hi and welcome to HT

from memory i think best day tours do a trip to Oporto but it may be a 2 day job

wizard

2 days would be perfert. Are they a local company? We'll be staying near Albufeira. Thanks

Hello POM6, the site below may be some help last summer we stayed in a resort just outside Lisbon, and did some tours that we got of this site. You may get some idea from here.

http://www.portugalvirtual.pt

On the main page you will see guided tours, klick on here and see if there is any thing that may help, if not then klick on the one above, and then the Algarve this should give you some places to visit. You may find it is a long way to travel to Porto just for a few days as it is right at the top of Portugal and at least a 6 hour drive from the Algarve. You may be better going on a city break, for this I would say take a look at this site.

http://www.expedia.co.uk

Have fun if you need any help on places to visit in the Algarve just let me know and I will try and help.:wink:

Dave

Thanks, will check those sites. Does anybody speak Portugese. We were wondering if the "h" is pronounced in words like "olhos" or is it silent as in french?

Hi POM, Its silent as in french. Also it depends where you are staying on the Algarve, there is a good rail network to take you to lots of places, the website is http://www.cp.pt & click on the union jack for english version, have a look maybe some info on the site you may find of help. Cheers Jayjan

I agree with jayjan, the train is an excellent way to travel. They are comfortable and efficient. Book in advance, and pay the very little extra for 1st class - it's worth it. A good tip is to ask for seats with a table, as they are very limited

Hi, I'm portuguese and I live in Porto.
To start with, the "h" isn't silent when next to an "n" or an "l". But it's a sound I'm told english speakers are unable to pronounce. The best you can say to resemble "alho" is "alio"... you can use that trick, just try to replace the "h" with a "eeee" sound
When with an "n" you can use the same trick as our neighbours in spain do it in most words and we understand them perfectly. "Junho" (June) would sound "Junio" and you would be understood.
For your trip to the north (very well chosen, because this country is most beautiful where tourists usually don't go!) I would recommend the so-called "blue train" (comboio azul), that goes from Faro to Porto (http://www.cp.pt/StaticFiles/Imagens/PDF/Passageiros/horarios/alfa_intercidades/comboio_azul.pdf or http://www.cp.pt/cp/displayPage.do?vgnextoid=0fcf6e29d6b74010VgnVCM1000007b01a8c0RCRD). It's a 6 to 9 hours trip and costs around 60-45 euros (1st or 2nd class).
I hope this helps. Want to see Porto online? Check http://amen.no.sapo.pt/ for photos or http://www.visitportugal.com/Cultures/pt-PT/default.html for general tourism information about Portugal.

RE the pronounced 'H' in words like Junho, I don't know how correct it sounds to the majority of Portugese speakers but I was advised by a student of mine who is Portugese (from Oporto coincidentally!) that for English speakers the sound to try and aim for was a cross between the Scottish 'CH' as in loch and a heavily aspirated 'H' with the sound coming from the back of the throat! I was never sure whether I eventually got it right or she just gave up on me :-)

SM

Well, yes, it can be like "loch" but we never aspirate the "h"'s it's a "shhhhhhh" sound instead but with a "l". Try it. "sshhh"... "lhhh"... LOL this is quite complicated live not to mention online

If you were English how would you pronounce olhos as in the resort olhos d agua would the h be silent or the eeeeeee sound? just curious, I find portuguese very difficult as lots of language books we buy in UK contradict themselves with pronunciations. I suppose its best to learn it from the being with portuguese people to get the right sounds. Regards Jayjan

Just like I said before, all "lh" can be pronounced "lee". "Olhos" would be "oleeos"*. But this is just a close approach as you have no "lh" sound in english; I'm just giving you a way to make yourselves understood... the "lh" is made with the back of the throat, yes, but with your tongue touching the top of the mouth... (by the way, the "th" sound in english is also weird to our language and not everyone learns to do it lol some just use an "s" instead)
I'm just wishing I had a microphone to tape the "lh" to you

*"Oleeos" is also the portuguese plural for oils lol... but "olhos" means eyes.

Hi,
I have been studying Portuguese now for a few years and was told to pronounce olhos as "olyos" by my tutor (from Lisbon) Wonder if anyone else has any more theories.....this could get interesting if not complicated

Pat

I too was taught to pronounce "lh" as "ly" or like the "lli" in million. I didn't know about the back of the throat stuff. It gets even more complicated when I try to remember to pronounce the first "o" like the "oa" in "goat" spoken with a Yorkshire accent, and the "os" like the "ush" in push. Although, of course, when olhos is followed by a voiced consonant like "d" (as in Olhos d'Agua) the "s" is more like the "s" in leisure ......... aaaaarrrrgggghhhh - I'm going to bed!

That's why the Portuguese are far more tolerant of "lazy" Brits not learning their language than a lot of other countries! It's just so darn hard!

Not "lazy"... it's just that History was different for both countries.
In our former colonies, we arrived, got to know the locals, learned the language, also taught them a bit, married the locals, mixed bloods and brought all that experience back to Portugal. English didn't quite "mix" the way portuguese did :p
I'm not saying one is better than the other, it's just that a different approach gave portuguese the ability to adapt a lot better and now we have more portuguese spread all over the world than in Portugal itself
Rose is right about the sounds she was taght. Sometimes I forget how the "o" can have different sounds in english lol while over here an "o" is just an "o" LOL But it's true that the portuguese "s" can sound in 2 or 3 diferent ways depending on the word (we don't have many consonants with those variations)...

I think it's worth sticking with the language even though it is difficult!!!! I have found that I have made so many friends because I always want to speak Portuguese intead of English and the locals really do appreciate the effort that you make. I, for one, will never stop trying to better my spoken Portuguese. The people that I have spoken to have been quite impressed and tell me that I speak very well......but I suppose in comparison with the usual tourist, being able to hold a conversation in Portuguese definitely helps to open more doors.
Pat