Holiday Complaints

Do you have a holiday complaint? For help and advice post in here.
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Holiday prices go up and down. It is often said here on HT that once you have booked you should stop. Having said that our holiday booked for October is £200 pp more than we paid.

If it is in the T&Cs then in my opinion you should be making a claim for a refund. Ensure you do have it in writing. If it is online then get screen prints to back up your claim.

Others will be able to advise how to go about it but I would avoid the telephone. With the high charges you may spend more than you get back. Rather I would write to them setting out the facts. Enclose copies that prove your claim and ask for the money. Send it by recorded delivery signed for. No good sending an email as they will only ask for you to put it in writing and it only confuses things.

Please let us know how you go on with it - I am sure that others will be very interested.

Oh and enjoy the holiday!

fwh
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i have already phoned on wednesday and didnt really get anywhere with that. the girl i spoke to didnt even know anything about the t&c's and had to ask somebody, then came back and said it was to do with taxes and fuel cost...... rubbish in my opinion! t&c says 'holiday price' not fuel and tax prices.

i have already emailed the page to myself!!!!

just wanted to know what other people made of it and had any experience of the same thing for advice.

thanks
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I suspect what you may be reading refers to the tour operator's right to impose any surcharges or rebates in excess of 2%, should their costs change in respect of the holiday which you have already booked, rather than to any sort of price guarantee if you see the same holiday advertised later at a lower price.

David :wave
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i have seen the price guarantee they do but that must be done within 30 days of booking, this is just something i have read in there own t&c. the thing which is bothering me is that i booked well in advance to make sure i got the cheapest deal, which it turns out i'm not actually getting, and if it was the other way round they would be quick to cancel my holiday should i refuse to pay the increase.

heres the full paragraph i took it from:



now to me, what is written makes it sound like if the price goes down and is above 2% of the holiday price they will refund the difference...
  • Edited by David 2009-08-08 12:52:56
    Post edited for copyright reasons
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Don't want to put a dampner on things but you need to re read the terms on this bit.

MODS - Sorry if this causes any problems (ie: copyright)



Basically what it is saying is that if their direct costs in your holiday price (which is made up of transportation costs, fuel, taxes etc) becomes less then they will do the above.
What you had quoted was a small snippet of what the terms relate to and i am afraid that you will have no hope in gaining anything back. Harsh but true.
Your holiday price has come down becuase of lack of demand probably or they just want to sell the last few seats and are not that bothered what they sell them at.

What if your price had gone up, would you be writing to them to let them know that you want to pay the extra. I don't think so.

This is why people need to read their terms as what you put is exactly what i had the other day from a client of ours, the price had gone down 2hrs after he had booked, nothing can be done, they agreed to the price and as it was going in 2 days time the operator would not let him cancel. Again, if it had gone up, i wouldn't be calling him to pay the extra and neither we he want to, infact he would probably demand a refund and want to cancel.

Please people, read your terms before making out you know best.
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sorry david,

i was replying when you must of been editing the post above mine. can we not edit our own posts now, thought we could for some reason.

cheers
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I bet they wriggle out of a refund,it states" their costs",not holiday price so I think they will argue that they will be selling at a loss in order to recoup some of their costs.Good luck though,it may be worth a try but don't get your hopes up,the customer very rarely wins.T.
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Hi leisurelad ... edits are blocked in this forum, because it is more prone to comments of a libelous nature.

xsunseasandx ... those T&Cs refer to any surcharges or rebates which may affect the cost of your existing holiday booking. Anything below 2% will be absorbed by the tour operator, anything above 2% will be passed on to you. However, you appear to be reading them in relation to the costs of future holiday bookings for the same dates, duration, flights and accommodation, which may routinely fluctuate according to supply and demand.

David :wave
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I agree with the comments - BUT! Just for the hell of it why not write them a letter asking for the refund?

