Hi, I'm sure that staying in a casa and sorting out your own transport would be cheaper than booking thorugh your tour operator but the problem is finding a decent casa but you'll get a good one for much less than a TO organised hotel room would cost as long as you are prepared for it to be pretty basic. The one I always stayed in if I could is no longer operating - the family have moved to Miami! I can however, put you in touch with the person (based here in Scotland) that I booked mine through.

Also, I would leave the 'local' buses alone ie the ones the locals use and make sure that you book with ViaAzul - much more comfortable and worth the extra. Or, yes, get a taxi to give you a quote.

How 'doable' a DIY excursion is will depend a lot on how good your Spanish is - don't expect casa owners and taxi drivers to have a good enough standard of English to be able to negotiate in English with you, you need to be ready to meet them halfway.

Another alternative is to make a friend of the Havanatur rep in your hotel, or seek out the Cubatur reps. Cubatur is essentially the local agency for Cubans - they will have better contacts for budget accommadation - but do it as a 'tip and wink' They are after all Government employees who are expected not to promote privately run casas or to undercut what the state agencies are running (which includes what Thomas Cook will be selling you).

SM

PA I can't remember - did you ever make it to Santiago on your previous trip?

Thanks very much for the reply Sma, I thought it might have been cheaper than booking through the tour operator. Unfortunately my Spanish is only very basic but I'm looking to do a quick course at college before I go to improve. Please could you pm me the details of who you booked through in case we decide to do it that way. There's also a website called Cuba Junky with lots of advice which I'll also take a look at.

Yes we did go to Santiago and absolutely loved it! The only thing I was disappointed with was we could only do a day trip as Thomas Cook no longer had the option of staying overnight due to it not being very popular apparently. It was a very long day but worth it as it's an amazing city and I would definitely go back again but for a few days next time. Have you been to both Santiago and Havana? If so how do they compare and which is your favourite?

Hi Mdollar, I've PMd you with the contact details of the person I've booked through in the past.

I'm pleased you liked Santiago but it's a shame that you weren't able to stay over - it's a city that really comes to life after 10 at night. If you go back the person I've recommended to you in the PM has great contacts for Casas there - I've stayed in a different one every time and never been disappointed. And all within 10mis walk max of Parque Cespedes - the square bounded by the Casa Grande, Cathedral, Governor's House Museum and the Town Hall and hence within easy walking distance of all the good music venues.

And, yes, in answer to your question I have stayed in both Havana and Santiago but Santiago has always had the edge for me - and even more so these days because I know people there. I love the fact that one summer after a 2 year absence, sat on my own in a favourite haunt on my first evening in the city, I wasn't on my own for long as people I knew came in to say hello and join me in a drink as they spotted me through the window and I was then able to arrange my social diary for the rest of the week!

But it's also because Santiago has changed less as things have changed in Cuba over recent years. Havana is now much cleaner and sprucer as there is now more money around for restoration projects etc and the general population seems to have more money too. But it has also become much more touristy - larger and more numerous groups being herded around the main sights, more jinertero/as looking for an easy touch, fewer opportunities to meet with and be part of local life and, yes, noticeably more begging. In Havana it increasingly feels like I'm walking around a film set rather than a real living city unless you can get away from the main tourist drags. The small outdoor craft market has now disappeared and been replaced by a huge indoor one with too many stall all selling very similar stuff. Gosh, don't I sound like a real grump Especially since I still get a buzz from walking its streets and many of the changes that have happened have benefitted the locals which can only be good thing.

I love Santiago not just because does it now feels comfortably familiar to me but because it is a smaller, more accessible city where one can comfortably walk to most places and feel very safe as long as you remember to take the care that you would anywhere in the world, including at home, after dark. Also, the music and dance scene is not only so much better but the venues are more accessible to locals too than in Havana, even though still not that cheap by their standards. Many of the best music venues in Havana really are way out of the price range of most local people and it's a strange experience to be in Cuba listening to a Cuban band surrounded by non-Cubans apart from those who have had their entrance paid by visitors and who will therefore never ask another up to dance etc. It can be the same in somewhere like the Casa de Trove in Santiago of an evening when tourist groups doing the 2 day trip are bussed in but they tend to leave at 11ish (when the night is still often only really getting started!) but there are others where you feel that as a visitor you are still outnumbered by the locals and I like that.

