Crooks in Puerto Rico: How to stop them.

Happychappie

2010-06-07 11:39:39

Facts regarding the con in Gran Canaria

We arrived in Puerto Rico, Gran Canaria at about 20:00 on the 24th April 2010. After unpacking we went into the town to get a meal and look around. We got to the port Escala area at about 21:30. We entered a shop in the Port Escala district to buy some water and milk. We bought 2 bottles of water, they did not sell milk but the shopkeeper offered to get us some. When he went to buy the milk, the other shopkeeper showed us a camera, which he said was going cheap. It was a Sony HD DVD Handycam. He offered it to us for 70 Euro's. The deal included 5 boxes of discs, the camera bag, all the leads and a 3 year guarantee. It was a good deal so we agreed. He took the payment from my Royal Bank of Scotland, Marriott Visa credit card. The other shopkeeper came back and gave us the milk. I must stress that up to then these people could not have been more helpful.
The man who sold us the camera then took the camera over to another counter and said he would get the guarantee for us. The other man then said that the camera we had just bought was not very good on it's own. It would need filters and did not work in the light. He connected it to a t.v. and filmed around the shop, the picture was very dark and he said we would have to buy all sorts of things to get a better picture. I noticed that he had not turned on the night vision facility, when I turned it on the camera worked perfectly. He then tried to exchange the Sony for a Sharpix camera for the same money (70 Euro's). I know that this camera was not worth 1/3 of the value of the Sony. I realised then that they were trying to con me. I said no thanks I will take the Sony, which I had paid for.
The attitude of the two men changed in an instant. One of them swore at me and threatened to hit me. He said "get out of my shop". I said "give me the camera". He swore at me again and said "Leave now or I will hit you". I said "what about the money I paid you" he said "we won't take it from your card". My partner was becoming distressed so we left without anything.
I reported the incident to the police in Las Palmas and spoke to a translator. The police have given me a report in Spanish but when I had it translated I found they have got the address of the incident wrong and the details are vague. I received a statement from my credit card provider and they had taken 70 Euro's (£62:60).
This statement is a true account of the facts.

To: Happy holiday makers and Puerto Ricians.

I have just recently returned from a trip to Gran Canaria. On my first night their I was conned out of 70 Euro's by an Asian trader in Puerto Rico. Please see my report.
I have spoken to a large number of local people in Puerto Rico and have heard a great deal of horror stories about these traders. The Gran Canaria info website warns people about these fraudsters, so why are the authorities not stamping down on these crooks?
I have to ask why is this allowed to continue if the authorities know about it?
Spain spends a vast amount of money enticing people to holiday in Spain and the Canaries but seems to do nothing to protect them from crooks and thieves.
I tried to report the incident to the tourist information office and was told "you need the police in Arguinequin". They didn't want to know who was involved or anything about it. They didn't even tell me where the police station was. I went to the Arquinequin Police station and was told no one at the station could translate into English and I would have to pay 40 Euro's for a translator in order to report this crime. If the police was interested in stopping these people, would they not want to gather as much information as possible? Maybe they are too busy fining motorists to investigate thefts or frauds. I then went to the police station in Las Palmas. To be fair they were very helpful, I spoke to a translator over the telephone and he faxed through a statement to the police station. I received a copy of the statement. When I got home, I had my copy translated. The translator had the address of the shop wrong, they wrote it was in Las Palmas not Puerto Rico and the facts were to say the least, garbled. I had told the police my home address and knew my address in Gran Canaria, so why did they not contact me to establish the facts and get the right address so they could investigate the crime? No one to this day has contacted me about this crime. In other words, they are not interested in stopping these people ripping off the holidaymakers to the island. Well they should be. The Canarian's pay their taxes to the government and expect the law to protect them from these crooks. By allowing these people to operate, they are saying to the honest traders, if people stop coming to this island that's your problem, we are not interested.
As for the person who has been ripped off, what chance has he got for justice. In Puerto Rico, there is nowhere for him to report the crime, in Arquinequin, he has to pay to report the crime. When he does all that nothing happens. Spain is a civilised country so everybody, including Spaniards expects the authorities to act against crooks and thieves, if they fail to do so they are taking tax payers money, both native and immigrants, under false pretences and failing in their sworn duty. It's about time it stopped. As a citizen of the European union, I am demanding that Spain protects it's citizens and it's legitimate visitors.
It would be so easy to stop. I understand that these people are licensed. If the police get a complaint, all they have to do is send in an undercover shopper and see what happens, If they discover any underhand dealings or fraud, have their licence revoked and the shop shut down. The unlawful practices would stop almost immediately. How hard would that be?
As for foreigners reporting the crime, a pencil and paper at the information office to write a report in their home language, a fax machine to send it to the police for translation and the police would have all the information they need to investigate these people. As it is most people would give up and the crooks get away with it.
If you can help stop these thieves, I urge you to do what you can. Thank you,

