A very interesting point. If your paperwork says total deposit is £x and doesn't give a breakdown, I guess that is what you have to pay.

Though do check the Ts and Cs about this and also that it may result in a major change.

Mark

When a booking is made then someone has to be designated as the "Lead Name" - Any cancelation or amendment to the booking has to be made by the lead named person.

When a booking is made then a deposit has to be paid for each person. In this particular case it would seem the booking was made on the "Low Deposit" scheme. A first payment of £100 per person, and the balance (£200pp) by a certain date. Six people at £300 = £1,800. If any person(s) decide to drop out then the balance of the deposit does need to be paid. You agree to that when booking even if you decide to cancel. It is stated in the Terms & Conditions.

You need to ensure that the lead named person does make them aware that two people have decided to cancel. If not then you will also be liable for the balance.

Hope you can understand this. If you need any more advice then please ask.

Can I also welcome you to HT - you might be new to HT but there is plenty of information on here for any future holiday information, help and advice.

fwh

OP - can you please clarify:

Say total holiday is £6,000 (6 people at £1,000)

You understood 6 x £300 deposit = £1,800 payable as a deposit.

Now two people drop out - so total new holiday price is £4,000 (4 people at £1,000)

Is your argument that £1,800 deposit is payable with the balance being £2,200?

This being based on your paperwork stating total depost is £1,800 which you are going to fulfil as the paperwork doesn't show how the deposit is broken down?

Mark

went into thomas cook today they said its fine to take off 2 people but they would have to pay £200 to the amount of the deposit. I checked the paper work and it states the amount of the deposit £1800, but it doesn't at all state that it has to be £300 per person,

I see what you are trying to say but the total holiday cost was worked out for 6 people and Ts and Cs state that if there are any cancellations then the balance of the low deposit has to be paid. So if the two that are pulling out don't pay this £200 each, the other 4 will have to cough up this extra £400.

Yes exactly Shirley . However I would also like to point out that I have taken a person off 2 TC bookings in recent years with no loss of deposit .. That is probably because (a) the booking still stands and (b) no room has actually been cancelled and in both cases this was an extra 3rd adult to a room . I still think it's worth checking with TC though and clarifying with the agent . In my case both bookings were made direct .

(b) no room has actually been cancelled and in both cases this was an extra 3rd adult to a room

I think that's the crucial difference Lynn - the number of rooms booked remained the same even if you did lose the '3rd person in a room' discount for the remaining two occupants - whereas in the OP's case they presumably now want the booking changed to just 2 rooms.

From what I can make out the total cost of the holiday was originally

6 x 1200 = £7200

with £600 of the £1800 deposit paid when the holiday was booked leaving a balance of £1200 to be paid when the balance of the deposit was due followed by a further £5600 to be paid 10/12 weeks before leaving.

But now that 2 people have decided to cancel this means that the total holiday will cost

4 x 1200 + (2 x 300) lost deposits = £5400

Taking into account the low deposit previously paid the current outstanding balance is £4800 and when the remainder of the original deposit is paid this will reduce to £3600 to be divided amongst the remaining 4 people ie £900.

If the two people who have cancelled pay their share of the deposit balance then the total cost per person for the four remaining people will stay the same at £1200. But if the two people who have cancelled renege on paying their share of the outstanding deposit then the total cost per person for the others will go up to £1300.

If neither of the two people who have cancelled were the lead name then legally they can just walk away from this - but no doubt they'll also have to reconcile themselves to walking away from the friendship group too. If they don't pay their share of the outstanding deposit they'll push the overall final cost up by £100 for each of their 4 other friends. So the OP and the other person who wants to cancel have to decide how much this set of friendships is worth to them.

Another possible alternative would be to find another two friends who are willing to take their place - changing the names on the booking would cost relatively little if it's done now. But for those of us with long memories on this forum, we know that won't necessarily solve the 'who pays what' problem if the replacement names don't agree to paying the full deposit because they think that they are doing the two who are cancelling and the remaining 4 a favour and that the two people who are cancelling should still honour the full deposit payment leaving them to just pay £900 plus any admin fee for the name change.

Unfortunately, these low deposit schemes do seem to confuse people with many, like the OP, not realising that the full deposit not only still needs to be paid regardless of how many do or don't cancel but that a lost deposit really is a lost deposit and that the total cost of the holiday is 4 times the per person cost at booking PLUS the two lost deposts. It thus represents an additional cost over and above the individual outstanding balances to be paid by the remaining members of the group that will bump up the cost for them if anybody cancelling doesn't pay their share of the total deposit that everybody agreed to pay.

SM

Thanks to all for your urgent replies. yeah what Mark is saying in his second point is what I'm pushing for because when i was in she gave me a standard contact and said that this what the lead name got and signed, when i read it in the shop and found the wording in the contract terrible you can't say that the total deposit for me and my group is £1800 without stating that each person has an obligation to pay £300 each. I think thats why i got frustrated, SM you explain the situation very well probably better than the travel agents i was saying to the lady so what if 2 people pay £900 each that's your deposit , she would agree but not explain why i had to pay an extra £200, at the end of the day its my fault and i will pay the £200 if need be i will just have to do it very grudgingly.

At the end of the day if you enter into a contract and pull out, the deposit is usually lost. the whole point of a deposit is to ensure that the company do recuperate some revenue whether it be a holiday or anything else e.g. wedding reception etc.

In essence what you are saying that although it's your choice to pull out, you don't want to lose anything. I don't think that will work as in that case anybody could book a holiday (even if they couldn't fund it) in the hope that they'd get the money together eventually and then just walk away when they realise they can't afford it.

