I don't think we've heard the end of it, but I think there needs to be an element of common sense on all sides to be honest. When my kids get to exam age, I wouldn't take them out of school if it was going to be detrimental to his education but when we took him out of school last year when he was 5, I don't think it caused him any issues - and they were the only days off his had all year.

I agree , but common sense and isolation don't prevail , if one does then they can all do it ? Looking from the other side , how would parents react if they turned up at school and found out that a teacher was off the last 2 days of term because they had gone on holiday ? The general immediate response would be they get more holiday than most employees and now they're taking more time . I know people struggle to get time off in the workplace and people don't always get what they want , sometimes common sense and negotiation helps the situation , but you're never going to keep everyone happy and everyone's circumstances are different too . My personal view is that young children say under 10 gain a lot from being with parents and having fun experiencing new things , so being out of school in term time is perhaps less detrimental than when they are older , of course children who are older also benefit from family time and holidays just as much but there is more emphasis on exams and not missing out on education . I know from colleagues at work that they are paying about double the holiday costs during school holidays time and I understand how unfair that must feel . I think the judge was right though in saying that heads should decide about time off rather than parents , by all means discuss the situation , but the heads decision is final .

Even if the court had found in favour of the father it would not have solved the problem. Prices will always rise when demand goes up and the media love to play the profiteering card when reporting on this, of course it is the TOs to blame they say, ignoring the fact the same applies to holidays here in the UK. Prices rise along with demand.

And I think that sometimes parents who take their kids out of school during term time underestimate the effects on the kids who have been there all the time. If a teacher is going over old ground to help others catch up then the others are going to be held back. OK, I come from a family with lots of teachers in it so I'm hardly impartial! But I can't help feeling that if this family could afford to go to Florida then they could afford to pay the £120 fine for the unauthorised absence out of the money they were saving by going away in term time! And that was what it was all about - it wasn't as if the father was under threat of going to jail for persistent truancy etc.

I used to take my son out of school for holidays, it was allowed then. Apart from being a lot cheaper it was also cooler. July & August were always far too hot for us, as a family.

We also taught him the basics of the language, hello, please, thank you etc.

I do feel some children could miss out on experiencing travelling abroad if they have to stick to out of term time when prices soar. Even holidaying in the UK is expensive during this period, a week in a local caravan park can cost a fortune.

I don't think there is any doubt that the father was in a sound financial position to pay the fine, but he obviously didn't agree with the interpretation of the ambiguous law, whereby it stated that your child has to attend school regularly... How do you define regularly? 80%, 90%. 92% 99% attendance?

In his case, I think his daughter had an attendance record of 92%, which he interpreted to be regular and therefore he wasn't breaking the law, which in turn became a matter of principle and the beginning of his personal crusade.
I haven't looked, however I believe that the wording of the law has now been changed to close what the Government regarded as a loop-hole.

When this subject comes up, I sit here and wonder how my generation managed to become nurses, doctors, policemen, lawyers, accountants, surveyors and bank managers, etc, when there were none of these rules and if you were away from school for long periods, your parents might get a visit from the school bobby ( the school inspector.)

Officially I left school at 15, but I never went to school after 14 and a half years old, because I had to look after my mother who was very ill and bedridden, and I had to very quickly learn how to cook to put a dinner on the table for when my father and brother came home from work down the pit. We had a visit from the school bobby, who assessed the situation and that was the end of it.

I took my boys out of school until the time when they were leading up to their 0'levels.....I had no choice really because working in the NHS only 2 members of staff were allowed to be on holiday at any given time, and it didn't matter whether you worked on the wards or in the community....... And there always existed a pecking order.......higher qualified staff always seem to know in advance of their children's school holiday dates and get their names in the book first.

Tbh, every year it was a 'fight' to get holidays when the schools were closed and then we had to hope that my husband could also get the same weeks and we could go away as a family. So today, I'd get my shackles up at any thought of being dictated to by a politician or head teacher about when I could go away.
It doesn't seem to have done my kids any harm as they both finished their education with a bucketful of qualifications and have gone onto better things.
I'm not saying that I agree with children having a poor school attendance, and I also think that leaving the decision to the head teacher is a postcode lottery.

Sanji x

Private schools are exempt from this fine. Does anyone know why?