Happychappie

Edited by David 2010-06-07 12:09:12
To protect our legal interests, the shop name and address has regrettably had to be removed from this post

tisonlymoi

2010-06-07 13:34:06

Re: Crooks in Puerto Rico: How to stop them.

Nightmare....appears to be a classic case of if it seems too good to be true, then it usually is.

Lesson learnt very much the hard way, I guess your only chance of seeing your money again is to contact your credit card company and hope they can reimburse you!

greenshoes

2010-06-07 14:54:20

Re: Crooks in Puerto Rico: How to stop them.

Maybe Im cynical but I would never have believed them as there are too many fakes or c o n going on abroad that I never buy electrical items abroad.

grayejectbutton

2010-06-07 20:59:06

Re: Crooks in Puerto Rico: How to stop them.

Yeah, if it seems to be good to be true then it almost always is. About ten years ago, I had some guy try to sell me a video camera in Naples. This was out on the street. There were several other people trying to sell electronics too. I never thought that it might be a credit card scam, I just assumed the items were stolen or cheap fakes and carried on walking. With regards to the OP, at least they did only take 70 Euros. I'd put it down to experience, cancel my credit card, and be thankful they didn't charge hundreds of Euros more (or worse) to the credit card as soon as I walked out the shop.

TWEETIE PIE

2010-06-08 18:17:29

Re: Crooks in Puerto Rico: How to stop them.

hi....we went for a night in a local chabaret bar in pourto rica....we went early and the shops were still open....my husband and son were interested in ipods and phones in the window priced very low......we went in for a look around as they also sold the usual stuff you take for pressents and soveniers....think we may have gone same shop....as they tried pushing us to buy same thing....I never use my card in shops abroad and just paid for the bits I wanted with the right amount of cash and left....tweetie

isplumm

2010-06-08 20:59:44

Re: Crooks in Puerto Rico: How to stop them.

Hi,

If you have a police report & paid for this on a credit card - why don't you report it to them - get them to do a charge back?

Mark

Happychappie

2010-06-08 23:12:27

Re: Crooks in Puerto Rico: How to stop them.

Hiya,

I have reported it to the credit card company and they are investigating. I am sure I will sort it out one way or another.
The point of my story is to warn other people about these people. It is certainly a lesson learned.
Of course none of this would happen if the authorities stopped the guys from ripping people off.

Regards,

Happychappie.

Sanji

2010-06-09 09:31:08

Re: Crooks in Puerto Rico: How to stop them.

As for the person who has been ripped off, what chance has he got for justice. In Puerto Rico, there is nowhere for him to report the crime, in Arquinequin, he has to pay to report the crime.

Sorry, but that's not true, crimes like theft, robberies, bag snatching and swindles you can phone 902 102 112 "¦. it's called making a denuncia, and this service is available Nationally (mainland Spain and Islands) in both English and Spanish, 24/7 and the cost is the cost of the phone call.
You can also make a denuncia via the internet by logging onto http://www.policia.es under the section "Area del Ciudadano, Denuncias." (but some knowledge of the language is required)
For more serious crimes, especially serious crime involving violence, they usually have to be reported in person at the police station, and in major incidents, the Police will provide an interpreter"¦...£62 is not a major incident.
I have every sympathy and like most people I hate these Asian crooks, they've been well established in the Canary Islands for years and I noticed that they are now starting to infest Benidorm on the Costa Blanca. :evil:

It would be so easy to stop. I understand that these people are licensed. If the police get a complaint, all they have to do is send in an undercover shopper and see what happens, If they discover any underhand dealings or *****, have their licence revoked and the shop shut down. The unlawful practices would stop almost immediately. How hard would that be?

