Try this for some help

http://www.laymyhat.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3

Thats a very useful site Peter, thanks.

I moved to Alsace 13 years ago for my husband's job - he had been made redundant in the UK and this was our chance to start again.

So what are the pitfalls?

How much do you know about yourself? How much do you like yourself? How much are you prepared to face new challenges without the safety nets you have been used to in the UK? You will have to be very self-reliant, and be honest and ask for help more often than you are used to. You will have to accept your mistakes, some humiliation, a great deal of frustration and forgive yourself when you feel you have let yourself down.

You will have to realise that nearly all - if not all - your previous knowledge of life and 'dealing with the system' is useless, and you will have to start again from the very beginning. In this part of France, you often have to fill in forms with your surname first, and my 11 year old son had to learn to write in the French version of joined-up style, rather than his natural English style. Even the alphabet has 6 vowels (a e i o u y)!!

You have to face life each day with a smile and a 'bonjour' - it's very important to adapt to the local way of living (here every shop closes for lunch between 12 and 2), and if you can't speak French, use your hands and imagination and sign up for classes as soon as possible.

The health system is different. Not old-fashioned or inefficient, just DIFFERENT.

The education system is different. Children who do not do sufficiently well during the year stay for another year in the same class. Teaching styles are much more formal, school hours are longer and not all schools follow a 4 day week. Things are DIFFERENT.

I guess I'm trying to say that it is too easy to compare the systems in terms of your previous experience. It doesn't help the actual 'here and now'. Just makes you miserable. It's important to be open-minded.

Your favourite recipe may not work here even if the ingredients are the same (according to the label on the shelves), and you may find yourself missing certain foods and dishes .... OH for an Indian takeaway, or even an Indian restaurant .................

The friends you leave behind will never really enter into your lifestyle. They think because you are here that you are on permanent holiday. No such luck - you have to do the supermarket checkout queue just like them and wash and clean and ..... Even when you meet up, they will not understand how you live and show limited or no interest. (They can't because they haven't experienced the day to day life for themselves.)

You can only take part in a limited measure in local and national politics - you can only vote in European elections, for your local mayor and that's it.

Lots of important positions in the community seem to be run by the same individual or members of particular families.

At first you seem to be drowning under all the red tape - needing to show loads of documents before you can even have a library ticket!

All your familiar TV and radio programmes disappear and you feel out of touch ...................

If you have any skeletons in your cupboards, they won't go away because you've left the UK - they follow doggedly on your trail.

You have to pay tax on both your English income (interest, dividend warrants etc) and your French income .... AND as there's no PAYE system, and for the first couple of years you have to pay it all in one go, you can have real financial hardships if you do not budget accordingly.

It seems to take forever to make small breakthroughs in your language skills or coping skills - but it DOES happen. Don't give up.

These are most of the negative things that might happen. But there are so many good and positive things to living in France, if you are prepared to really work to make yourself integrate. It's a poor life if you spend your time here in an English ghetto (and they DO exist!!).

Talk talk talk to your family and partner before you come and when you are here. Don't let possible worries become overwhelming. Try to avoid French-bashing ... it may not be England, but that's why you came here! There is always help available if you can humble yourself to seek it.

Sorry if that sounds rather harsh, but folk are not mindreaders and you will need to show and say that you have a problem if you want to solve it.

It is not unusual to go through various emotional stages after a move to another country and culture. I wish someone had told me about this before I came: 'Culture Shock -France' was a book that dealt a lot with moving to Paris but helped me greatly with this aspect of moving, and you should give yourself at least a full year in your new home to see how local life changes with the seasons.

Prepare for your move and live life to the full once you get here - but don't be afraid to ask for help! Now I certainly wouldn't live anywhere else!

What can I say, Alsacienne! Except a massive thanks for taking so much time to give such a detailed reply.
It sounds even more daunting than I imagined! And if we moved out we would probably be retired so there wouldn't be the chance to interact with work colleagues and develop an understanding or make contacts that way. And I agree , an english speaking ghetto would defeat the whole purpose of the exercise, but I can understand why some people feel safe/safer in such an environment.
My ideal would to develop friendships/or even simply to be able to interact with the French in some way. I am very self reliant, but don't like to be isolated and that would be a big fear.
I suppose when I view retirement I would love to have a challenge and a move to France, a country where I feel very at home, would add an extra dimension to my life. If I could afford it, the best solution would be to keep a pied a terre here & have somewhere in france & divide my time between the two, but I don't think I could afford that.
It's not alway easy to find out about the downside and I appreciate your honesty. Certainly food for thought!
{Posted reply to you on France forum before I read this!!}

Thanks Peter for that link. Some useful info to be gleaned there!

