Hi did the Turkish bath rep work for TC or were they just touting for business.
If the latter i don't think TC are responsible.

Self inflicted.

Perhaps the rep could have been a little more sympathetic but it was not his fault you accepted the offer.

fwh

Yes I agree we were stupid. but we were shocked as we did not expect that, we blame the hotel for allowing them on the premises to tout for business, you live and learn I just wondered if anybody else had a similar expeprience

To be honest I don't think you'll get anything back from this. It sounds like they didn't know what they were doing!
fwh - I really don't think your helping and it seems to be your way in a lot of the complaint threads!

I'm a bit confused - you appear to be agreeing with fwh and making the same point as him yet tell him he's not helping! Yes, fmh does tell people in a fairly straight way if he thinks they don't stand much chance of making a claim but surely it's not helpful either if people only post when encouraging people to pursue something or lead them to assume that they have a case when they have little chance of getting the compensation they are looking for. And like fwh and the OP I can't work out why she and her partner didn't just walk out.

In this instance, I don't see how TC can possibly be held responsible for a 3rd party's actions that they had no contractual arrangment with especially given the fact that the OP and her partner apparently allowed themselves to be humiliated and subjected to a very painful experience. The moment the hotel was made aware that there was a problem they do appear to have taken action. Though I am a bit confused about this too, because on the Turkey forum th OP seems to indicate that they were staying in an apartment but here refers to 'our hotel' so I'm not sure which manager it was who sacked the young men and/or what the relationship was between the manager of where the OP was staying and the manager of the hotel/spa where the incident took place.

SM

Hi Jackie,

You will find some posters to be a bit less sympathetic then others, I'm sorry you had such an awful experience - Was reason you didn't walk out, would it have been because you probably thought these numpties knew what they were doing!. I probably would have thought exactly the same. So I don't agree it was self inflicted! - You probably though it would leave you relaxed and revitalised. - which if done correctly will. - and should have done. When we were away last Oct, both me, and my mum had a massage done (Organised by hotel) - Never for one minute did it cross my mind that, we could be in pain after, if the hotel management are inviting people offering these types of services, into their hotels - then surley they should be held responisble to some degree!

Hope your boyfriend, is feeling much better now love!

Belly!

Hi, ouch, Ive had a couple of Turkish baths and they were wonderful. Sounds like they didn't have a clue.

In my opinion there is nothing for TC to be responsible for and while the rep could have been more sympathetic, there was nothing he could do for you. I'm a rep myself and I would have done the same, written a report but been a bit kinder!

If you want to pursue it, I think you would have to consult with a personal injury specialist and make a claim against the hotel for allowing these cowboys into the hotel to tout for business. However they could argue that you could have quite easily have been stopped in the street/on the beach or whatever.

Louby

It would seem that some are not enamoured at the manner in which I post on this (and possibly other) topics.

I doubt people posting in "Complaints" are really concerned with tea and sympathy.

They have a problem and are more concerned with a successful resolution.

I stick by my comment of "Self Inflicted" as that is exactly what it was.

Every reps meeting I have attended has warned about booking anything except via proper channels. Yes, in some cases they are perhaps hoping to gain some recompense in the form of commission.

But they are also giving very good and valid advice.

If this had been booked via the rep or hotel then they would have been able to seek legal redress for their unfortunate experience. It should also be noted that if they had suffered a serious injury it is highly unlikely that their insurance would have covered them.

There have been postings elsewhere on HT warning of the limitations that can apply when booking other than through official channels.

Irrespective of the rights and wrongs I would have expected a far more sympathetic and helpful attitude from the rep.

We all at times do something that with hindsight was unwise - more so on holiday.

The rep does have a duty of care even in a case such as this and I would certainly complain about that.

When posting I endeavour to assist and leave the expressions of sympathy and lurid tales of others too others.

My aim is to assist where I can, but I would be failing badly if I were to post other than facts or a considered opinion.

Why some see the need to ignore the facts and push people to chase compensation, where it is obvious there is no case eludes me.

fwh

fwh, I enjoy your posts and quite often you say things I would very much like to myself.

fhw
I agree with loubychew and SMa about your posts.
From what I've read, you seem to offer an unbiased view generally backed up by either sensible reasons or by your own experiences.
By the very nature of this particular forum, most people disagreeing with the OP on any thread will not be seen as being helpful or sympathetic.
One question though.....why the double spacing on all your posts?

I agree that it was an unfortunate experience for the OP and I hope that any problems caused by the massage were short-lived.
Maybe a lesson for other people to beware of people offering massages - unless you are sure they really DO know what they are doing. People offering massages on the beach is becoming more and more prevalent in lots of places. I've seen it in Bali, Goa & Thailand and also this year in Zante.

I'm unsure from the OP if the Spa was part of the Pasa Beach Hotel.

bellyballyboo said:

if the hotel management are inviting people offering these types of services, into their hotels - then surley they should be held responisble to some degree!

This may be a really silly analogy, but you know in Tesco, Sainsburys etc where various people after check-out ask if you want double glazing/switch electrity supplier/contribute to a charity - would Sainsbury/Tesco/Asda be responsible if the windows you bought were rubbish or your elec bill was very high or the charity sticker left a mark on your jacket?
Just a thought.