The Spanish didn't rip you off, it was an Asian, and the authorities know about these crooks, but they can only act if they are reported to the relevant authorities, and IMO that's where the problems lies.
The police don't have the authority to do what you suggest and until these crooks took the money from your CC, and turned a dispute into a swindle/crime, the dispute was between you and the shopkeeper.
The police don't have the power to close shops down, but in conjunction with the licence issuing local authority, the Oficina del Consumidor does, and the police are often called upon as a visible physical force to assist/protect the local Trading Standards Officers or the Local Council Officers when they serve the orders.
Oficinas del Consumidores- O.M.I.C, is the equivalent of Trading Standards in the UK, but with the law behind them and with far more power than Trading Standards in the UK, so, I will refer to them as Trading Standards Office(TSO) and I don't know why people expect that there should be an office in every town in Spain.
Here is the e-mail for OMIC dealing with Puerto Rico omic@mogan.es

Every public licensed place in Spain (mainland and Islands) whether it's a shop, bank, hotel or even a bus has to have a complaints book (it's written in the law) and you have a right to ask and be supplied with the form/book, and they cannot refuse you or say they haven't one, because it's a legal requirement for every licensed business, and you'll usually find that the shopkeeper's attitude changes very quickly because it means extra work for the shopkeeper and an official bad mark on their records, and they take it very seriously because the complaints book carries a lot of weight, which can result in the shopkeeper/company being fined and closed down"¦"¦. it's a form called "Libro de reclamaciones".
If they refuse to give you the form, then you can go to the TSO or phone the police because it's an offence to refuse and the police will force the shop to allow you to write a your complaint.
All licensed places have to display a sign and if you can't read Spanish, you look for the sign and point to it.
"Este establecimiento tiene hojas de reclamaciones a disposiciÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â³n de quienes las soliciten."
This establishment has complaint forms at the disposal of those requesting.

The fact that they have taken money off your card and you haven't received the goods, normally this is a case for your credit card company to take up, but unfortunately the cost is less than £100, so, I think you will have to chalk this down as one of life's hard lessons and put the £62.60 into your learning bank.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but if you'd asked for the book or you'd walked out of the shop and phoned the police, the outcome would/could have be different.
BTW: To be on the safe side, I do hope that you've cancelled your Credit Card....it has been known for another transaction to be taken out of the account next month before the card is stopped....they have another little trick of skimming the pin number.

Sanji

Happychappie

2010-06-09 10:26:15

Re: Crooks in Puerto Rico: How to stop them.

Hi Sanji, Thanks for the info.

I feel though that you have missed the point. Ask yourself, when you first came to the island, did you know about the complaints book, the police telephone numbers or the Spanish procedure? When you go on holiday, do you look up every single rule for the country you are visiting? Of course you don't. As tourists spending our money especially in a country or area which relies on tourism, we expect to be protected. It is not good enough to say the police know about these crooks but can do nothing about it without a complaint. They can use undercover methods to detect crime if they want to. In my case they did know about it, I reported it but nothing was done.
As for reporting the crime, I reported it to the tourist office, who should at least have informed me of my rights and give me the information you supplied but they did not want to know. I reported it to a very bored looking policeman in the nearest police station in Aquinequin, he just said no one here speaks English!! Pay 40 Euros for a interpreter or we can't do anything. I reported it in the main town of Las Palmas, some 60K away. I agree they supplied an interpreter but again nothing happened.
Local knowledge is okay if you are a local, everyone keeps telling me put it down to experience, well I have but what about the holiday makers who come on their first visit or those that haven't been ripped of before? Do they have to wait until they lose all their holiday cash before they are protected by learning?
I am sorry, if there are crimes being committed by anyone, any nationality,any religion in any country, then the police have a duty to stop it. If they ignore it for whatever reason, they are failing in their duty, a cynical person might say they are as bad as the crooks, after all if I know of a crime, I can be prosecuted if I don't report it. To say it wasn't the Spanish it was an Asian, borders on racism, which I am not. Asian, English, Italian or any nationality living in Spain is bound by Spanish law, their nationality is no defence. My point is not who ripped me off but that nothing was done about it.
What's done is done, I will sort out my problems but my concern is other people will get caught by these rouges. Maybe they won't be so lucky, they may get caught for much more than me. Some tourists save hard for their holiday and don't have spare cash, to say hard luck you should have known is just not fair. I say again, everyone seems to know what these people are doing so stop them, don't wait until tourists cotton on to the idea it might be better to go elsewhere.

Cheers,

Happychappie (Still).

SMa

2010-06-09 12:16:36

Re: Crooks in Puerto Rico: How to stop them.

