Coud'nt agree more!! Alan

Whilst I agree with a lot of what V M De Malar says, I really do take exception to his comment:

Charter tourists care not about atmosphere, and are especially allergic to culture.

We've been on charter flights to lots of different places, including Turkey, Greece, Italy, Tunisia, Egypt, Sri Lanka, Mexico and Cuba and have chosen to go to these places SPECIFICALLY because wanted to experience different cultures.

We always respect the customs and beliefs of whatever country we happen to be in and actively seek out restaurants that we think will give us traditional local food.

Not everyone is of the 'I want to watch football on a big screen and have an English Breakfast' mindset.
I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with watching football on a big screen (we do this at the weekend here in the UK) or having a fry-up (we sometimes have one at home), but for us, going abroad is about experiencing something different.

Polly

There are alwys exceptions to the rule. The author was making general comments which are probably all well thought out and , sadly, correct.

Mind you, I fear it is all too late to corect it all.

I wonder where the next unspoilt region is around the World..................

Pedrogooner

If Mr de Malar had said either SOME or MOST
Charter tourists care not about atmosphere, and are especially allergic to culture,
then I would agree with you that he was making general comments, but in my view, his wording lumps ALL charter tourists together as 'allergic to culture'.

He also mentions Goa's 'world-class heritage infrastructure'.
We certainly do not choose to visit Goa for its heritage.
We would choose a Nile Cruise, Mexico or Sri Lanka, all of which are charter destinations, if we wanted heritage.

We choose Goa for a relaxing beach holiday, with good food and lovely people, whom I would hope do not all share Mr de Malar's view of charter tourists.

Polly

This only goes to show that people are the same all over the world. Whats the difference between Mr de Malar and Mr Angry of Purley.
Of course tourism brings positive and negative effects. At least the no frills bed & brekfast residents bring wealth to the local community. I fear that the type of development the article writer would have liked to see would just bring wealth to the few. I like the non organised nature of development in Northern Goa. A bit of anarchy never hurt anyone. Southern Goa with its large hotels seems too structured. I don't think I'll take the article too seriously. Tell the guy to open a cold bottle of Kingfisher and chill out on the beach.

I must agree with Mr De Malar on his generalisation of the tourists that are going to Goa. I first went there in 1992 and I certainly was not the first Brirish tourist to visit. When we first visited you could go down the road fron Calangute to Candolim and had to swerve to avoid the chilie mats which were out in the road. It was a quite village in those days with very few restaraunts or hotels. We have been on boat trips when the local people have been pulling in the fishing nets and have stopped to wave at the foreigners and shout hello. We have made long lasting friends with local people and still keep in touch today with 2 familys that we met in 1992. Over the years we have stayed in hotels , private rentals, tents at Palolem ( there were no huts then ) and beach huts at several locations. When we first went to Baga we could stand on the beach near the river and look down to Fort Aguada and not see 1 beach shack or sunbed. That was Goa as it used to be before the mass tourist influx and all the side effects that that brings. Our first trip was by charter and we stayed in a tourist hotel provided by the travel company and so did not do the local economy much good at all. All our other trips we have just been on a flight only and have booked our hotel with a Goan family so that the money goes into the local economy. If you read some of the posts on here from people who go all inclusive or the people who just go to chill and do not see any culture, and bear in mind this is a very small percentage of the people that go to Goa then I think that you can understand Mr De Malar and his concerns. Bye the way Goa has now been spoiled for us and our last and final visit was inDecember 2004. B

Although I agree in general with Mr De Melar mainly due to the fact that he is a local resident and entitled to his opinion.
I am unsure of the point that 'Mr Travelingtheworld' was making. We all have our memories of when we first visit a place. If we want to safeguard those memories then we should never return to the place.

I first went to Goa in 1978 and still love the place regardless of the changes etc. OK, I was a bit shocked by some changes. Should I blame Mr Travelingtheworld' for the changes in 1992. I can assure him that it was a lot different in 1978.

Changes were bound to happen. I stayed with a local family when I first went. there were virtually no restaurants etc. Nowadays there are superb restaurants, nice hotels, places to visit etc. We should be grateful for that.

If Mr Travelingtheworld wants places as they used to be back in his days then he should not go to Goa. Those places are still out there.

I typed in a long answer to this one and just lost it( was told to log in again! ) The jist of it was that we have gone down this road countless other times - just do a search! ( put in Costa and del and Goa). We are regurgitating the same arguments and going round the same circles. Goa has changed. Every tourist who goes there is responsible for it. The very worst offenders were the ones who found it in the first place!
I'll allow this one to run a little longer. Just don't get into heated arguments with anyone who doesn't have the same opinion as you- remember its Sunday!

I cannot help thinking that Goa will become like a lot of holiday destinations. They become 'the' place to go and after a few years people move on. I seem to remember that in the 80's, Gambia was the place to go and it has been a long time since anyone I have met has mentioned they have been there for a holiday.