Hi, thanks for all your replys, to fwh we did not pick the massage up outside the hotel, we both feel very stupid but are not that stupid, we stayed in the Akasya Apartments which is a Aparthotel it was the Akasya that allowed the rep from the Pasa Beach Hotel to go round to the guests at the poolside offering a Turkish Bath at the Pasa Beach Hotel, no way would we have booked a massage outside the hotel. my partner and I have gone over the question of why we continued with the massage, we don't know, I think we have redress from the Akasya Management, the young lads took their tops off and said "you want me" and made remarks about my partner and I didn't take them on, I think that had something to do with the fact that they went all out to hurt us both, I guess some guys would have punched them but in a foreign country it would have been their word against ours and we just wanted to get out of the place.

I just don't want other people to have to go through the same experience that is why I have put this on the forum, to warn people and all I can say you don't know how you react when faced with a similar situation until you are in that situation.

But it doesn't stop us from feeling very stupid I guess we trust people too much and just did not expect that from a 5 star complex

Also when we checked into the Apartments we were given a card for the bar with Pasa Beach Hotel on the front of the card, and the manager claimed that the turkish bath rep had never been to that hotel before and it was the first time, we don't believe that, also one of the bar lads actually told another family not to go with this rep but failed to tell us.

B

The additional information you now give does alter things. Do you still have the card?

I would also check the brochure and see if it makes any mention of this service.

It is not unusual for a TO too advertise facilities available "payable locally" safe, mini bar and water sports are typical examples.

Does it make any mention of the massage?

Whilst it may be payable locally it does not absolve the TO from ensuring that it is "safe"

They have a duty of care and it could be construed that they have checked and approved this service.

If that is the case then it is possible that you do have a case against the TO.

Your contract is with them. If the hotel is offering additional services advertised by the TO they are in effect a sub contractor to the TO and are required to work to the same standards as the TO.

fwh

Yes we do still have the card, the Akasya asked for it when we left but we said we had lost it, thanks for your information it is helpful we will check the brochure, just one more thing a lady told us to ask the Thomas Cook rep for a complaints form because when we got home and wrote a letter to Thomas Cook the correct procedure is to get a form off the rep and get the rep to sign it which we did so it is recorded.

We are going to have a massage now we are back home and just see the difference for ourselves.

fwh - I really don't think your helping and it seems to be your way in a lot of the complaint threads!

Ouch - that's out of order.

I just want to add that like other who have posted above, I enjoy fwh's posts and words of wisdom. He/She (sorry - not sure which!!) summarises well and often gives a fair, sensible and knowledgeable answer to posts.

Carry on fwh...

the young lads took their tops off and said "you want me" and made remarks about my partner

That makes it sound like they were offering some kind of sexual service if so are there not any laws that prevent that in Turkey?

I wonder if the apartment manager is on some kind of commission?

Janet
I don't think that you and your partner should feel stupid about accepting this massage.

It's common practice in places like Goa, Bali and Thailand for people to offer massages on the beach and I noticed a few Asian girls in Zante this summer offering massages.
I'd never let anyone mess with my body unless I was sure they knew what they were doing, however in your case going to a Spa hotel you would have every reason to expect the masseur to know what they were doing.

As for this:

inflicted a lot of pain on us both

I had a deep body massage (I can't remember what the proper term for it is) at a Spa in Bali, and that did hurt and I was tender in some places for a while after but after a day or 2 I felt great and went back for a couple more. I wish I could import that lady over here to sort me out once a week!

I hope you're both feeling OK now.

My opinion!
Just seems he/she is very quick to point out how stupid people are!!!

Self inflicted!!! Yeah great reply! Also great words of wisdom!

I've just got back from the Pasa Beach hotel, and was hounded for the whole week I was there by the bloke who was flogging the Turkish baths and massages etc. He knew I didn't want one, but everytime he walked through the pool area he would come and sit with me and my sister... He then kept asking me to go "for a walk" with him for 10 minutes because "he liked me" etc. I told him that I had a boyfriend and then he got very angry and started saying to me that he didn't ask me if I had a boyfriend or not and that he didn't care.

I was then in the pool and he kept asking me to go to the side of the pool to talk to him... I said "no I'm busy" and so he said OK I'll wait for you and he went and sat on our sun beds for at least 20 minutes waiting for me to get out of the pool. In the end he just went off and done his work. After this happened, about the 5th day in he didn't come no where near me and didn't even say hello to me when I waslked past him.

He was a shortish man about 20 odd years old with big mirrored sun glasses, and slicked back hair. It's a shame because the rest of the holiday was fantastic and he let it down a little bit..

That's interesting nicola because if it is the same guy he was supposed to have been sacked, along with the other guy working with him.

My opinion on any claim is that it isn't something that the tour operator can control. The hotel management allowed these guys to come in (they probably have an arrangement). You did complain, you saw the spa manager and he told you the guys had been sacked. That was the solution at the time to your complaint (even though it sounds as though this manager just paid lip service).

I would be inclined to write formally to the aparthotel manager expressing again your dissatisfaction at their allowing these guys to tout for business on his premises - enough complaints and the practice may stop. I would also write to the hotel where it was carried out as surely on 5* establishment would want to have this sort of bad name hanging over them for a service.

By the way, I do recommend you have a turkish bath next time - there could be an element of the massage you had being painful because they normally carry them out after the bath. You have already had sauna, scrub and a wash down/massage in the turkish bath so your skin and muscles would have been prepared for the massage to follow. However, a 5* place should have the staff in place to carry out whatever you require and adjust it to suit you.

Shabby all around but in my opinion nothing that is reportable to the tour operator.