Yeah Shirley h totally get your point I think its just total in-experience on my part and the fact i didn't want to lose any more money after losing the initial £100. Its definitely a lesson learned, first time i have had to pull out of anything. Ah well thanks very much for all your advice it is very much appreciated.

when i read it in the shop and found the wording in the contract terrible you can't say that the total deposit for me and my group is £1800 without stating that each person has an obligation to pay £300 each.

Unfortunately, the TOs contract is with the person down as lead name on the booking form and them alone and not with each of you individually and if push came to shove, that person is responsible for the whole cost of the holiday for everybody. In the event of you and the other person who cancelled refusing to pay the balance of your deposits and the others refused to share that out amongst themselves, the lead name would be liable for the whole of that £400 on top of their own holiday costs.

I suggest even though you won't now be going on the holiday, that you share the replies you've had here with all the others in the group because if anybody pulls out nearer the departure date (eg when the final balance needs to be paid) then the problem escalates for the lead name who could find themselves liable for £1,000s and not just £100s of outstanding money. Given that most TOs will allow you to gradually pay off any outstanding balance in instalments before the date at which the balance must be paid, it might be worth the others calculating how much everybody would need to pay off each month in order to ensure that the balance is paid in good time and then arrange to meet up each month to do this together at the shop? That way the lead name is to some extent protected because their liability would progressively decrease as the date the holiday has to be paid for in full approaches.

I'm sorry but as you say, you'll just have to put this down to experience and be forewarned for the future. Going on holiday with friends can be fraught at the best of times but as you've discovered, the problems can start and put friendships under strain even before you leave home if everybody isn't absolutely crystal clear about the obligations that they are entering into by agreeing to go on holiday together.

when i was in she gave me a standard contact and said that this what the lead name got and signed,

Re-reading your earlier reply I suspect that the agent wouldn't be prepared to discuss the detail of your group's specific booking with you because, again, you are not a party to that contract between them and the lead name. Had she done so, she would have been in breach of data protection law as a result of disclosing information to a 3rd party, ie you, who was not a signatory to the contract even if you had been named as a passenger on the booking form by the lead name.

SM

Had she done so, she would have been in breach of data protection law as a result of disclosing information to a 3rd party, ie you, who was not a signatory to the contract even if you had been named as a passenger on the booking form by the lead name.

The dreaded Data Protection Act excuse that causes so many problems. The manner in which these contracts work does cause problems amongst friends. The ins and outs of who pays at the deposit stage does not really matter. The more important thing here is the fact that two people have decided to cancel - the reason does not matter. The lead name must make it a priority item to inform them of this. If they fail to do so then the booking will continue for six people and the lead name will become liable for the additional costs.

If you are experienced in these things you do it automatically but there are always people who are new to it and not aware how it works.

fwh

I don't think the Data Protection Act has anything to do with this, or that TC mentioned it. This is a simple issue of contract law, TC have a contract with the lead person and that's that. The lead person signed for a total amount which included a total deposit. Anyone else in the group has to go through the lead person. What's never properly explained by travel agents and tour ops is that the lead person really needs to get a written agreement from the others before signing the contract. The National Lottery actually produce a form that their "groups" can sign to prevent problems later, why can't the travel trade??

The actual brochure/website will explain individual costs and any "per booking" costs but the invoice is for the total lump which the lead person has to sort out. What TC are asking for is the full deposit for everyone who originally booked plus the remainder for those who go - as Shirley said, if the 2 who don't go don't pay their deposit then the other 4 will have to carry the cost, which doesn't seem fair.

I don't think the Data Protection Act has anything to do with this, or that TC mentioned it. This is a simple issue of contract law, TC have a contract with the lead person and that's that.

The two can't really be separated, Steve - I think that we're agreed that TC's contract is with the lead name and them alone? In which case the Data Protection laws apply when it comes to whom TC can and can't discuss the specific content of the contract/booking with. Staff in the shop might not know or understand why they can only discuss a booking with the lead name but I'd be very surprised to discover that they weren't instructed to never discuss a specific booking with anybody else even if they are a named passenger.

Parents are sometimes very surprised to discover that even when they are the ones paying University fees, nobody at the University I work at (or any other for that matter) will discuss their offspring's progress with them without the express written permission of the son/daughter! Which is usually not forthcoming when their child realises that the Uni is likely to tell their Mum and/or Dad something they'd rather they didn't know - such as 'We haven't seen them since they dropped out of their course 6 moinths ago'! Handing over the cash doesn't make them a party to the contract between the student and the University and the same will apply in the travel industry.

SM

Stu, I'm glad our advice has been helpful to you

don't forget to keep popping in here for any advice you need in the future or indeed to help others. we're a friendly forum as, no doubt you've realised

Lot's of agent's actually give you something to sign that says if you cancel you still owe the remainder of the low deposit. Either that, or it is written into the shop generated paperwork they give you.

If I had 6 apples and were selling them at £1 each and 6 people wanted them and put a deposit of 20p each down (£1.20) I'd be selling my 6 apples.
If two people then decided to pull out and the other 4 paid an extra 10p each towards the deposit of £1.20 I'd now only be selling 4 apples and have two rotting apples left to sell! I'd probably have to sell them cheaper now!

Sounds a daft way of putting things but it does go something like that!!!

Sorry folks but the OP has not been back to HT since January 11th so we don't know how they went on.

fwh

He said in his last post that he would be paying the balance of the deposits to Thomas Cook on the two holidays that his friends had pulled out of and was prepared to pay the 200 GBP's out of his own pocket, so one would assume that is the end of the matter and nothing for him to report back on.