming to be terrorists just because we had a few too many drinks. Can an airline take the risk that the passenger is simply intoxicated, diabetic, or who they claim to be (ie a terrorist) and no investigation or interrogation take place

I find that extremely hard to believe.

But would four drinks....two in the Airport Bar, and two on board the aircraft....double that to make 8 Quote:
(alcohol at altitude the effects are doubled)
altogether be enough to make someone act so strangley and claim to be a terrorist with a bomb

YES

People become intoxicated based on a number of factors. Whether they are male or female. Their weight, their height, their age, their gender, their motabilism, to name but a few. No two people are the same. I become whoozy after two pints, but my friend can drink ten pints and still not appear intoxicated. Some people can drink just one spirit and their mind already begins to alter whereas another could drink spirits all night and still walk in a straight line. My mother only has to have one glass of wine and she's totally out of it. Give a glass of beer to a child at a party and see how quickly the child flakes out. There are many factors that determine how quickly the human brain becomes disorientated after consuming alcohol. And lets not forget that Alcohol is a *downer*.

We do not know that this passenger was intoxicated or under the influence of any drugs. She may simply have been a diabetic. Since she was allowed to go free she was not examined by a Doctor and so no one will ever know now. We can only go on the evidence of the two passengers who reported this *incident* to their *local* paper. And I don't believe what I read in newspapers. As this is all purely speculation.

I think you two ae going to have to agree to differ!

Kath HT Admin

there are far to many unanswered questions here and i am afraid we are all just guessing at what happened, for instance what happened to her when the plane landed ,do you think the cabin crew who tied her up ,just untied her ,let her out of the toilet ,thankedf her for flying with them ,and asked her to please come again . if this did happen then she would have to be arrested on landing ,which in itself would have caused quite a stir at the airport ,no matter what air line she was flying on , and i am sure this would have been reported by other sources. i am afraid i will have to be convinced about the truth of this matter .

i have been a diabetic for twenty years and never hehaved like this , if any one did they would have at least have had to be checked by a doctor on landing

there are far to many unanswered questions here and I am afraid we are all just guessing at what happened, for instance what happened to her when the plane landed, do you think the cabin crew who tied her up, just untied her, let her out of the toilet, thanked her for flying with them, and asked her to please come again

This is the one main thing that I simply cannot understand myself. Well, apart from locking her up in the toilet. As someone way back in this thread as already pointed out, what is to stop her from making a claim against the Airline for false imprisonment and against the Passenger who knocked her out for assault If she was simply let to go free, whether or not she was intoxicated or otherwise, would she have simply just walked away after been locked up and assualted and not say anything? Surely she herself would have gone to the Media

I have been a diabetic for twenty years and never hehaved like this, if any one did they would have at least have had to be checked by a doctor on landing

Sorry, I hope I have not caused offence here when I mentioned Diabetics. I mentioned it simply to point out that some people mistake Diabetics for *drunks*. When I was in the Ambulance Service this happened a lot. The Police would call us out to pick up a collapsed *drunk* when in reality the person was a diabetic in collapse.....its the 'pear drop' aroma on the breath that confuses some people. I was certainly not implying that Diabetics are Alcoholics. Sorry that was a bit but I think it needed to be clarified.

there are far to many unanswered questions here

Indeed there is, and I have asked several of them a few replies back, but I very much doubt the answers will ever be known.

I think you two ae going to have to agree to differ!

Don`t worry Kath I`m off to bed, I`ll let Sherlock Holmes solve the mystery

SanJi

goodnight watson the plans afoot.