on a brighter note kim .im sure this will be resolved soon to your satisfaction with the charges refunded . these charges are all computer generated . nobody uses a brain nowadays if i have ever had any late payment charges from my credit cards or going over my overdraft facility charges from the bank I always phone straight away or email with the "I have been a customer for donkeys years , I dont make a habit of this " line of opproach and ive always had them immediately refunded. I know this is a bit different but never be afraid to query them. im sure these banks just have a policy of refunding them to anyone that asks and has a decent track record and they still make a fortune out of those that dont.

Thing is by the matter being resolved 'eventually' it is not helping Kims situation now. Get down there and don't leave until your have a satisfactory result. Kick up a stink, let other customers who come into the branch know what has happened and how unhelpful they have been, they'll soon want to shut you up

Here is the letter I am emailing to everyone & anyone..........

First Choice holiday reference -- removed -- Summer 06.

21 Jul. 07

Dear Sir/Madam

Copies of this will be going to First Choice, The Abbey Bank, & EVERY consumer group, newspaper & holiday internet website I can possibly think of.
I am naming & shaming First Choice & the Abbey publicly.

In autumn 2005 we booked a holiday with First Choice.

On 28th February 2006 we rang to pay the balance of £807.40, the transaction was processed & we were told all was paid & accepted.

We moved in here the end of January 2006 & the place was in a major state & every room needed ripping apart & redoing, so we spend February 2006 - July 2006, doing major DIY & having work done. The whole house was in upheaval & that's why I cannot be exactly sure of dates.

A little while (can't remember how long) after the 28th February 2006 we received a letter from First Choice apologising & saying our 28th February payment wasn't processed correctly & they would need to call for the payment again. I rang First Choice & they said there was some sort of glitch on ALL card payments taken by them on that date & they had to resubmit them all. We said OK as all appeared above board. Now I know you might be surprised that I didn't notice that £807.40 had not been taken, but we had to take out two loans to do the work needed on this home & money was leaving the account left right & centre.

We had our holiday in May 2006 & all was well.

Fast forward over a year to 28th June 2007, my husband rang me to say his bank had rung him from the fraud department about a transaction for First Choice for £807.40; he said he couldn't make head nor tail of what they were talking about & told them to ring me. They did. They said as the card used for payment had expired it flagged up as a fraudulent transaction. I explained we had paid for that holiday nearly 18 months ago & I that it wasn't a legitimate transaction & THEY WERE NOT TO PAY IT. She said OK.

I phoned First Choice who said it wasn't them calling for the money & it must be fraudulent. They said they would pass it on to their accounts department who would look into it further. The next day the 29th July 2007 the accounts department rang to confirm that as far as they were concerned we had paid for our holiday the year before & the transaction must be a mistake. As we had told our bank that it was a mistake & not to pay it we were not worried as we assumed they would follow our instructions with what to do with our money.

A couple of weeks later (early to mid July 2007) we started getting letters bouncing all our direct debits & being charged £30 by the bank for each one. It was a Friday evening when we got home from work when we got the first one & looked on the internet banking & saw that they had actually paid out the £807.40 to First Choice, but strangely on the online bank statement they had it sandwiched between two 2nd July 2007 transactions (so I suspect this is the day that it actually happened), but ACTUALLY dated as 4th June 2007. We rang the bank to be told they couldn't sort it out at the weekend or after hours, but gave us a number to call on Monday. I did mention about the date query to the man at the Abbey I spoke to & he said not to worry it was probably a printing error.

My husband called them on Monday & they said they couldn't stop it as the card payment was an authorised transaction. They said we must take it up with First choice.