If nothing else you will have the satisfaction of them trying to get out of it. And you never ever know, they might just possibly refund you something.

fwh
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I should have added - you never telephone them asking for it. The people you are speaking with are in a call centre. They are taking calls all day and have very limited power to do anything. Certainly when it comes to refunds they can do nothing.

fwh
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sorry about the quotes, not really sure how to do them..... :duh

i'm not making out i know best, as iv'e already asked in previous posts what people thought, as thats how i'd read it.

they mention estimated costs for tax and fuel, but if they have gone down why should i be paying extra? i asked for a new amended copy of the fuel and tax charges if they have actually been changed but they couldnt provide me with that.
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None of us know best, we are only offering our personal opinions. :)

Mine is that there may be no reason to believe that the cost of your holiday has gone either up or down by more than 2%. But there may well be reason to believe that the cost of remaining availability for identical holidays has gone down by more than 2%. That is most likely to be due to supply and demand, rather than to any fluctuation in taxes or charges.

But those T&Cs refer to the cost of your holiday, and not the cost of those other holidays.

David :wave
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My holiday is also showing cheaper than when I booked it a month ago the best laugh is my first choice of hotel that was full is now suddenly available again :think

It only highlights the reasons why I usually book DIY, I am not going to bother looking at the site again because it will only annoy me.
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david ht mod, it was leisure lads last comment that i was replying to about knowing best!

all i wanted was other peoples opinion on the matter from people who are possibly in the job and might be able to explain it better, which i can understand where they are coming from now (i didnt realise 'their costs' didnt include hotel or flight) but i still dont think its fair!!!! i was told by a travel agent last year they were phasing out late deals at some point!!! and i thought you would get a better deal booking in advance.....
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I think we also have to face the fact that booking early does not necessarily mean getting the best deal. It usually allows you to get the holiday of your choice, ie flight times, accommodation, resort, free child places, etc but it is no guarantee of the best deal. These days it's unlikely that any two identical holidays cost the same. It's unfortunate but I would not expect any travel company to offer any refund in their T&C's if the holiday price is reduced. It's no consolation to you but there's probably someone out there who's paid more for the same holiday than you have.
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I agree with taxman. From experience I think you must book early if you want to guarantee a particular hotel etc, but I think it very likely that at some period after booking you will see that holiday at a lower price. Only thing you can do is check if you could save money by cancelling, losing the deposit and rebooking the same holiday. I know I've saved money recently by doing this. (as have others.)
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To be honest the taxes etc probably haven't changed in price, it's just that the tour company probably hasn't sold what they thought they would and have lowered their prices to get people to buy the holiday!
Think of it this way, If you buy a cake from Sainsburys at 10 am you'll pay full price but if at 9.30 pm they still have some cakes left they will reduce the price so people buy them before they shut. Now if you'd got one at 10.am you wouldn't expect a refund of the difference! The problem is obviously in their missleading terms and conditions which many people would read and think 'if the price goes down I'll get a refund after 2% has been took off'
The TO is just reducing the price to sell the holiday as they have not sold what they perhaps thought!

I think the terms and conditions are just covering themselves if all of a sudden the government decides to put say a £50 tax on all flights or if fuel goes through the roof!
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Having helped construct similar T&C's before, I hope I can help a little bit with this, note these comments do not necessarily reflect what I think is morally right or wrong!

The Terms and Conditions do not allow you to get a refund for the holiday price dropping. Your holiday price is not dropping, another identical holiday price is lower than what you paid for it.

i.e Say you paid £2000, of which £1800 was the cost to the Tour Op, and £200 was profit. Months later much closer to the time of travel, things are quiet, business is slow etc, the hotel and airline might drop their prices to the Tour Operator (to stimulate new bookings - they don't make money on empty seats or hotel rooms) so the same holiday can now be sold for £1500 (cost £1350, profit £150).

However, your holiday is still costing the Tour Operator £1800, not £1350. So, no, they cannot drop the price to £1500 as they would be making a loss. The airline and hotel will not allow them to re-book onto the cheaper prices (it's contractually stipulated - Tour Op's can lose airline contracts and hotels can refuse to rebook clients in such situations).

Likewise, if the flights and hotel got busier, the price would have risen (this would be mainly flight prices due to yield managements, hotel prices do not normally fluctuate upwards, but you might find your chosen (or cheapest) room category or hotel is full (and in this day and age with internet research, the better hotels sell out first)).