History between the French and British, going back centuries and even today within the EU does not make for great chemistry, infact there is no love lost. Sorry to be so real but I am entitled to express my opinion.

The French are not too keen on us. Of all the places in the world you could retire to, France would not even make my 'if all else fails list'.

Banning French wine and cheese as an import to Britain would be a good start. Stuart

Are there any upsides to buying a property in France? Stuart

My sister is English and so is her husband. they moved to France about 14 years ago. They are just south of Claremont Ferrand. Very few people speak English in their area. There children were just toddlers when they went over. They all now speak fluent French and are totally accepted by their neighbours and friends. they were prepared to intigrate and that is the nub of the problem methinks. I wont say there arent problems. Once when we went over my brother went to buy a hamburger, and although he was first in the que, they just ignored him. My sister went over to see why, and there was an almighty row, with the frenchman accusing us [English] of burning Joan of Arc. My sister mentioned the second world war, and we basically told em to get stuffed. However most of the people in that area are simply charming and treat you like long lost friends.

Hi Mick, I am sure most peace loving French are absolutely fine but unfortunately too many are not. Your example shows how small minded and pathetic people can be in snubbing your relatives and treating them so appallingly. Have we ever had a word of thanks for saving France with the US from being taken by the Germans? No. Why not? All this French style and cuisine being so good is rubbish snobbishness. There are words to describe the French but not for this forum. I certainly will not venture on their land and their appalling loos when I can easily fly to Switzerland where they know how to respect all people. Stuart

The point I'm trying to make Stuart is that the French are like anyone else. Or at least most of them are. If you are prepared to mix in, you will get on fine. Its the same here, we view with suspision anyone who does not intigrate. And if you think about it thousands of brits are going over to France and buying land and property. imagine if it was the other way round. I accept though that sometimes things go wrong and it just dosn't work out. I myslef would not buy in France but that is for different reasons. Mind you if I was, I'd spend weeks going out there and researching.

Stuart, attitudes like yours do not help the historically poor relations between France and the UK. Yes there are some loony folk who bring up Joan of Arc ... at least they are sufficiently well educated to remember her - how many English folk would? - and as for WW2 (and WW1) surely it is time to put this behind you. There are new generations growing up in all countries concerned - are you really willing to perpetuate 'the sins of the fathers' on these youngsters?

Here in Alsace, the French are most grateful to the US who liberated them, and are happy to have them and us Brits living amongst them. It is SO important to try to integrate and adapt to their way of life, if you want to settle here. And that applies ANYWHERE you go.

I accept that you are entitled to your opinion, but hope that you are mature enough to reconsider your views occasionally and update them. This world has far too many troubles of its own without our adding to them.

All this French style and cuisine being so good is rubbish snobbishness

I certainly will not venture on their land and their appalling loos when I can easily fly to Switzerland where they know how to respect all people.

Perhaps it's time for you to take a long hard look at yourself - and consider, with the views you hold, whether you are worthy of other people's respect.

Bit of a contradiction dear. You said 'at least they are sufficiently well educated to remember her - how many English folk would? - and as for WW2 (and WW1) surely it is time to put this behind you.'

First you insult British intelligence for forgetting something in the far back history like Joan of Arc - justifying the stupid french persons remark and then say forget the dead British people who died for you and me and British and French and werwe our parents and grand[parents and - put it behind you like. I wonder if the Jews should put behind them the 6 million of them who died? It wasnt a bad day at some horrible French restaurant that night never have been for our troops - it was a world disastrous war.

Anyway go and enjoy your Lescargot nonsense, bonjour! Stuart

OK you have guessed I am no fan of France or the French. However they are fellow humans and if you feel a closer association to them than I do then really I wish you all the best!! We are all different and I guess that is what makes the world go round. Of course the have lovely people and less lovely people - just like here and everywhere. I won't say anymore on the subject now. God Bless. Stuart

Stuart this is a holiday forum. It is not for the airing of political or religious views or opinions.

Please take your soap box elsewhere to vent your apparent displeasure at all things French.

Stuart H .... perhaps you may like to familiarise yourself with the Terms & Conditions of posting at Holidaytruths.

David HT Mod

Sorry David the Moderator, I overstepped the mark and will not do so again. Apologies again. Stuart

"... when I can easily fly to Switzerland where they know how to respect all people. Stuart"
Sure they know how to respect all people, especially during the world wars...Staying neutral, is it a proof of respect towards "all people"?
A french "lescargot(?)" eater.

PS: Sorry David, that was the only and last one!

He He Do, good if we can laugh. I hear what you are saying! As you say lets leave it!! All the best. Stuart