sanji wrote:

Being nervous about flying and having a genuine fear of flying are two different things, and I don't think until people actually experience fear of something themselves, whether it be flying, snakes, insects etc, that they can fully understand that all the logical reasons don't register.

If you start worrying about the people who may inhibit your escape route, such as those on drugs (for whatever reason), the elderly, the disabled, the drinkers, then I wouldn't get on a plane and personally I'll start worrying when the pilot takes Diazepam.

Sanji

Sanji, some of my postings (not just on HT) over the last few days have been a bit tetchy in general, (joy of quite bad jetlag, being wide awake at 3am every day and then going into work), so I'll apologise for my previous post as it was a bit arsey

I'm not 'worried' as such about the people who may block my escape route as based on laws of probability I don't expect to ever need to evac, however, I am interested in aircraft in general and I fly quite a lot and on a recent flight I was 'blocked in' my window seat by a very large bloke who was in aisle. No joke, it took him 3-4 mins to get up when I needed to go the loo! If there had been a need to get out quickly, I would have been going over the seatback in front.

I just think that it is a little odd that given the amount of time and resource spent on developing 'safe' aircraft and the certification involved before flight, that the passengers are then allowed to do things that go against the principle of a fast evac being vital. There are rules about who can sit in an emergency exit row as they need to be fit to open the door if required but the rest of the aircraft can be packed with drinkers, disabled, people on drugs, elderly, small children, etc. so in theory the rules protect the 24 people in the exit rows (assuming 757) but everyone else is left to fight for themselves.

I suppose to sum it up, I'm not a nervous flyer but I do respect air travel and appreciate that IF something goes wrong then it's gonna be bad and you need to get out, fast

sanji wrote:

find a logical reason why an ex airhostess has developed a fear of flying, and has had to seek medical help and be prescribed Diazepam.

Purely as an exercise in logic - ex CC would be fully aware of aircraft ops and what to expect during flight in terms of noises, movement etc. The difference now is that as a passenger she is confined to seat rather than walking around or sitting in galley, so a lack of movement and/or a lack of activity to keep occupied during flight. So the fear perhaps comes from feeling confined/helpless during the flight as this wasn't a factor when working as CC. That's the logical approach - *might not be right, but it's logical!

Although, based on Laura's post in the fear of flying thread, it was the engine noises that were making her scared and as it was a flight to Dom Rep the aircraft type was most likely different to anything she'd worked on at XL. (1st year CC most likely on s/h)

As a general point (not specific to Laura) I would still stand by my original views on taking drugs for the fear. Drugs help out by masking the symptoms of the fear, ie. you don't feel the panic. I would suggest that it is better to address why you are afraid in the first place by learning, understanding, self analysis, reflection or counselling of some sort.

...but some fear has no logic. I've been terrified of flying in the past but nothing to do with engine noises or fear of crashing. I don't even find the take off/landing worse than any other bit. My problem is that I suffer from claustrophobia which can bring on panic attacks. For me it's the thought of being confined in the aircraft and not being able to even open a window, let alone get out of the door that gets me panicky.

The only way I was able to get on a plane is to have one or two (at the most) drinks at the airport to relax me (and I'm not a big drinker). For me, claustrophobia is mind over matter and I found that a drink relaxed me enough to not think about it constantly. Other things have helped me over the years so I don't always need to have that drink before boarding now

I was advised on the 'fear of flying' thread to get a seat towards the back of the aircraft and in an aisle seat. That way, more of the plane is visible and I don't feel closed in. I also listen to music on my I pod and go for a walk to the toilet (for something to do).

I'm so glad that I feel more in control these days and wish anybody with this fear all the best with whatever works for them.

Sanji, some of my postings (not just on HT) over the last few days have been a bit tetchy in general, (joy of quite bad jetlag, being wide awake at 3am every day and then going into work), so I'll apologise for my previous post as it was a bit ^&*&$

No problem, we all have bad days .:thanks

Purely as an exercise in logic - ex CC would be fully aware of aircraft ops and what to expect during flight in terms of noises, movement etc. The difference now is that as a passenger she is confined to seat rather than walking around or sitting in galley, so a lack of movement and/or a lack of activity to keep occupied during flight. So the fear perhaps comes from feeling confined/helpless during the flight as this wasn't a factor when working as CC. That's the logical approach - *might not be right, but it's logical!

I agree, in the past her mind would have been busy and she'd have little or no time to dwell on thoughts of doom during the flight, and she would have been in control of others, but she would have still been strapped in like the rest of us during take off/landing, whether it was short haul or long haul, and now finds the engine noise and the whole experience terrifying her, which is a mystery.

I just think that it is a little odd that given the amount of time and resource spent on developing 'safe' aircraft and the certification involved before flight, that the passengers are then allowed to do things that go against the principle of a fast evac being vital.

I totally agree and I personally would ban all alcohol before and during a flight, especially when it is proven that the effects of alcohol are doubled at altitude"¦.you cannot drink alcohol on some other forms of transport, so why allow it on a plane.?
But getting back to the fear element, personally I think it's the lack of control in most cases, for example, I have no problem driving a car, although I'll admit that I don't like motorways and I will avoid them when I can, but I put that down to the fact that I don't use them enough and my confidence has dwindle, however, I'm an extremely nervous passenger in a car and at the end of the journey I'm mentally exhausted being the ‘second driver' and it all boils down to the fact that my mind is not occupied concentrating on the road and my body isn't in control of the controls"¦the same in a plane.
When you set off in a car every day, you don't have thoughts that you may die, although we know that you could and statistically you have more chance of that happening than in a plane, but 35,000 feet up in the air, the lack of control, the claustrophobic conditions, the boredom to let your mind play tricks and to dwell on things such as "what are the statistics of walking away from a plane crash"?, this creates a stressful environment and an adrenaline rush.