Precisely because they are private schools and are putside the regulatory system that governs policy and practice in local authority schools. For example, they are not required to be inspected by OFSTED - they can request one but most use the Independent Schools Inspectorate which is a private limited company and not a Government agency. They don't have to follow the National Curriculum either. Most are registered as either companies (ie businesses) or charities and this places them outside the control of local authorities and central government control systems for government funded schools. And unlike children's homes or state boarding schools for children with eg disabilities, most of them are not required to register with the Quality Care Commission either which inspects children's homes and other placees where children are looked after because the children do not live there for more than 295 days per year. In other words they only have to register if the annual holidays add up to less than 10 weeks. To be honest, the lack of accountability other than to their customers voting with their feet would worry me about sending a child to one.

Thanks SMa, I never knew that 😱 Could be quite worrying.

I'm racking my brains now as am sure there was something on TV the other week about a private school where no one was qualified. I was busy though so only had half an ear cocked. 😠

Glynis, I'd be surprised if there was only one! Unlike people employed as teachers in the state system, teachers in private schools don't have to have qualified teacher status (QTS) ie be registered with the relevant General Teaching Council and to be registered you have to have either a BEd or be a graduate with a PGCE. The situation is changing in Scotland because the Scottish Parliament is making it compulsory for all teachers in private schools to also be registered with the Scottish GTC. At the time they were proposing the legislation in 2015, there were over 700 people working as teachers in private schools who weren't registered. They did say that this didn't mean that they all had no qualifications and that there might be be some who were qualified but weren't registered because it wasn't a requirement. But either way, allowing people to work as teachers in private schools without this sort of professional registration is bit like saying that if you only practice in private medicine then you as a docter you don't need to register with the General Medical Council!

Madness 😳

We've strayed off topic a bit, Glynis, but I do agree - the lack of regulation of the private school sector is madness. They aren't exempt from having to carry out criminal record checks on all staff that have contact with under 16s but you can't be struck off the professional register (the easiest way of ensuring that someone who has failed the checks doesn't get to work in a school) if you were never on it in the first place! And by the way, I bet that few parents who employ a private tutor to give their kids some extra tuition for exams realise that they are not required to go through any sort of criminal record check unless they also work in the state school sector. My advice to parents thinking of employing one would be to only employ a private tutor who is registered with the relevant GTC and even better is already working in a state school. They will then have the reassurance that the tutor has been through the standard checks.

Going back to the original question, just because a child is at the start of school doesn't necessarily mean that missing school doesn't matter. One of my friends took her child out for 3 weeks a couple of months after he started school and he missed so much of the basic foundations that the rest of his schooling will be built on. They learn so many of their phonics and numbers at that stage and can't move on until they have caught up with what they have missed. This means that the teacher has to take time out from teaching the rest of the class to catch this individual child up. If every family took their child out at a different time during term you have a recipe for chaos and no one will learn anything fast so I can see why term-time holidays need to be the exception rather than the rule.
Part of the problem is that we have, as a society, come to associate holidays with sun and entertainment, which cost. A family I know needed a holiday (the mum had been ill for many months) but didn't have the money. They borrowed some camping equipment and found a basic campsite which cost them a few pounds a night. They had a fantastic time cycling and exploring the local beaches and for several years the children talked about that holiday when a holiday to the Med was long forgotten.

Good point Elaine , and you highlight the point of the effect it has on other children if a teacher is helping someone to catch up , you can imagine if you have 3 or 4 children off here and there at different times during term time it must have an effect . And of course the basics you learn at an early age are with you everyday and used throughout life and will affect your future . About regulation of schools isn't the DfE fully responsible for the regulation of inspections and their setup ? Are other inspectorates other than OFSTED accountable to the Secretary of State , and have to report their findings ? Are they profit making / non profit making , and do they have a governance policy to ensure children's welfare is important ?