Then we got our bank statement & something REALLY strange was on it. We know as of the 28th June that the £807.40 payment had NOT been physically processed, but for the purposes of the paper statement have it ACTUALLY listed as 4th June 2007!!! They have backed dated it for the purposes of the bank statement, our account did not actually look like this between 4th June 2007 & the 28th June 2007, but by backing dating it they have adjusted & maximised the bank charges. They couldn't physically bounce ones they had already paid so instead they have charged us £30 for each one!!! Then after the 2 July loads were bounced & they charged us £30 & later £35 for those too. They also charged us £20 for going over our overdraft limit.
We have an overdraft facility of £1,000 & on the day the paid this transaction we were £500 ish overdrawn, so paying this EXPIRED TRANSACTION on this EXPIRED CARD pushed us £300 OVER our agreed limit. If we had tried to go over the £1,000 for ANYTHING else they would have bounced it, they have already once or twice in the past, so why pay this? Also to actually back date for the purposes of maximising bank charges is totally unfair. The £807.40 was not paid from our account on the 4th June 2007; it was not paid till nearly 4 weeks later, its dishonest profiteering of the Abbey to do this.

I called First Choice & spoke to someone who sounded very confused & tried to tell me that I actually had paid on the 28th February 2006, but had it refunded on the 11th May 2006. I said I was actually on holiday then with First Choice & unlikely to be phoning First Choice demanding any refunds. She said she would look into it. I actually had no confidence in her abilities to resolve this matter & decided to try another department in First Choice.

I thought I got lucky as a very nice woman who answered the phone seemed to understand the complete mess of what I was saying to her & said she would put me through to banking who would be able to sort this out.
She put me through to a man in accounts who listened & checked on the system & agreed we had paid in full on 8th June 2007 (I was surprised it was that late in the year, but as I said I can't remember exactly). He said it must be a fault with "Streamline" the company who handles the card transactions on behalf of First Choice, as they had already messed up on my 28th February 2006 balance payment. They wanted to see my husbands bank statement as proof of bank charges incurred & the £807.40 payment, as I live not too far from them I brought them down to him in person (I though it would help speed things up). They also asked by phone a couple of times for my husbands debit card number to search for the transaction., I kept trying to explain that possibly the reason they couldn't find the transaction is because it was on an old expired card, on an old expired card number. As we didn't have the card anymore we couldn't give them the number. We could only give them the current number (which I did, despite being very nervous they would use that to take yet more money from the account by "mistake").

I can only deal with this on my one day off in the week, which was the Wednesday I took the statements down to them. I work from 8am - 6pm for the NHS in a hospital ward the other 4 "working" days of the week, so taking personal calls is not possible. I asked them to email me in future (it also has the added bonus of at least having some proof of what's been said to us about it), here are two emails (& my responses to them) received last Thursday & Friday.

In a message dated 19/07/2007 09:41:04 GMT Standard Time, -- removed -- writes:
Dear Mrs Evans

Continuing with our discussion yesterday, i have passed on your
statement to my manager and there is some information we would require.
Would it be possible to obtain the following:-
1) The statement showing the original payment from First Choice in the
period around 8th June 2006 for the value of £807.40 We don't have these.
2) The authorisation code for the transaction for £807.40 on the 4th June
2007. We didn't authorise it, so we don't have an authorisation code. You only get those when you pay for something over the phone, don't you? We knew NOTHING about the payment till after it had been taken.

To make it easier for you, you can authorise your bank to speak to my
manager -- removed -- about this transaction only, where -- removed -- can
obtain all the details that are necessary. -- removed -- direct number is -- removed --. -- removed -- is leaving tomorrow at 3, so her working hours are 9am-3pm,
today and tomorrow... How do we do this?

Sorry for the trouble that has been caused by this...

Yours Sincerely

-- removed --

The second"¦

In a message dated 20/07/2007 09:57:07 GMT Standard Time, -- removed -- writes:
Dear Mrs Evans,

I need to obtain proof that your credit card or bank account was debited in
June 2006, (why, is there a doubt that we have paid for this holiday?) for the delayed February transaction and again in June 2007. I have provided you with last months statement, which clearly shows this transaction.
At this stage I cannot establish why this has occurred until I have more
information. A transaction is usually debited when a "file" with the
transaction details is passed to the card issuer, we have not submitted a
file since June 2006 with this information. At this stage I believe this
has not happened from our end. It is highly unusual for this type of error
to occur. I think you will find that EVERYONE, every single customer who paid you money by card on 28th Feb 06 there was a mess up by First Choices card process, I had a letter from First Choice just after & I rang to confirm & I was told that there WAS A FILE problem with ALL the 28th February 06 card transactions. Are you saying that you DID NOT call the money from my account on June this year 07??? Because you clearly did. The company you use has already made numerous mistakes regarding mine (& many others payments). If you are saying you have not called the money from my husbands account (when you clearly have - the bank said it was First Choice, the amount was EXACTLY the same as our 06 holiday balance) then I have no choice but to go to the financial ombudsman, Watchdog, Holidays from hell, the small claims court & post on the MANY internet websites that I am a member of.