No doubt as travel to Cuba and getting around the island becomes cheaper and easier for tourists then Santiago will change too but for the moment, for all its in places downright grubby, shabbiness it is still one of my favourite cities in Cuba. Havana and Trinidad have their attractions but Santiago has a heart and spirit that I don't think is found elsewhere and, yes, its central role in the story of the Revolution will always touch a chord with an aging hippy like me

SM

Just noticed this... I suppose it depends on how "close" you want to be to the culture...or how much money you want to spend....

All I would say is, that if you're doing the "hotel" thing, then go top range such as the Parque Central, or the Nacional... otherwise I fear that you'll be disappointed..IMHO

First time in Varadero? - ENJOY!

ATB,J.

All I would say is, that if you're doing the "hotel" thing, then go top range such as the Parque Central, or the Nacional... otherwise I fear that you'll be disappointed..IMHO

It's all about expectations isn't it? On the whole I think that when in Cuba the best value is to be found at either the very top of the scale (such as the Parque Central or the Nacionale in Havana, the Grande in Trinidad or the Hotel Santiago in Santiago etc)) or at the bottom of the scale in privately run casas or hostales. I think that most UK visitors will end up disappointed by the mid-range hotels between these two extremes in Cuba and they will probably end up experiencing them as simply being mediocre, and not good value at that, compared to what they would be used to in eg the Med.

And as you say, it does depend on how close you want to get to local culture and everyday life. One of my most disorientating experiences ever was being in Santiago but staying in the Hotel Santiago (run by Sol Melia) rather than a casa as I usually do. I was offered it at a bargain price for a stay at the end of a tour and thought 'Why not?' and it will make a change not to be paying to use the pool there of an afternoon. Only a 3 CUC taxi ride from the centre of town and the area where I usually stay but what a difference! Twice a day it was like moving between the 1st and 3rd worlds and all in the space of 10min drive.

Hostales are really great for anybody on a budget and staying in casa particulares really are the best way of learning about Cuba and local life and culture as well as working on your Latin American Spanish but neither are to be recommended for anybody who's expecting standards similar to home. If nothing else does, your first shower will make you realise that you that you are definitely not at home or in Europe

SM

Thanks for your replies, and thanks for the PM Sma, I've just replied back.

Yes it's a real shame we didn't get to stay over in Santiago, I didn't realise at the time that I could have gone through a different tour operator in the hotel who were offering overnight stays. I was really looking forward to experiencing the nightlife and going to the Casa de Trove, but never mind they'll always be another time hopefully. Although it was rushed, we particularly liked that we had some free time to roam around on our own for a couple of hours and we felt totally safe and wasn't hassled at all by beggars. We were approached however by a young guy (about 25) in the street wearing a Brisas t-shirt (Brisas is a hotel back in Guardalavaca) though he said it was his day off. He was very friendly but we thought it was a bit odd he was wearing his works t-shirt on his day off and thought it was a hell of long way to travel every day from Santiago to Guardalavaca to work. He very persistent that we visit this bar in some museum where apparently the Buena Vista Social club used to practice. He showed us the way there and came in with us and we sat down and bought him a drink. He then told us his cousin worked in a rum factory where he could get us a bottle of 15yr old rum and that you could only buy in Santiago. He disappeared for a couple of minutes then came back with a guy, who we believed to be his cousin, with bottles of rum and cigars. We did feel a bit pressurised into buying it so we paid around 15 cuc for a bottle of rum. He then asked my partner if he had a spare 5cuc as he had no money and needed to buy some cooking oil so he could feed his daughter. Looking back I think we were naive to be taken in by him and this is what you call a Jinetero right? Oh well, we'll know the next time but the rum was very nice!

Looking forward to going to Havana now, and thanks for sharing your experience Sma. It's a shame it's so touristy now and I some how thought it would be. I've read quite a few reviews where people have said they've preferred Santiago and have been disappointed with Havana and it's not what they expected. I'm just going to go with an open mind and not expect too much. I know I'll enjoy it any way as I'll be in Cuba after all!

this is what you call a Jinetero right? Oh well, we'll know the next time but the rum was very nice!

