and the irony is that they are turkeys voting for Christmas. If it does go up market, does Lobo think shacks will remain??
edit to add- and it's such an over the top article that I would say it closely resembled the rubbish it was talking about!

Go up market?
Goa is going to be lucky to maintain its present market.

Interesting article.
We only touched north Goa a couple of times when we were in India as we did the Golden Triangle tour first and then had a week in south Goa at Bogmalo beach. We travelled up to Anjuna for the market but can't remember where else we went on the other occasion.

This will be 14 and a bit years ago and it was nothing like that when we were there.

My husband speaks fairly regularly to an expat from his home town who lives out in north Goa so I've just sent it to him to see what his man on the ground has to say about it.

Fiona wrote:

and it's such an over the top article that I would say it closely resembled the rubbish it was talking about!

I find it interesting, Fiona, that you think the article is OTT and inaccurate because, though I've never been to Goa, it pretty accurately reflects my perceptions of it based entirely on the posts here on HT. It reads like a check list of all my reasons for not wanting to visit Goa. The only thing that I hadn't already read about on HT was the bit about stingy pensioners spending their winter fuel allowance on going to Goa!

SM

The first few flights of the season are full of them, it's the long haul equivent of Spain.

Incidentally, if anyone is thinking the actual article is based on hearsay and plaguerised internet articles, the author of the piece, Gethin Chamberlain, lives in Goa and has done for some time.

I think any Brit actually living in Goa has their own axe to grind. And I would be the same if it was me. However, anyone reading the article who hasn't been to Goa will now have a picture in their head which frankly would resemble hell. Of course Goa isn't perfect and has a lot of faults. Which place doesn't? You just do some research( from several sources so you get a balance of views) to find the main problems and decide if you can put up with it.
Ok I've only been three times but I haven't climbed over mountains of rubbish. I certainly saw a rubbish dump area at the entrance to the beach( at Calangute) but the beach itself wasn't filthy or covered in oil. And surprise, surprise, there were actually bins at the shacks we were at in April. Yes- I have seen a couple of large rats in the evenings, but then I saw them outside our 5 star hotel in Mumbai as well. It's India for goodness sake, with all it's problems of extreme poverty and obscene wealth.
I don't recognise that photo at all. A group photo at a beach is more likely to contain a group of retirees. The point made about the couple in the article- yes that must be frustrating for shack owners but then to be honest, they have the solutions within their own hands. Why should they provide free sunbeds and not expect a minimum spent of eating/drinking? The long term stayers who frequented the same shack as us, drank mainly tea and water but had lunch at the shack. And at the weekend they splashed out on more drinks during the day.
The majority nationality of folks round us on the beach in April would have been Russians. They were polite, chatted to the shack owners, didn't annoy anyone and at lunch time they all seemed to eat and eat and eat- even the size 6 women!! The only time I saw what I thought was rudeness was with local tourists. There were a couple of times that I got really annoyed when I saw how they were treating shack workers- as if they were not there at all.
The beach had life guards and police present. A huge problem is with local tourists wading into the sea and not being able to swim and quickly getting out of their depths. The lifeguards spent their time telling everyone of them who got to knee depth to get out! We did see groups of lads supposedly taking photos of each other, but just happening to be standing close to a woman in a tiny bikini. I didn't have the same problem for some reason
Of course the locals see you as money. You are a tourist. They need to make a living. It's the same the world over. I have been to the same hotel all 3 times. I know its clean, secure, friendly staff and owners, has a good breakfast provided and a pool, sunbeds and towels. I know I paid an extortionate amount compared to other places - just over £35 a night( altogether for the two of us). I can't get that in Thailand.
We had a couple of long conversations with local business owners and they are not saying good riddance to Brits. Quite the opposite- they are extremely worried. They are particularly worried about the visa price.
We spent a ridiculously small amount of money every day and did what we wanted. Ate and drank at the shack each day, went out at night and had a lovely meal and drinks and also paid for a taxi in and out of the main part of Calangute or to Candolim. £100 lasted us 3 days. The food was always first class. We did tend to eat local dishes most of the time.
The roads are a nightmare. You do have to be really careful walking on parts without pavements. The main road through Calangute was very busy and we often just crossed when we could rather than when we wanted!!
We didn't walk along the beach at night-though we did go to couple of shacks close to the entrance to the beach. But then I won't walk along any dark, quiet beach late at night- that's just common sense.
The drug culture- where can you escape that- certainly not Thailand! I very much doubt you could in Vietnam or Cambodia either. Nobody approached us offering anything. OH didn't even get approached by women offering "special massages" which certainly happened in Thailand and Bali
So each day we woke up in our clean, safe, large, a/c room, Had a lovey breakfast, walked less than five minutes to the beach( passing the part of the road which was being dug up before it collapsed), passed the rubbish at the entrance, on to the beach which was not littered with rubbish or covered in oil, chose our sunbeds for the day, chatted to the sunbed girls and eventually gave in and bought some jewellery , relaxed, had a super lunch, relaxed again and watched the antics of the coastguard and the local tourist who tried their best to paddle before being shouted at to get back., walked back to shower and go out for a beautiful meal and a few relaxing drinks and back for a last drink in the balcony. I tell you- it was sheer hell!!