The authorisation code is not something the customer sees, this works like
an identification number for the transaction.
I will be happy to go through some of the transactional data with your
bank, due to data protection, this can only be done if you authorise the
bank to discuss this with me. If you are so INSISTENT that First Choice HAS NOT called this money, then will you please explain this to our bank & make them refund the money & the charges they have hit us with?

I did a search on our system for the card number ending 5356, which your
husband holds and this has not been used. It was an OLD card, THE CARD HAD EXPIRED. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS? I DON'T HAVE THE CARD NUMBER BECAUSE THE CARD IS CHOPPED UP & IN THE BIN, AS THE TRANSACTION IS SO OLD. The card number you took that money on IS NOT the same as the card my husband is using now.

I will try and resolve as much of this today as I can for you,
unfortunately today is my last day at First Choice. I have updated my
manager with all of the details relating to this issue and she will ensure
this is resolved to a satisfactory conclusion. I only have a week BEFORE £1,000 worth of bank charges are ALSO taken from our account; will you PLEASE help us to sort this out?

On the matter of your bank charges, I can't believe your bank want to
charge yet another £10.00 when they have already charged you for a
transaction you did not authorise them to take. It's not my bank that wants to charge for the statements it's the credit card company. Our bank has already hit us with £1,000 worth of charges due to this. That's how banks make money, so they are not slow about whacking on the charges.

Thanks & Regards,

-- removed --

-- removed --

The Abbey are going to hit us with nearly £1,000 (& still counting) of bank charges on the 31st July 2007 & we will be crippled. We haven't been able to pay any bills or council tax this month. We have had to cancel all our direct debits from both banks. As my husband gives me money to put into mine to cover my few direct debits. We are being hit with bank charges from both banks, charges from the companies we have not paid in the last month. Even charges from companies that offer discounts for paying by direct debit are charging us as we have cancelled the direct debit.
It's an awful situation to be in. We can't seem to get an answer from anyone. The Abbey blame First Choice & First Choice are hinting in the last paragraph on that letter that it's the banks fault not theirs!

Can anyone help us?

Yours very hopefully

Steven & Kim Evans

-- Edited by MarkJ to remove personal names and contact details --

Magster
A big thankyou
I've emailed EVERY financial institution on that weblink & the Guardian too!!
I think I should gop for ABTA & similar now.

Thanks
Kim

Problem being its my husbands bank & they won't talk to me, so he has to deal with it alone & hes not very good with things like that. I'm at work Mon - Fri (except one day off & I spent that dealing with First Choice last week) & I don't get in till 6.15pm & its all closed. On my week day off hes at work 30 miles from home. Its a nightmare.

Kim

No disrespect but if you really want to sort this out then he is going to have to take a couple of hours of work. Unless he goes in and deals with the situation it will be resolved if and when the bank decide to do it. Meantime you are incurring more charges.

He HAS taken time off & gone in, but he got nowhere, they say to take it up with First Choice. How many times do you keep contacting them?
Branch say contact a certain dept that deal with this sort of thing, they are no good!!!
I think they have behaved really badly, both of them, but especially the Abbey.To be honest I'm fed up talking to the Abbey & First Choice. I'm getting nowhere & each blames the other.

Does anyoner have any contact emails for the Abbey, because surprise surprise the contact forms on their website are not working!!!

How would I email the "man at the top" & the same for First Choice?

Kim
I'm a bit confused here. Had you already paid for the holiday? Surely all you need for proof is your cc statement?