Andy Re the DfE and regulation the answer is - only as far as state funded schools in England are concerned. OFSTED has the right to go in and inspect any state funded school but not private schools. Some private schools do invite them in but most don't and the ISI which most of them use for their inspections isn't answerable to the Secretary of State for Education though it has to report to them any serious concerns it has to the DfE and OFSTED but that is in many ways no greater than what would be expected of any private citizen It's a private limited company that as far as I can tell is not a charity. It in effect is a system of self-refulation with very little outside oversight. It also has a commercial subsidiary that offers consultancy and advisory services to private schools for a fee - I would have thought that there was a potential strong conflict of interest there in both directions. Are they likely to fail a school that has also employed their commercial subsidiary to advise it? Are they possibly going to report adversely on a school in order to later sell it consultancy services telling it how it can improve? However, in Scotland private schools are subject to exactly the same inspection regime as state schools and all schools up here are still inspected by Her Majesty's Inspectorate for Education. In other words by HMIs directly employed by the Education Department of the Scottish Government.

The regulation of the welfare of children in private schools is done by the Care Quality Commission (they report to the Dept of Health) but only in relation to boarders and only if the children are boarding for more than 42 weeks per year in which case they have to register as and be inspected under the regulations for children's homes. But only a few private schools, usually those run by charities for children with severe learning and/or physical disabilities, fall into that category and 6 weeks holiday over the summer plus 2 at Christmas and 2 at Easter means that they can stay outside of the CQC inspection system even without half term holidays. Of course if a parent or someone else makes a complaint about the care then it will be investigated, usually by the local social services and/or the police depending on the nature of the complaint but they aren't subject to the regular inspections that state boarding schools and children's homes regardless of who runs them.

I have always found it strange that all institutions/homes in England providing residential care for adults, regardless of whether they are run by the local authorities, private businesses or charities are subject to a very rigorous inspection system every 3 years, as well as unannounced visits if there are concerns, and can be closed down if they don't meet the required standards but private schools where the children may spend months at a time in their care aren't covered by the same regulatory framework. I'm not saying that children in private schools are at greater risk but that such schools aren't subject to as much or the same level of oversight as state schools and hence the chance of failings in both the educational and welfare provision being detected quickly are higher in my opinion.

i totally agree , people have always blamed the tour operators for hiking up prices but if you think of it its not entirely true .Its to dop with demand.Holidays will always be more expensive when for instance the holiday resorts are up and running to full capacity . Would they want to take kids on Holiday if the theme parks or swimming pools were not open ....

Prices go up when demand is high - Of course it is not only the TOs at fault here. We go on holiday to Spain etc and what do we find (surprise surprise) the place is full of foreigners on holiday. That's why all the hotels are full and prices have gone up.
Prices would be even higher if these holiday destinations only operated at these peak times. For years parents have taken kids out of school supposedly to avoid the peak period charges. In some cases that is true but the system has been abused by many and the so called 10 day discretion has often been more like 20 in some cases.
It is not only the summer holidays that education gets in the way of, there are the Ski trips (cheaper than those organised by schools) trips to Lapland and many other reasons, and of course the age old excuse "they are of educational value" but perhaps we might be more convinced if schools actually spent more time on educating kids than finding other things to do.
From personal observation in many schools December is a time for parties, Christmas fairs and nativity plays so little gets done. the last 2/3 weeks before the summer holidays being fun times with trips off and games.

Everyone with school aged children (barring private schools 😉 ) have 6 weeks in order to take their children on holiday. So they are effectively all dashing to book their places. Supply & demand, prices rocket. Hence it being cheaper, to fly from Scotland at certain times (& vice versa) as their school holiday dates are slightly different.

School holidays here in Germany are staggered, some states will start their main summer holiday in early June others in late July so in some states the children will be back at school almost before other states start their holidays and although the prices of holidays are higher in the months of June, July and August, peak prices usually only apply in the states where the schools have broken up. It's often just a case of travelling an extra 50 miles or so to an airport in another state to obtain lower prices, somewhat similar to Glynis' post about Scotland.

I did take my 16yr old niece with me to Thailand in 1996 which meant her taking the first 5 days out of school after the Christmas break. The headmaster at her school willingly gave consent, it wasn't a beach holiday ( I rarely do beaches) although we did spend a few days at the beach at the end of the trip where I remember her sitting under an umbrella catching up on the school work that she had been set and practising the 10 words of Thai that she had set herself to learn daily. As well as a holiday it was a very educational trip, I remember her reaction to seeing the long necked Padaung women in northern Thailand and being told that the lush green bushes growing at the edge of one of the villages we visited were Cannabis plants, also her sadness when she came face to face with real poverty for the first time and her anger when seeing middle aged European men taking girls younger than her into hotels. Experiences never to be forgotten.