Goa isn't for everyone. If you want 5 star luxury then you will definitely pay way over what you would pay in many other countries in Asia. And frankly, if its the 5 star experience you want, you would be better going elsewhere.

By the way - thanks Botany Bay for posting the article. It does make for a good debate. Are you an expat, a long termer or just an ordinary tourist like me? What are your views?

May be these high class super rich tourists will have not have any place to spend all their money
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/goa/300-private-shack-operators-in-the-dock/articleshow/22219830.cms

andy taz wrote:

May be these high class super rich tourists will have not have any place to spend all their money
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/goa/300-private-shack-operators-in-the-dock/articleshow/22219830.cms

This is no punishment at all. Even the article refers to the high cost of complying with the law, and this forfeiture will be a lot less than dismantling and re-erecting the shack and storing everything through the monsoon.

Unless a stiffer penalty is introduced, they will be left up next year too.

Fiona, to answer your query, I have been in all three categories, spread over 20+ years. What is my take on all this?

Only my opinion, but I think Goa is going downhill at such an accelerated rate, with nothing at all being done to arrest the slide.......... in fact many things are being done to make it worse, and I expect the place to "implode" in the next few years. Only one person's opinion though.

I hope it doesn't implode. I watched all the retirees in April who had been out for the winter and was hoping I would be able to do that one day. ( If we do, we will definitely not share a teabag )
Which reminds me-one such couple was in the same bar as us one night and were telling folks they had had enough and were going to book somewhere else next winter. They were considering Thailand or Vietnam. Two days later at the beach they were telling another couple that they were going home in a couple of days but had just booked their flights out for November and staying till April!

Fiona you've summed Goa up very nicely

To be honest, if I was quite wealthy (or even moderatley wealthy), Goa is well down the list of places I would spend my holidays.
I am not sure what exactly is expected of a normal tourist there.
We usually go for 6 weeks and it costs in the region of £3000 plus flights.
I would have thought spending £500 per week is not being a skinflint.
Can you imagine arriving on a smart cruise liner, being stung for a visa on disembarkation and then being surrounded by all the dirt and rubbish?
Incidentally, I doubt that cruise liner visitors will spend a great deal as they are usually back on board for meals etc.
The same applies to any 5star AI hotels, their customers are not likley to be big spenders outside the hotels, certainly not in the beach shacks.
Also, I simply do not believe for a minute the story of the shared tea bag, you are lucky to get one cup from the tea bags there!
However, if they really don't want me....that is soon sorted!

I know what you mean re the tea bags
Del but the coffee is worse in the shacks it's like coloured water!!

We take our own coffee and tea for the room and I rarely drink it outside, sticking to either soft drinks or beer.
One exception is the little coffee shop opposite the Magnum (I think) Hotel, really good coffee in there..... and the A/C is icy cold

nejulie wrote:

I know what you mean re the tea bags
Del but the coffee is worse in the shacks it's like coloured water!!

The tea bags the shacks & hotels use (Taj Mahal or similar are cheap rubbish, try the more expensive ones in supermarkets such as Luma, Lawande or Ajays, one will suit your taste, maybe a Tata brand as they have owned Tetley for some time now. Alternatively take an infuser and get real tea from Tea Corner in Mapusa............. its fabulous and quite cheap.

Coffee? Sometimes available in the above mentioned supermarkets, or more likely in those in Anjuna...... imported Nescafe from South America, brown cap, not the dreaded Indian red top - Red for danger, its cr@p. This imported Nescafe is very acceptable, not cheap (but no more than in the UK), but if you are in Bombay and exploring Crawford Market, its half the price there.
Alternatively, Tea Corner (other outlets are available) will sell you coffee beans, whole or ground, to process yourself.

Don't drink the rubbish, its not necessary

I learned my lesson on my first trip to Goa re the coffee and we now always take our own. I hate the bog standard Nescafé but don't mind the Alta Rica which Newtons does sell at a hefty premium but I need 3 spoons for a decent tasting cup so works out quite expensive. Nowadays we take a cafataire and some decent ground with us. Though I do throw in a few of the Starbucks instant sticks which are not to bad for any overnight trips we may take.

Wish I was sitting on that Balcony now with a nice coffee instead of a busy bus to work!

That's an interesting article, for sure!

I guess we fall into the "retired" category but we eat out every night, spend money in shacks and would never dream of sneaking our own food and drinks in there. We rent an apartment from local people and try to do the right things.

Sure, we have seen the Brits (and others) who abuse hospitality and spend very little. We also see them in Blackpool, Brighton and Bognor!

But Goa going up market? It's a bit of a joke really and just shows how completely out of touch the tourist authorities are. Goan infrastructure is poor - power outages most nights, roads that can't cope with the traffic, dirt and filth all too visible. It says much about their insight into tourism that a new international airport is due to open without a main sewer connection.....and they're taking Goa up market? Laughable!

But this isn't a jibe at Goa! We love it. Okay, all sorts of things could be better but the people we know there are great, the food is fantastic, the climate superb and yes, it's great value. Goa is full of good people trying to make a living despite the "authorities" who leech off the same businesses that they burden with more rules, regulations and nonsense.