The fact you flew with Air France does not make them responsible as far as any claim is concerned. You booked the holiday with Thos Cook and accordingly your contract was with them. Any compensation would be made by Thos Cook who (in theory at least) would recover it from Air France. They were in effect a sub-contractor to Thos Cook.
We do need some more information before we can advise you of what to do. First where/how did you book the holiday? At a shop or over the internet? Did you discuss the missing luggage with the rep and what did they say/do? Did you fill in any forms? Whilst items such as a specialist buggy are not something you can replace you would have been entitled to purchase clothing and claim back the cost in such cases, the rep should have told you this.
No doubt other members will be able to assist if you can answer the above it does help us.

fwh

HI...thank you for the quick response. I will find out additional information tomorrow. When I said that they flew Air France, this was not part of their Thomas Cook booking. They booked a flight themselves, through Air France. The flights, as far as I know were cheaper this way, which is why they decided to book their own flights. They did get their luggage and buggy back, but it was literally as they were leaving the hotel to come home. All they wanted was a good holiday, however this was not possible as they had none of their luggage until they were leaving. The flights had nothing to do with Thomas Cook as it was a spearate booking. To be honest, it is not really the money that they are sad for, it is the feeling of not having given their children the holiday that was promised. It is this, ideally that they would like to get back. Anymore details and I can ask her tomorrow. NOt sure whther the holiday and flights were booked through the internet or shop...woul;d have to check this one. I am possibly assuming that being Air France, the flights were booked over the internet. I will double check in the morning!
Thanks

Just wanted to add something. The booking through Thomas Cook covered the resort hotal, a dinner with the Disney Characters and transport to and from the airport. This is why I felt that Thomas Cook aren't really to blame. Everything that was booked through them, they got. It was Air France, who they booked separately themselves, who let them down. My sister tried to call Air France several times whilst in Paris but it was very difficult to get a solid answer. She was just being told that it was on its way...
Eventually it did get there, via Brussels...just as they were leaving the hotel.

In that case this holiday wasn't a package booked through Thomas Cook and Air France alone are responsible for the problem with the luggage but only that and nothing else re the holiday. It's going to be hard to push for compensation for the lack of enjoyment of the holiday - airline T&Cs usually only cover re-imbursement of necessary expenditure until the luggage is located or the cost of replacing lost items if it is never found. A lot will depend on when and how the non-appearance of the luggage was reported to Air France at the airport and what Air France's response was at the time.

SM

If they booked the flights direct with Air France then Thos Cook do not enter into it and the claim is against Air France. Have a look here for contact information.

http://www.airfrance.co.uk/GB/en/local/avotreservice/relationclientele/clientele_reclamations.htm

I would suggest that you contact them via the above initially. I appreciate that the main concern here is the effect the problem has had on a young disabled person but please, when you contact them do not forget the complaint is the loss of luggage. The fact that there is a disabled person involved is what made the situation so traumatic and say that.

Please keep us informed how you go on and feel free to ask for help and advice.

fwh

Thank you so much for that reply. I know that Air France are responsible, but I also know that in today's world...terms and conditions, excuses, get out clauses...call them what you like are all going to kick in if it means not having to pay for anything! This is really sad. At the end of the day this was supposed to be a wonderful holiday. 'Making do' by buying clothes, new toiletries etc is, in my mind, a really sad thing to have to do when you spent so long, at home, carefully planning, buying and packing everything you need.

As far as I am concerned, I am desperately hoping that Air France can see that morally, they should be providing this family with the holiday that they deserved...and paid for. I won;t hold my breath! However, I am not one for giving in and taking things lying down....

If I have to sue them or go to the press...I will!!!!!

Thanks once again.