I'm glad that you'e got this off your chest Happychappie but I don't think that Sanjie has entirely missed the point - this thread is for those who are wanting help with pursuing a complaint and I'm afraid that there's not much chance of you being able to do that now. I appreciate that this is probably not what you wanted to hear and is of little help to you now. There are already extensive warnings on the various Canary Island threads about these sort of s cams and hopefully, whilst many people do not as you point out bone up on the law of countries they plan on visiting, more and more people will do some pre-visit research and spot this. That said though, every guide book I've ever had for Spain does point out this very helpful element of consumer law - I wish that we had something similar here.

I know that you will probably want to shoot the messenger here but I think that some of your expectations are verging on the unreasonable. I very much doubt that you could walk into a UK police station, even one in a tourist area and find that the Desk Sergeant spoke Spanish - or any other language for that matter. And in my experience they don't even have the procedures in place for locating an interpreter quickly either, at a fee or otherwise. Yes, the police do have a duty to prevent lawbreaking but any crime in the UK that involves an equivalent amount would also be given a very low priority. I've lived and worked in tourist areas of the UK now for over 25 years and can recite a litany of tourist rip-offs that I know visitors have been subjected too but on the whole they have ended up in the same position as you.

I think that we have to accept that this is a case of 'things happen' - every time one s cam is dealt with another soon appears. Also, just because nobody has contacted you doesn't mean that nothing has been done - they have your witness statement and that's all they would need to do further investigations etc. For all any of us knows, they might well be setting up the sort of 'sting' you suggest but, just as here in the UK, you probably won't hear anymore about it unless they are able to achieve a conviction. I'm not sure whether you actually sent the letter in your first post to anybody but on the whole I would have advised that a more temperate approach, sticking to brief concise statement of the the facts of what happened, leaving out the vey emotive langauge and not making allegations that verge on saying that the Spanish authorities collude in this sort of crime would be more likely to receive a positive response.

As for introducing allegations of racism, the fact is that neither the Spanish nor the Asians s cammed you - it was a pair of dishonest shopkeepers full stop so let's leave it at that.

SM

Sanji

2010-06-09 13:10:11

Re: Crooks in Puerto Rico: How to stop them.

To say it wasn't the Spanish it was an Asian, borders on racism,

There was nothing racist about that and show me any legislation were you can't call someone with Asian genetics an Asian ?....... the majority of these electrical shops in the Canary Islands are operated and owned by Asians, so yes we will leave it at that.
Before I visit a country, I look at the official tourist information and this information about the complaints book has been available for years, and these crooks are well aware that most people don't educate themselves before they visit, that's how they survive with their swindles because they are not reported and people thinking they are getting something to good to be true...which it is...there are a few reputable traders in the Canary Islands, and I believe the reps warn people about these crooks and which shops to visit.
Some might say they are getting some sort of perk, but I'd like to believe that they are genuinely trying to pass on valuable information because the majority are crooks and most people including some Spanish chalk it down to a hard lesson learnt.

I've done this myself, so I know this form is in both Spanish and English and it consists of 3 copies"¦. top White original copy, middle GREEN copy for the consumer and a PINK copy which stays with the trader, all carbonised so you only fill in the top white copy.
You fill in the form on the premises clearly writing the date/time, the name/address of the business, what the problem is, and what you want to resolve the dispute, EG: a refund, repair or exchange, and it's best to make it short and to the point "¦"¦ the shopkeeper also has the right to add any comments.

You take the top two copies (white & green) and you take the white form with photocopies of items such as receipts, statements, guarantees or sales adverts to the local Trading Standards Office (Oficina del Consumo) (usually within the local council building)"¦the opening hours may be limited but there is No charge for their services, they are a civil arbitration department and usually traders receiving a phone call from the TSO will be enough to settle any dispute because traders know just how much weight this department has, because it has the law behind it.!
The problem can sometimes be resolved by a phone call to the shop by the TSO and for some disputes if the arbitration goes your way, which in some cases can take weeks or months to settle, you are compensated according to your demand on the form and the business get points awarded against them, plus fines and given enough complaints against them, they can have their licence revoked/closed down because these forms are produced by the local authority and the complaints books are inspected, plus the Local Trading Standards dept are normally in liaison with the dept which issues licenses,

If you don't have time to take the form to the local Oficina del Consumo, you can post it to the address stamped on the form on your return home with the relevant photocopies of receipts etc, but ideally it's best to take all the action whilst still there, especially as a quick phone call from the TSO is all that it may take"¦.even if that means queuing and missing a few hours of sunshine....I believe you have a month to submit a claim from the date of the incident.