The Tour Operators want to sell the cheapest holidays first. The want to encourage you to book early, forward bookings are gold. However, trivial things such as recessions, swine flu, currencies can have a major effect on people booking far enough ahead. Such things also mean it's financially difficulty to guarantee they can refund you if the prices drop after you book (although if a major Tour Operator owns the airline & resort it might be possible).

Now, regarding the terms and conditions that you mention. They are there essentially to protect the Tour Operators should there be a major variance in currencies or fuel surcharges / taxes. For example, that £2000 holiday (nett cost £1800). If it was to Florida, and you booked last year, and 50% of the cost (£900) was hotel and transfers it would mean that the hotel and transfers would be costing the Tour Operators US$1710 (because they would have priced up at 1.9 US$ to the pound). However, if they came to pay now, that would cost them £1068.75 (@1.6) or if you had travelled a couple of months ago £1266.66 (@1.35). If the airline had also increased their fuel charges by £50 per person (the worst i've seen is an overnight increase of £150) and Alistair Darling lumps another £40 on Air Passenger Duty, then all of a sudden, the Tour Operators costs have increased from £1800 up to £2266.66 (for two people travelling). Then of course they need to be making a profit from this - so would have to increase the price to £2,500 and have to request an extra £500 from you.

Tour Operators cannot sell holidays at a loss - not in this climate! They have no option but to pass on the increase as the 'perfect storm' of currencies and fuel etc were causing a massive % of holidays to increase substantially. Now in the above example, the Tour Operator would swallow the first 2% (an ABTA Stipulation) - £40, but have to charge the rest. However, in the above case, as the increase is above 10%, you have the right to cancel. But in reality, by then, you price the holiday up again, you'll find it's still the cheapest option, so it's a case of pay up, or don't go on holiday.

Now, with the refund back to you in the T&C - if it's worked in reverse - i.e. you booked when the holiday was calculated at 1.35 US$ to the £, and the fuel surcharge was £50, and subsequently dropped - well. You wouldn't get the refund on the fuel surcharge, as it will still be paid to the airline. But theoretically you could and should get a refund based on the additional profit the tour operator will make by paying the Hotel and Transfers at todays exchange rate (US$1.6 / 1.65). However that is very hard to prove what exchange rate was used at the time of calculating your prices, and what they are paying today (commercially sensitive information). So will anyone get a refund despite the Tour Operators costs dropping below 2%? I doubt it.

Do bare in mind the above is just a generalisation, and varies depending on the type of holiday and operator you book with, and might not relevant. In fact, it's longwinded, an I apologise for boring you :think , but might give someone an insight into the rationalisation behind these T&C's you've highlighted, and why the price fluctuates. And i've worked for big/very big/tiny tour ops in the past, there's an element of the above in most holidays (camping holidays in Devon not included!).

Or, if you prefer the short answer - no!
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A good explanation of how it works. When running a business you are often trading in the dark, just like doing your own budget at home. You never know what is round the corner is a phrase that sums it up.

TOs trade in the money market. Many of the deals people have booked were set up before the exchange rates went pear shaped.

Thos Cook bought Euroes for this year at around £1.29 but next year they are buying at £1.11 so prices will need to rise.

Have a look here; http://www.ttglive.com/c/portal/layout?p_l_id=61139&CMPI_SHARED_articleId=2486503&CMPI_SHARED_ImageArticleId=2486503&CMPI_SHARED_articleIdRelated=2486503&CMPI_SHARED_ToolsArticleId=2486503&CMPI_SHARED_CommentArticleId=2486503&articleTitle=Cook%202010%20holiday%20prices%20to%20rise%202-3%&fromSearch=yes

From Travel trade gazette which you can read online.

Another topic being discussed on HT is car hire and the shortage. Decisions are made a long way in front and are a guestitmate only.
Get it right and you make a lot of money. Get it wrong and we get the problem we had last year of many of the small firms going out of business.

Going back a few years I seem to remember that the TOs were actually advertising that if the price went down they would refund you. Unfortunately those days are long gone.

fwh
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