Don't email, get their phone numbers and speak to them personally. An email will just be another excuse to put your problem to the corner of their desk for another couple of weeks. To be honest if this was my problem I would be on the phone to one or the other or both 24/7 if it meant getting it resolved. An example, I had a problem with a computer company based in Ireland [I won't name them] Basically they took our money and did not deliver the goods. I was on the phone to Ireland from Tenerife every day. If they said someone would return my call within a specified time and didn't I was on the phone again and again and again. Not only have we got a full refund we have also got a nice amount of compensation for our troubles. Maybe it was the fact that I told them BBC Watchdog had been contacted as well as Trading Standard and a Solicitor, and they had, they were not idle threats.

You need to take the situation into your own hands and tell them what they are gping to do, don't keep letting them fob you off, after all it is your money and your bank charges

I've phoned the world & his wife (both the Abbey & First Choice). I have to catch them on my day off. Abbey won't talk to me unless my husband is here, that means us both taking the day off, hes self employed, no work no pay & in the situation we are in..........
I though at least with email I will have PROOF of whats been said.

Like on Wednesday in person the man at First Choice was really nice & apoligetic, but you see the email, they are blaming the bank. I have used the phone till last Thursday, then I decided to switch to email.

Kim . As a practial measure at the very least for the moment you should at least be able to get the bank to put all these charges on hold until the matter is resolved and maybe increase your overdraft limit temporarily so at least you can pay your bills.

lyn

They increased the overdraft £200, big deal. Those bank charges go on in just over a week & between the bank charges (so far) & the big amount we are 2k down ish, so far.

They just won't play ball.

Thats why I would like to get hold of their high up people & email them.

Not having much luck here looking........

I would go with Jackie says. If you haven't sent that email, at least delay it. In my opinion, it is too rambling and you appear to be giving excuses. The email really needs to be to the point.
Have you actually paid for the holiday? If so,you have a huge case.

If you haven't- then the main gripes you have are that First Choice should have contacted you first about payment. With Abbey, they authorised payment to an out of date cc. Therefore the Ombudsman would be the next step I would have thought. But others with far more knowledge than I can put me right and point you in the right direction. I don't see you have a case for refusing to pay for a holiday you have taken though

Kim

While I sympathise with your situation you seem to be making excuses,
bank won't talk to you without your husband, he's self employed and can't take time off, man at First Choice was really nice and apologetic. Why have you both got to take the day off if the bank account is your husbands.

Apologies from first Choice are not going to get your money back from the bank and until your husband takes a couple of hours off to deal with the matter it is not going to get resolved. Ok, so he loses a couple of hours money which being self employed I am sure he can make up over the week, I know my husband could. The longer it takes for your husband to get to the bank and be prepared to sit it out your money situation is going to get worse while the bank keep adding overdraft fees, unpaid Direct Debit fees and every other fee they can charge you.

ok Kim .. go to http://www.saynoto0870.com - go to search for alternative number with the company name. there are lots of regional numbers for abbey and first choice including head office / credit control for first choice and disputes/fraud/complaints for abbey . give some of them a go but dont fancy your chances over the weekend . if nothing else they may save your phone bill by avoiding 0870 numbers.

good luck hope you find something there

Thanks Lynwestie, I already got that one.
Thats how I managed to stop talking to a call centre & actually talk to First Choice head office, I struck lucky with a number.

As for those that insist my husband sorts it out in the branch, THEY WON'T SORT IT OUT IN THE BRANCH, but give us the number of a department that "sorts" these things out, only they aren't.

My husband is worse than useless with dealing with these sorts of things, that why I have to be with him & we have to do it together.

I'm off Thursday this week, we will have to go into the branch Thursday & perhaps refuse to leave.

' and perhaps refuse to leave'

That's more like it

from what im reading fiona Im assuming ,am I correct kim that the balance was due in feb but because of a first choice error that transaction didnt go through so they phoned you and eventually took it in june 06 probably after your holiday and that its not your payment that is in dispute but the fact that they have taken it again at the same time the following year . first choice are denying they have taken it for a second time so I would agree with an earlier poster that you should contact the fraud department and maybe you may get a speddier response than ringing customer services . Im sure they will be around at the weekend.

lyn