I noticed this year while we were having our 6th holiday in Goa, there were fewer people staying at our hotel. I can't speak of course for other hotels in the area.

As far as I am concerned I will continue to go to Goa whether it is busy or quiet. I have the Goa bug and am happy to have it.

Sorry Fiona, I'm one of the old hands, but I'l try not to go over old ground. I think the problem will be resolved by the big holiday companies themselves who by the look of the prices they are trying to get in Goa next season year will surely get their fingers burnt Some of the prices for what is very basic accomodation when compared with what you would pay to go to the likes of Malaysia or Thialand, flying scheduled and staying in 4 star accomodation, dont look so attractive in comparison It,s very cheap as well to eat out etc. there. I love Goa and will continue to visit at least twice a year but no way would I pay some of the prices the big operators are asking and I suspect a lot of first timers will not return either when they see what they get for the money as far as the charter flights and hotel accomodation go Alan

I'm interested in finding out if most hotels have been completely taken over by charter companies. I am having great difficulty finding a variety of hotels to look at. Obviously some hotels do have their own websites. I have asked in a separate thread who people use to book hotels through- loads of views but no answers. Now I know people love to help on this forum so I'm taking it my question was difficult to answer! I almost always go DIY but this is causing me the most problems- my usual problem is TOO MUCH info! So have charter companies taken over Goa?

I don't think the Charter Companies have taken over the North Goa Hotels - places like the Kamat are a mix of Charter, Indian Tourist and Non Resident Indian Tourists and there are alot like them.
The people who are taking over North Goa are the European "6 Monthers" and apartment owners who are now given more choice by Airlines flying through Mumbai who now have flights which are almost non-stop - by which I mean we no longer have to wait for hours in Mumbai or somewhere in the Middle East in each direction.
I think the Hotel trade will suffer as more and more people arrange holidays for themselves and some Hotels now advertise vacancies outside the door like guest houses do!!
IMO the Charters are going to outprice themselves this coming season and the Hotels will be looking for private guests to fill their rooms.

I would say most hotels do not have there own websites (yet) so they are a mix of tour operated/walk in in travellers. Quite a few private places around also,leaving it up to the 'viewer' to look and book. Also a lot of 'word by mouth' places to look into (which we did).
All new-comers who do not access sites like these will never know - other than picking info up from brochures - we have spoke to people who have advised friends when they were booking to ask for info -did they?,no!!
1st timers who go all-inclusive seem to have good browse around bars restaurants etc and then the year after will not go all.inc again - says it all really !!
As for the original 'link' to the post,what does this guy want ? to stop all tourists coming in - fine do it, will the rest of India help these people make a good living (like the many rich Indians who do no want to put there money in to Goa - but invest in the rest of the world) - somehow I think not. Goa - as many from the 60's / 70's who escaped Europe was nothing but a hideaway to get-away/live for nothing/eat cheap/drink cheap/drugs in abundance (don't have a go here because you know it's what was going on) all these things are still happening and growing every year and making the lives of the Goan people better(except the drugs). Myself and many others put our money in to Goa every year and will continue to do so.
There are many issues discussed by the tourism minister (who just wants to keep pumping tourists in) but does not/will not take up any of the issues that locals/tourists complain about - sewerage/electricity/garbage disposal/airports/roads,many many things that will never be sorted (talks and money do not mix).
So back to the original post -what does this guy want ? - someone please explain.
Fiona - good of you not to close this thread,keep it running - makes good reading.

I cant help thinking that Mr de Malar has completely lost the plot, has he never traveled ? does he think no other country has tourists ? are we to take the blame for the rubbish in their streets and every other problem they have
the only ones that i saw dropping rubbish was the locals, I think the only nail he hit on the head while he was wielding his hammer was the corruption, if the officials sorted out the problems instead of trying to line their own pockets things might be better. As a first timer I loved Goa and the Goan people and made lots of local friends and will be going again.
I am sorry if my presents swells the ranks of tourists and that there will be more than one set of foot prints on the pristine beach. As for Brits in Goa
I think we might be just a tad out numbered by the Indians in the UK

Rant over, had a fantastic time will try to give a full report as soon as pos.

As other have pointed out, what does Mr de Malar want?

I did notice the hotels advertising "rooms to let" all prices negotiable of course as everything is in Goa, the all inclusive hotels wont last long because of the buffet meals = Gandhi's revenge as other hot climates have found to their cost, all inclusive works well in Spain, Portugal and Jamaica to name but a few, but food and booze is so variable and good in Goa, so why eat from a buffet table? Drink only local booze or pay extra, at a bar that closes at 11pm?

Goa has become the long haul choice of many people for many reasons and will remain so for many years to come Mr de Malar will have to "get over it"

Lez

I'm interested in finding out if most hotels have been completely taken over by charter companies.

There were quite a lot of Indian tourists at the Phoenix Park while we were there and packed when we left so not totally taken over.

Alan

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