as this is not holiday .. i have moved to general enq.

wizard

I have yet to meet an ordinary German or Irishman/woman who thinks the Euro is a good thing. Most of my French friends have wanted the Franc back for a long time.

A question that really needs debating but not sure HT is the place.
There are however serious implications for HT members when deciding on holiday destinations for next year. If the so called rescue package does not happen or Greece decides to exit the Euro what implications could this have?
Are we to see hotels closing if Greece decends in even more financial chaos. The holiday booking you make now suddenly being cancelled?
I know we are holding back on Crete for next May until there is a clearer picture.

fwh

I've got next year's greek holiday booked already. I'm not too worried about the consequences but maybe I should be I'll start worrying when we know more.

I agree with fwh - again!! I doubt whether many members know much about the Greek economy or the bail out package (other than snippets that the UK media has cobbled together). Not worth the bandwidth discussing it here.

But as he says, next year's holiday bookings are definately worth looking at here. Anyone who hands over large amounts of money now and hasn't asked serious questions about how well protected they are must be mad. But experience says that there are thousands out there that will fall into that category. So I'll make some predictions.

Sometime in the next year a Greek airline or hotel company will go bust and leave people stranded or out on the street. We will get bleating "I can't afford to lose this money" queries from people who haven't booked a bonded package or got SFC insurance.

Next summer Greece will be chaos with strikes, and possibly fuel shortages. People who have to suffer long delays will moan about it as though it had suddenly come from nowhere like the volcanic ash.

Even if nothing technically goes wrong with the holiday we'll get comments about how tatty the place is, how much graffitti and litter there is, how shops are closed down etc. etc. and how suprised they are that it isn't like it was 5 years ago.

If next year you find yourself in any of those categories, don't come to me for sympathy! Check your bonding/insurance cover before you hand money over. Check how stable the airline is. Check how far down the chain your money will go before departure day. If the TO can't/won't answer then walk away.

Seeing as you think it's not the place in here to discuss it, even though the title of the thread was not holiday related in the first place, but it was allowed to stand about the Greek referendum, I've deleted my post and maybe we can go back to discussing such important issues such as how big my suitcase should be or should I get excited before I go on holiday.
Happy now ?

Sanji,
I thought your post was well thought out and balanced. Not sure why this is 'not the place to discuss it'.

Hopefully, I've looked into it enough not to lose out financially. I've booked our flights through Easyjet with a credit card and I've only paid a deposit to the hotel with the balance not becoming available until we arrive

I obviously don't want to lose the holiday but hopefully it the worse comes to the worse I won't lose money. Don't fancy the thought of potential airport strikes either

It's a big, & complicated, subject to cover on here, you are right, a lot more involved than the snippets you get in the UK press.
The bottom line is that the future, for the Greeks, is very uncertain at the moment. Many have a 40-60% cut in salary, along with higher taxes & higher prices. There is a new property tax that can't be avoided or delayed, it is part of the electricity bill & you get cut off for non payment. Received my first bill with this on last week.
A few points though, you would be wise to pay where possible by credit card & for those booking independently only pay a small deposit like Shirley has done, better still book with someone like booking.com or venere.com for your accommodation, most deals are no deposit & pay at the end of your stay, with good cancellation options too.
Tourism is a major factor in the Greek economy, so holidays will still be there, in whatever currency, but don't expect any large expenditure on refurbishment in the near future, those that intended work done over winter will be delaying it now! Essentials/basics only will be done at most places.
A last note, I have serious doubts the referendum will go ahead, it has to get enough votes in parliament to be set up, & even if there was one (or several), rest assured they will be carefully worded so they get the outcome they want!

Perhaps if Greek populace had paid a reasonable amount of income tax and national insurance in the first instance like the rest of us have to they wouldn't be in the mess they are in to day.

Not blaming the Greeks on the street, perhaps their govennment and politicians should have ensured they had a fair and equitable processes in place. Everything has to be paid for especially public services it doesn't all come out of thin air (or mythical Euro budgets funded by the four or five 'so called' rich countrys that are left in the mess, whoops I mean the EU).