Sort of, but jineteros more usually offer services of, shall we say, a more personal nature
And the Santiago rum is good and you'd have paid as much in one of the CUC shops or back at the airport for one of the old rums so nothing lost there! It's a shame though that you felt pressurised but next time just keep saying 'No' or walk away and they will leave you alone. Personally, I don't get too bothered by it - after all people are only trying to make a living but it's not nice if it leaves you feeling ill at ease.

Go and enjoy Havana for what it is - a fabulously atmospheric city with plenty of character and lots to explore. And when you are sitting sipping a mojito in some shady patio or plaza raise a glass for me!

SM

SMa

Is it worth going to Santiago from Playa Persquero. Was looking forward to visiting Havana but on reflection think it may be too far away

Bob

Hi Bob, I'm not trying to evade your question but only you can answer that. By this I mean that Santiago must be a least a 2hr journey by road from the Guardalavaca area and as mdollar says that makes it a very long day trip. To be honest I'm not sure that I think it's worth doing it as a day trip but mdollar did and clearly was pleased that she went but it's an awfully long time to be bouncing around on Cuban roads and you would miss out on the way Santiago really comes alive after dark as well. A two day trip with an overnight stay though would be a different matter - you could see the city at your leisure and get to spend some time exploring some of the music venues as well.

And getting to Havana would probably take no longer because most of the excursions to Havana from the Oriente seem to based on flying from Holguin - approx 1hr by air. So, yes, it's a much longer distance but not necesarily a longer journey time. But again, I would recommend that an 'overnighter' would enable you to see more of the city and mooch around of an evening. If you do stay overnight in Havana you'll probably be encouraged to spend the evening at the Tropicana as an optional extra - personally I'm not a fan, I'd rather head for the bars on Obispo or to one of the Casa da Musica or Trove but that's a matter of personal taste and the Tropicana is certainly an experience you probably won't get anywhere else!

As you'll have realised, I love Santiago so I'm hardly impartial. Is worth a visit? Definitely! Is it worth doing as a trip from Playa Pesquero? Yes, if you can do an 'overnighter', but possibly not as a daytrip unless you have the stamina for a very long day including a lot of time on the road IMO.

SM

I always try to stay overnight when visiting somewhere new whilst on holiday. If there is an option overnight it is. Would also like to see Havana but not fussed on the flying part as we will spend enough timne on planes going and coming back

Thanks for the help

Bob

Enjoy your trip If you are likely to be going back to Cuba it's worth while thinking about visiting Havana at either the beginning or end of your trip rather than doing a trip in the middle. For example by flying straight into Havana for a few days before going east and returning direct from Holguin. Or alternatively, spending the first/main part of your holiday in a resort served by Holguin then going to Havana and travelling straight home from there which can be done with Cubana flights amongst others. That's what I usually do when basing myself in Santiago - fly with Cubana from Gatwick, disembark at Holguin (the same plane carries on to Havana) before transferrring by road to Santiago (and hence why I know I'd rather not go there and back in the same day!) and then take an internal flight from Santiago to Havana for at least an overnight before flying home direct from Havana.

Another alternative is to fly in and out of Havana and spend some time there, either before or after a resort stay in Varadero or vice versa with flights into Varadero because the road transfer between Varadero and Havana is not too bad and you'd only be doing it once on one directio or the other anyway.

Whatever you decide to do this time - both cities are well worth spending time in - enjoy your holiday and let us know how you get on.

SM

Hi Bob (Hullsmoggy), going by your post in the Thomas Cook thread, I'm assuming that you are now back from your trip to Varadero? How did you get on and in the end did you visit either Havana or Santiago while you were out there?

SM

Hi SM

It was a bit awkward to get any trips in as there were 24 of us out there for a wedding so it was difficult getting everyone to agree so in the end we went to Holguin for a night out thats all but will definitely try your suggestion next time

Thanks for all your advice

Hi bob, sounds as if you had enough on your plate with a wedding to go to and 24 of you keep happy Hope that the wedding went well and all the best to the couple concerned. The Cubans can be such soppy romantics - I imagine that the staff would pull out all the stops when it comes to weddings?

SM

SMa wrote:

I imagine that the staff would pull out all the stops when it comes to weddings?
SM

They certainly did when MRSMG and I got married in Cuba 7 years ago... it was magical!!

ATB,J.