It is not as if it was simply their washback that was left behind. It was their entire luggage. They had nothing! Of course this spoils their enjoyment...and if the luggage had turned up perhaps a day after, you'd expect less compensation...but to have nothing for the entire holiday and then to be expected to go out shopping for some clothes, whilst on hoiliday is totally outrageous. Would the chief executive of Air France be happy with that? I think not! Sorry to rant...but it makes my blood boil. Yet another example of multi-millionaire companies not really giving two hoots when it really matters.

thanks fwh for that reply, alos. I have written a very long letter to Air France, which I have clearly outlined the problem being that the luggage was not with the family. I have also argued strongly for the case that for my sister's daughter, who has cerebral plasy, it was for her, doubly upsetting as this was such an importnat expereience for her. She feels totally gutted that her daughter was not fully able to have the holiday that she so deserved. Thaks...and I will keep you posted, most definitely. I love forums...they are brilliant!

I'm afraid long letters are never a good idea for any complaint - the staff will probably have a pile to deal with and only skip read them. The first letter should always be limited to basic facts in 3 or 4 clear sentences so that important bits can't be missed - if they read it and want more details they can ask later. Airline luggage rules are covered by a longstanding international convention (I can't remember whether it's "Warsaw" or "Montreal") and even if it was a package these rules will normally be refered to in the package T&Cs.

Delayed luggage normally has some cover in travel insurance to buy urgent needs but probably wouldn't go far enough in this case.

I was "lucky" when this happened to my wife's case on a family holiday to Egypt as the package was with First Choice.
However they hid behind everything that they could to try and get out of any responsibility.
At one point the Sharm El Sheik First Choice supervisor came up with the best line I have heard.

"We are only responsible for lost baggage and your baggage is not lost, it is at Gatwick."

When the bag did turn up on the final day of the holiday, I even had to pay to hire a taxi to take me to the airport and back to collect it in person.

After months, eventually I did get put through to a claim adjuster who dealt with the carrier side and he refunded me as much as he could (pitiful) and added a bit on for inconvenience and to try and make it a reasonable refund. I think it nearly covered the cost of one adult.

In your case, you have the added grievance that NONE of the luggage was put on board and the purpose built buggy was not carried either.
Although one can pop out and buy replacement clothes fairly easily, it is not at all reasonable to expect someone on a short holiday to be able to come up with a replacement purpose built buggy and therefore the point of the holiday was unattainable due to the willful neglect of the carrier.

That appears to be the main issue that takes it out of the normal realm of delayed baggage. You may have to chase up the holiday travel insurance to see if they can help.

Thanks for all the advice. We shall have to see how this whole thing spans out. At the end of the day, we all know what is morally the right thing to do...if they don't want to step up to the mark and do something decent...then we sahll be involving the press..whatever it takes! It is an outrage for a family to experience this, and not be compensated correctly...I literally will do whatever it takes!

their luggage was not put onto the plane and she heard rumours that atis was done purposely as the plane was too heavy! Regardless of whether it was accidental or purpose sort of makes no odds (we feel!) As well as luggage, my neice's buggy (custom made due to her disability) was also not put onto the plane.

it is not at all reasonable to expect someone on a short holiday to be able to come up with a replacement purpose built buggy and therefore the point of the holiday was unattainable due to the willful neglect of the carrier.

Rumour isn't fact and whilst it is clear that the either the luggage and buggy wasn't put on the plane or it wasn't off-loaded at CDG, proving why this happened is going to be almost impossible. We tend to assume that if our baggage doesn't appear on the carousel then that must mean it mustn't have ever been on the plane but the experience of friends suggests that one possible reason for the baaggage being sent to Brussels was that it wasn't off-loaded and went on to the next scheduled destination for that particular plane. I have heard tell (but only hearsay so it could be an urban myth and not to be taken as gospel) that one of the ways some airlines try to minimise knock-on delays is to not always un-load all the baggage so as to ensure a more rapid turnaround of an already late aircraft. I hope this isn't so - the security ramifications don't bear thinking about.