Doe

Perhaps if Greek populace had paid a reasonable amount of income tax and national insurance in the first instance like the rest of us have to they wouldn't be in the mess they are in to day.

While I agree that tax dodging has always been a national sport please be careful of what you say (or what you believe of what the media tells you), the hardest hit with wage cuts etc included in the austerity packages so far, are the ones on a salary where tax is taken at source, same as the UK.
National Insurance is nothing like the UK, there is not one health service contribution for all, but lots of different ones , depending on what sector you work in, 2 of the largest being IKA & OGA, both doing ok, although some smaller ones are in trouble.

I haven't read anything in the UK press and I think it is the moderators jobs to decide on if what I say is appropriate. I am suprised this thread has been allowed

Presumably Greek people want Doctors, Hospitals, Clinics, Education for their Children, Decent roads, Road signage, Public Ferries to and from islands to get essential services, fire services, Ambulances, Police Services, Refuse Collection etc etc ad nauseum - it all has to be paid for.

A Country that in your own words has made 'tax avoidance a national sport' has really only got itself to blame.

I wasn't arguing with you, nor 'moderating' your post, just pointing out something that would hurt many Greeks as a sweeping statement on all of them, as in any situation there are many that have paid their dues & in no way contributed to today's crisis. Same as in the UK, people are paid cash in hand for jobs, no receipts issued, no tax paid on that, it happens the world over, but the type of jobs, especially seasonal, offer more opportunity for it in Greece. Many won't be dodging their tax now, they're unemployed, nor paying property tax, they're homeless. I'm not saying that no Greeks have done anything wrong (well, maybe I will say the politicians have, again, same as anywhere), but the EU & IMF have not handled it well.
As I said in my first post on this thread, there is so much more to it, starting with the fact that only 8% of the debt owed was ever borrowed as 'fresh capital', the rest is all interest, & loans to pay the interest. The ordinary man in the street is hurting, suffering, & in despair for their country's future.
There is a lot more that would enlighten some people, but it's not the place to discuss the details, I only posted originally for those thinking about whether it's an option to holiday here next year, whether to wait & book, how to pay etc.

I've booked a cheap flight with EJ to Corfu, and paid a small deposit on established accommodation(not that, that makes any difference) I've paid for everything by Credit Card. I also have what I think is appropriate insurance in place.

Seems like you've done the right things Helen! I would advocate good insurance wherever you are going (forgot to mention that previously), it's surprising how many people still don't get any, & some that do don't check what it covers.
I hope you have a great time!

Shoulnt we also be looking at the bigger picture, whats going to happen to europe if greece pull out of the Euro, and there just not Greece to worry about

We Know of Greece followed closely by, Italy, Portugal, Ireland,

HT is a friendly site where we discuss holidays. As Athensfan says there is far more to this.
My comment was not meant in any way to stifle discussion but to be fair with the Moderators the topic can easily expand into a discussion about the EU and the various points of view on that. A very emotive topic which is better discussed on other forums. It would be unfair to the Mods to put them in the position where they would have to intervene. I agree that Spain, Italy, Portugal, Ireland and other are also caught up in this and it could quickly spread to them.
Of course those members of HT who read the posts in this particular topic have already been given good advice.Something that HT is renowned for. Pay by CC and make sure you have got insurance. No doubt if things do go wrong then we shall have plenty of posts from people who have been caught out as Steve8482 has said.

fwh

HT is a friendly site where we discuss holidays.

HT is its own worse enemy at times, and I despair when there is a topic in which others feel they have the ‘mod' status to intervene and tell other adult posters what they assume they have read or don't know about the situation.

The topic had been moved from the Greece forum by a moderator into General for the reason it was (not holiday), but maybe he had the foresight to see that the title of the thread would encourage a wider debate on the situation?.

as this is not holiday .. i have moved to general enq.

The moderator allowed it to stand, I presume to encourage discussion, otherwise the thread would have not seen the light of day, so why don't we let him decide whether the discussions that may follow are appropriate or not.?
Never mind, eh? Between you, you've managed to kill a decent thread again and just as a reminder, the thread was entitled, The Greek Referendum.!

No wonder folks don't bother replying in here, there's too many people making assumptions.

Sanji