hello,
sorry to hear you news.
we had booked for next july and we read alot of reports that the hotel was not a 3* but a 2*.
this was not classed as a major change so i paid £80 to change the holiday asi know we wouldn't be happy.
we are now going to the dom rep instead for about £200 more but i know it will be worth changing.
have a back up hotel to go to just incase they wont refund the deposit.

Hi the seeds,

Thanks for your reply,

Did you just read reports about the Hotel or did the T/O make the change? as we have actually had a letter from them stating that they have lowered the rating and in my eyes that is a major change to what we booked...but we all know that what we (the customer) think and what They (T/O) can be totally different

Katy xx

hi,
we read the reports, the reps was stating it was a two key rating and f/c was saying a 3*.
also there was a question of the bunk beds in the kids den room, some people was saying no bunk beds (my smallest wanted a bunk bed).
when you are paying £3000 for a holiday you want it to be perfect.
read the reviews (club caleta in fuerteventura). the more i read the more naffed off i got, so i changed.
good luck, let us know how you get on.

Hi Katy,

I most definitely think this is a major or significant change to the holiday, as in Schedule 1 of the Package Holiday Regulations the classifications of hotels must be stated in the brochure and are obviously something you bear in mind when choosing a hotel.

If you wanted to book a 3* you'd have done so, and have they mentioned a price adjustment by any chance?

They are hoping you will accept it, and I don't think you have to.

I would demand either a full refund or a change to a 4* with no alteration fee.

Get back to us if they won't play.

Peter

Hi Peter of York

Thanks for that...

They haven't offered to reduce the cost at all...in fact a few weeks back i looked at the website ( I know I shouldn't have, but hey I am human ) and realised that the price had gone down by over £500 so being a bit cheeky i e-mailed them and asked as the price had been reduced would the final balance that I have to pay reflect this !! Low and behold i got a reply saying NO, it was as expected as to be honest if they had put the price up by £500 I wouldn't have offered to pay the difference But you have to try hey!

Anyway back to the original issue... I have just got home from work and re-read the letter as it came just as I was leaving this morning... they have reduced the rating to a 3*+ (not 3* as originally posted) BUT to me this is still unaceptable...

Katy xx

Hi Katy,

You booked 4* and you ain't getting it - forget the +. Looks as if that's why they've dropped the price.

It's up to you - refund or a proper 4* of your choice. Don't let them get away with it, and any problems get back to us.

Good luck, but I'm certain the law is on your side.

Peter

I hope Peter of York is right - his posts are always sensible.

I have a feeling though that you are going to have a fight on your hands trying to get a full refund of your deposit.

The T.O. really has the upper hand here - they have your money and as time progresses you will be required to pay the final balance.

Try and find out why they've reduced the rating. If it's because of some specific loss of facility that loss would help reinforce your claim that this is indeed a significant change. Check with ABTA or ATOL to confirm your position. Maybe seek professional advice on the matter from Ros Fernihough (01922 621114).

Writing to the T.O. with facts and knowledge of the law can only help a speedy solution.

Another thought on this issue is, is it just the tour operators rating that has changed? T/O's will give their own ratings for accommodation ie 4T for Thomson as opposed to the official rating which could be 2 star.

I don't know where you would stand on this one as regards to the T/O's rating legally. I'd do as suggested and phone Ros for free advice.

Doesn't matter why it's been downgraded, a 4* was booked not a 3*.

If there is any resistance to full refund, if that is what is required, I agree that professional advice would be a good idea, either from Ros Fernihough a marvelous service to our members, or the often overlooked local Trading Standards.

Trading Standards are usually very interested in these matters and a phone from them to the travel company can work wonders.

We pay a lot of money for our holidays, and are backed by a lot of consumer law.

Peter

As Mike says, I think that first priority is to try and find out more about why the hotel has now been downgraded. And you need to decide whether what you are looking for is still to go to this same hotel but pay a reduced price that reflects the new rating or to go to a different hotel which is rated as a 4*. If you want the latter, then there is a third alternative to either getting a full refund on your deposit or losing it - the least confrontational approach and hence the one which might stand more chance of success - is to have another look at the brochures for this operator and see if they are offering another 4* hotel that you will be happier with and asking them to transfer your deposit to a booking for that holiday instead. Win-win situations stand much more chance of succeeding and this way they don't lose money because you're still booking a holiday through them, and you're still getting the 4* holiday you wanted originally. Even if there is an administrative fee to pay it might be worth it to you for peace of mind but you might find that they will waive it anyway of you are booking another holiday instead with them.

SM

Hi Katy,

If you booked and want a 4* hotel, that's what you should get. Who cares about the reasons for the downgrade, and would you really trust them to tell you the truth? Bit too late when you arrive to find someone in an office has made it all up, and very difficult to deal with at that stage. At the very least you need to have the explanation in writing.

If this travel company is an ABTA member, it gets even easier.

See the ABTA CODE OF CONDUCT

In particular -

2.2 Significant Alterations to Travel Arrangements by Principals

Appendix 1 - Clause 1.5 Item 3

CANCELLATION AND SIGNIFICANT ALTERATIONS

B 3 (ii) - a change in accommodation to that of an entirely different type;

B 4 - (ii) a change of accommodation to that of a lower category and/or price;

Which entitle the client to an alternative comparable holiday or to a full and prompt refund of all money paid and, in either case, to receive compensation which shall be in accordance with a scale of payments.