I don't know why anyone (unless they lived there and knew who to trust) would by electrical products in the Canary Islands from these crooks because the prices in the UK are quite competitive these days and you have British Consumer rights in your Language, and unless you are 100% positive that the trader is reputable and trustworthy in the Canary Islands, I personally wouldn't touch them with a barge pole because for every 1 reputable dealer, there are 30 crooks selling goods classed as "grey goods" and most "guarantees" are not worth the paper they are written on because the manufacturing named companies won't "honour" the guarantee.

Labels like Sony, JVC, Panasonic, Sharp etc, they know about these fake goods with fake model numbers and fake guarantees that look like the genuine articles, so why don't they do something about it because multi- millionaire conglomerates have more clout than a Spanish policeman? and when you contact them, you'll find that the model number has never been made by them.
Many years ago I bought a Sony ghetto blaster for my youngest son, and when the FM radio band stopped working about 4 months later, no Sony dealer in the UK would touch it.!

I'm sorry you've been ripped off, and I was only trying to help by informing posters that there is a way anywhere in Spain to report a crime by phone, and advising them what to do about it because the more people who officially complain to the TSO, the more WILL be closed down....and until that happens, sadly these crooks will continue.

If you want to make some noises, here are a few contact links.
http://www.gobcan.es/cicnt/temas/consumo/arbitraje/junta_arbitral/ingles/signo.html
https://www.facua.org/es/english.php

OFICINA DE TURISMO
C/. Avda de MogÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¡n, s/nÃƒâ€šÃ‚Âº
Puerto Rico 35.130 / Tlf.: 928 158 804
turismo@mogan.es
http://www.mogan.es

And this is what the complaints form looks like....
http://www.gobcan.es/cicnt/doc/consumo/hoja_reclamaciones_enero07.pdf

Sanji

TWEETIE PIE

2010-06-11 18:36:37

Re: Crooks in Puerto Rico: How to stop them.

just want to say two things.....thank you happie chappie for poining out the dangers....and thank you sanji for explaing how to sort things out.....will take this info with me this year.....tweetie

Happychappie

2010-06-12 10:52:43

Re: Crooks in Puerto Rico: How to stop them.

Hello Tweetie Pie,

Heres hoping you have a great holiday and don't get caught by rogues. Gran Canaria is a lovely place, great weather and plenty of places to visit if you have a car. Please be aware that the timeshare touts offer you scratch cards (under no obligation) you will win a marvelous prize providing you go on a tour of the timeshare, your choice. Anfi is very nice but you can go there on your own, you don't need a guide who is trying to talk you into a timeshare. If you are not interested, don't talk to the touts, just keep walking.
Have a great time.

Happychappie.

P.S.

I received a credit from my credit card company for the full amount. Happy days.

Alsacienne

2010-06-12 12:41:45

Re: Crooks in Puerto Rico: How to stop them.

Very glad to hear of the successful outcome - well done the credit card company.

digby

2010-06-12 14:19:28

Re: Crooks in Puerto Rico: How to stop them.

I think that anyone going to the Canaries for the first time, will probably be caught out with a rogue camera or camcorder. They seem such a good bargain. Ignorance is bliss! I also think that if it's your second visit, there is no excuse for being caught out as hard lessons will have been learned from the first time. Yes, I do speak from experience.

boots

2010-06-12 20:14:16

Re: Crooks in Puerto Rico: How to stop them.

Happychappie glad you got your money refunded to your card,and isnt it lucky you paid by card and not cash!

Boots

Happychappie

2010-06-13 19:46:31

Re: Crooks in Puerto Rico: How to stop them.

Hello Boots,

That was certainly a lesson learned, I don't think I will buy anything abroad other than food for cash anymore, at least with a card you have some record of transaction, with cash you are "stuffed".
Hopefully others can learn the lesson before they lose their money.
Cheers,

Happychappie.

boots

2010-06-13 20:29:38

Re: Crooks in Puerto Rico: How to stop them.

Definitely a reminder to me! we have been going to GC every summer for the last 5 years.The first time we went to the canaries (Lanzarote 8 years ago) luckily the hotel reps told us at the welcome meeting not to buy electrical goods from the shops across the road.If it had not of been for them we more than likely would have bought quite a bit,didn't have a credit card then! everything seemed such a good price and after all it was the Canaries and everything was cheaper and tax free hence cheaper prices! but as the shops in Gran canaria have been there every year we have been,might have let my guard down at some point if it wasn't for reminders like this!
Boots

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