Adrenaline is known as the fight or flight hormone and it has a positive and a negative effect in individuals. The emotional response to fear is highly personalised, some people thrive on the adrenaline rush by taking part in extreme sports and other scary thrill situations like abseiling, whilst others feel the negative effect and experience a multitude of symptoms such as a raised erratic heart beat, hot sweats, agitation, short tempers and subconsciously they struggle to suppress the thoughts of death & doom whilst being encased in an aluminium tube in the sky.

Like myself, I would guess there are millions upon millions of people who are nervous flyers who manage to suppress these feelings and who appear in control during a flight. If you want to go somewhere today, in most cases you know that you have to fly and in many cases one individual will suffer the emotional trauma for the sake of their family.
I don't have a fear of flying, I'm a bored nervous flyer with a short attention span, but something happened to me a few years ago with a cockroach to make me know what real fear feels like, and all the logical explainable reasons do not register in a mind overtaken by a state of fear.

I have tried to face my demon, I have read just about every article available on the internet about them, I've looked at pictures and logically I know they can't hurt me and I can kill them, but it hasn't worked and the experts say that over exposure to them is the only way to rid yourself of the fear.
I've never like cockroaches and I've traced that back to my childhood, but I felt quite ‘normal' because I don't think many people do like them, and as long as they were in the street I would just shudder and walk around them, but getting close up is a different matter and one bad experience triggered off a mental malfunction, which had probably been buried deep in my brain, which 7 years later still continues to produce an element of fear.
After the incident I packed up half way through the holiday and paid for a flight home and for quite a while I wouldn't go away, and I even suggested to my hubby that he found a friend to go away with because I couldn't handle the thought of facing my fear again"¦.my kids thought I was totally stupid and more or less told me to ‘get a grip'.

Maybe it's an unusual experience on a plane, such as turbulence or an aborted landing which triggers off these emotional irrational feelings that sit festering deep down in our brains which can develop into a fear, and on the other side of the coin maybe the more you safely fly (more exposure) the less the subconscious is allowed to play tricks.? I know that whilst I'm never going to love flying, I'm nothing like the nervous wreck I was 20 years ago, but I still ask for an aisle seat, preferably near as possible to an exit door and if possible near the middle of the plane, as apparently this is the strongest point"¦the old jokes of an aeroplane doesn't back into a mountain still ring true.

I've never taken drugs myself and I don't think they are the answer in some cases, but I have come to be far more tolerant and I hope more understanding towards others with a phobia/fear, but I'll admit only since my own experience.
So, if a person needs a mild tranquillizer in the form of a controlled low dose drug to just relax them enough to ease the anxiety, which allows them to get on a plane, as long as it HAS been prescribed by a qualified doctor who will know the person's medical history and any other medication that they may be taking, then I think these people are no more of an hindrance than all the others we can mention, and especially the ones who go overboard on the alcohol.

Unfortunately I think it needs a person to feel a real state of fear themselves before they can understand a little of what others are going though... nervousness and anxiety fall into one category and it's so easy to say ‘get a grip' and throw logical reasons at those who suffer, but a state of fear which can make you lose control of your whole being is a different thing, and once you've experienced it, even if you get ‘cured' of your fear or it becomes easier to deal with, I think you never forget the initial experience and what fear is capable of doing to you"¦.It is mind over matter, but that is far easier to say than do.

Sanji

Unfortunately I think it needs a person to feel a real state of fear themselves before they can understand a little of what others are going though... nervousness and anxiety fall into one category and it's so easy to say ‘get a grip' and throw logical reasons at those who suffer, but a state of fear which can make you lose control of your whole being is a different thing, and once you've felt it, even if you get ‘cured' of your fear, I think you never forget the initial experience and what fear is capable of doing to you"¦.It is mind over matter, but that is far easier to say than do.

I have had 2 bouts of agoraphobia in my adult life, and that quote sums everything up to a tee. It started with panic attacks which I was unable to control and developed into full blown agoraphobia. The first time I literally did not go outside the door for 11 months, not even into the garden, the second time it was shorter. It's over 20 years ago now, and I still remember that feeling with horror, and there are still situations which I try and avoid as I don't feel comfortable in them. Funnily enough, although I would struggle on a bus for longer than an hour or 2, I'm fine on a plane. Somehow I have managd to convince myself, that nothing will happen while I'm on the plane, and if it does, I'm hardly likely to know anything about it, and for some reason, this seems to work for me.

I forgot to post about how I got on with Diazepam on my flights for my holiday in September. I ended up taking 10mg on each flight and I honestly don't think it really touched me. I didn't feel sleepy either and stayed awake the entire flight. My boyfriend said I seemed a bit calmed in the middle of the flight. But on take off and landing on each flight I was shaking like a leaf and teary even with the diazepam. Perhaps my fear is just too strong for Diazepam
I'm determined not to let my fear hold me back though. Next year i'm doing a twin centre holiday to NY and Vegas so i'll probably still take the 10mg before each flight anyway. I might look into some other therapies like hypnosis.

I was prescribed 5 mg. Diazapam when I had a slipped disc recently and they really affected me. I got up in the morning, dressed sat in the chair and fell asleep again. I was also so confused I didn't know where I was. I only took them for two days but it took a week for them to get out of my system. I would never touch them again.

I wish they had, had that affect on me! it's so bizarre that it didn't even take the edge off really.