Travel companies drag things on and hope you will cave in. Go armed with a knowledge of your rights and watch them cave in.

They know the rules and law full well and hope that you don't.

Peter

Hi Katy's Clan

can you tell us what the name of the hotel is and where it is?

May be able to get you the answers you need....

thanks

If you booked and want a 4* hotel, that's what you should get. Who cares about the reasons for the downgrade,

Because it matters whether it is the hotel which has changed or the rating system. If the hotel now offers fewer facilities as a 3* than it did as a 4* that's one thing. But if either the TO or the Italian tourist office or whoever grades hotels there has revised their rating system and the facilities that used to be considered essential for a 4* rating are now what is regarded as appropriate for a 3* grading and the bar has been raised before a hotel is accepted as meeting 4* quality then that is another thing.

National rating systems vary between countries, I would expect far more of a 5* hotel here in the UK than I do of a 5* hotel as rated by the Tourist authorities in Tunisia which are much more akin to what I would expect of a more middle of the road chain hotel here such as a Hilton or Holiday Inn than the Dorchester or the Savoy. And to be fair, their prices are in a different league too. Likewise TO operators grading systems aren't always consistent with either the national system of the country concerned or those of other TOs. One always needs to check what is actually on offer and decide if that represents value for money to you because one can't always rely on any grading system to be consistent and accurate in relation to others.

A few years back the English Tourist Board changed their grading system for B&Bs because they wanted to provide an incentive for them to raise their standards and so they revised their grades. It meant that a great many B&Bs and small guesthouses were 'downgraded' at the time but it didn't mean that the facilities they offered were any worse than they had been the day before the new system was introduced to take account of visitors rising expectations with regard to eg en-suite bathrooms which is what many had to install to keep/return to their old rating. In those circumstances to expect a refund when you were going to get exactly the same facilities as were stated as being available when you booked, ie it didn't have an en-suite then and still didn't when you arrived, is a different issue to it no longer having a room with an en-suite to offer you when that is what you booked.

So, as far as I can see it really does matter whether this change has happened because the hotel now longer provides facilities of the quality and standard it once did, or because the TO has revised their grading having decided they got it wrong in the first place or because the hotel is exactly the same as it always was and it is the grading system which has changed. What consitutes a fair outcome for Katy really will depend on which of these applies.

SM

Sma,
you make some good points and present them clearly.

Peter Of York,
you present hard facts in the form of the law (well, the ABTA code of conduct at least).

I can understand Katy's concerns - there HAS to be a reason for the reduction in the star rating. This may result from a decline in facilities/services, it may result for a simple re-grading process that's affected many other hotels, it may be a simple re-positioning exercise on the part of the tour op. to lower the rates (using the lower rating as justification) and perhaps obtain further business. The t. op. might be commited to taking a certain number of rooms and just wasn't selling them at the price level for the 4*.

Who knows ?

The tour op. does.

I believe Katy is no longer getting the 4* product she paid for and booked. New bookers are getting a 3* that's a fact.

Peter of York's rule list is clear - particularly

B 4 - (ii) a change of accommodation to that of a lower category and/or price;

A full refund option should have been offered by the t.op. with the notification letter. She shouldn't need to fight for this option.

My opinion of course. Ros's is the one to seek.

A full refund option should have been offered by the t.op. with the notification letter. She shouldn't need to fight for this option.

But I suspect that she will - and I'm certainly not arguing that she should have too - but rather that the obvious potential loophole that the TO will probably try to exploit is that she is still going to the same hotel and that this clause only applies if they move you to a different hotel to the one you booked. I would expect them to try and argue that she has to prove that there will be a qualitative difference to the holiday that she's getting for the money she originally agreed to pay hence why they need to be pressed to explain the reasons for this regrading.

SM

Hi Mike,

I believe Katy is no longer getting the 4* product she paid for and booked. New bookers are getting a 3* that's a fact.

We are singing from the same hymn sheet, but I would hope that the travel company will do the honourable (and legal) thing without argument.

Peter

*** UPDATE***

Hi every one and thankyou all for your replies, advice and recomendations...

I phoned Ross today but couldn't actually speak to her so her lovely assistant took all the details and said she would get back to me at some point...as yet she hasn't.

As soon as i got home from work (6pm) I phoned Portland Direct but as I am not the Lead Name I was not expecting them to really deal with me but to want to talk to Hubby.

Anyway after holding on for about 10 mins they finally answered and I said I had a querry regarding my holiday, they took the Ref No and I told them it was in hubbys name.....

She asked what the query was and I just said thatwe had recieved the letter about the downgrading and therefore would like to like to cancel our holiday... Ok she said that's done for you and there will be a full refund sent in the post

I DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TO ASK....

I will now wait and see if the refund is forth coming...though I am very shocked that she didn't require Hubby to cancel....

Thanks again everyone...it's nice to know you are all out there to turn to at times like this.

Katy xx

P S If there is any comeback on this like recieving letters saying this or that i will post an update xx

Hi Katy,

As I said earlier -

I would hope that the travel company will do the honourable (and legal) thing without argument

They did, absolutely great for you and well done Portland Direct.

Peter