A little more detail would help if we are to help you further I think:

For example, was the buggy checked in and handed over at the desk? Or was it, as is usual with children's buggies and disabled passengers' wheelchairs etc, tagged at check-in but left with your sister to use until they actually boarded the plane? In other words was the problem that it went missing somewhere after it disappeared onto the conveyor at check-in or was it left behind at the departure gate/on the airbridge and wasn't loaded at that point? Baggage loaded at the gate is usually off-loaded first and made available immediately at the aircraft door - what happened in your sister's experience? If the buggy was left by her at the gate but wasn't available for immediate use as they got off the plane when they landed then you are really dealing with two separate incidences and two separate procedures going wrong but probably more likely to be a case of coincidence rather than conspiracy.

Secondly, how, where and when was this reported to Air France? As they left the plane re a buggy that should have been loaded at the departure gate? Or in baggage reclaim when it became obvious that checked-in baggage wasn't on the carousel? And what advice and guidance was she given re what they could claim re-imbursement for and any promises etc re how they would be re-united with the buggy and their baggage? For example, where they given a claim for the cost of replacing the buggy should it not turn up at all etc?

Getting Air France to pay compensation for loss of enjoyment is going to depend on to what extent you can prove that Air France has a legal responsibility and not just a moral one here. In effect, airlines' T&Cs say that whenever we check anything in we do so at our own risk and they are liable for payments towards the cost of replacing what has gone missing or is damaged but nothing more I'm afraid.

SMa

Sorry to hear of your sister and niece's spoilt holiday. I too, would be taking this all the way and I think your idea of involving the press is an excellent one. Don't forget to mention that in your correspondence with Air France. As a matter of interest, how did your niece manage to get around without her special buggy?

Hi..well the letter has been sent to air France so I will await their reply before posting any more info on here. As for how my neice got around without her buggy, a wheelchair had to be hired from the Disney resort, however, due to my neice's needs, this was not ideal, as it was not only too small, but didn't offer the comfort, support, or safety that her own buggy could provide. My neice may have well been able to 'put up with it', being so young, however my sister spent the entire time worrying about her daughter and whether she was both enjoying herself and was securely fastened into her wheelchair. Not an ideal situation at all. When a return letter is received from air france, I shall let you know what they say. As far as I know, the buggy was handed over at check in; they managed without it, whilst awaiting their flight.

So sorry to hear of your families ordeal. Must have been awful.

We had a lost luggage with KLM a couple of years ago. KLM/Air France are now partners. We were flying Aberdeen to Munich via Amsterdam. When we arrived at Munich an announcement was made for us to call at the baggage desk.

We were advised our luggage was not put on the flight however it should be put on the next flight. They told us we could spend 100 euros (50 each) on emergency items. We were given the claim reference number and a voucher for 20 euros off another flight. We bought some stuff at the airport as we knew the shops would be closed by the time we got to our destination. It cost me my 50 euros for one pair of pants and a bra at the Esprit shop in the airport, but hey at least I had clean underwear!!

It was a Saturday we arrived and despite being told we would get our bags off the next flight we never get them until the Tuesday afternoon, so spent half a weeks holiday with none of our belongings.

We were staying in Bavaria so everywhere was closed on the Sunday. On the Monday we went to the nearest biggest town and bought toiletries and some new clothes.

We ended up having to claim off our travel insurance for all these items getting only the initial 100 euros from KLM.

To be honest I was pretty disgusted in the way they handled the complaint as they were just not interested. What was more annoying was being told your cases will be with you today, your cases will be with you tomorrow, the next day and we didn't get them until the Tuesday.

A few years ago I used to run a Bed & Breakfast on one of the Islands off the West Coast of Scotland. I had regular guests from a German tour operator who brought walking parties to the Island. You could bet that at least one person in the party would arrive minus luggage. Nine times out of ten it was Air France. It must have cost them a fortune getting the bags to their owners as it would be a courier from Glasgow to Oban, then a return car ferry which was £60 return at the time, then the drive back to Glasgow.

Definitely take this all the way and good luck and hope your family gets the compensation they so deserve.

Good luck with it all