Kosmar refusing refund - Holiday Complaints, Holiday Forums

Kosmar refusing refund

2006-12-21 23:13:39

Hi there
I've just joined here so hello everyone!
I'm not sure if anyone can help me, back in July I booked a holiday with Kosmar to Kephalonia for next May, for me, my partner and 2 children. I paid a £400 deposit. At the end of November Kosmar wrote me a letter saying my accommodation is no longer available and that I have 2 options: 1) rebook with another accommodation, 2) rebook another holiday, including other countries.
I don't want to rebook a new holiday as it took me ages to whittle all the options down to the holiday I had booked, taking into account the dates I wanted to go, times of flights, lengths of flights, lengths of journey from airport to resort, location of beaches/tavernas/supermarkets etc. I needed it all to be just right for us with 2 small children. So I decided to ring up Kosmar, cancel the holiday and get a refund of my deposit. It says in their brochure if they incur any 'major' changes I would be entitled to cancel with full refund.
When I rang Kosmar they were incredibly abrupt and rude and flat refused to pay me my £400 back. My partner then tried phoning and the same happened.
So I wrote them a letter demanding my deposit back as they had breached our contract. 3 weeks later I got a reply from Kosmar saying no again, that this was only a 'minor' change therefore I wasn't entitled to my deposit back.
Is it just me or is this incredibly unfair if not illegal? £400 is a lot of money for Kosmar to just keep for nothing!
I am now wondering about a legal route but don't know how to go about it, how much this would cost and if I have a leg to stand on legally. Can anyone advise?
Kind Regards
Alice

Kath

2006-12-21 23:24:48

Alice

I think cancelling your accommodation should be classed as a significant change and therefore you should be able to cancel your holiday with a refund.

Please contact Ros Fernihough, Travel Law Solicitor on 01922 621114, either she or her assistant will give you the advice you require.

Kath HT Admin

fwh

2006-12-21 23:31:44

I have pasted this over from here - http://www.holidaytruths.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=81180

Write to them ( recorded delivery ) and quote these regulations. Should you still have problems the contact: Ros Fernihough, Travel Law Solicitor, .

Ros has offered our members free impartial legal advice. Please note that Ros does not read or post on this board any contact to her must be made via :- Tel :- 01922 621114

The quote below is taken from The Package Travel, Package Holidays and Package Tours Regulations 1992

Crown Copyright is acknowledged.

Quote:
Withdrawal by consumer pursuant to regulation 12 and cancellation by organiser
13.-(1) The terms set out in paragraphs (2) and (3) below are implied in every contract and apply where the consumer withdraws from the contract pursuant to the term in it implied by virtue of regulation 12(a), or where the organiser, for any reason other than the fault of the consumer, cancels the package before the agreed date of departure.

(2) The consumer is entitled-

(a) to take a substitute package of equivalent or superior quality if the other party to the contract is able to offer him such a substitute; or

(b) to take a substitute package of lower quality if the other party to the contract is able to offer him one and to recover from the organiser the difference in price between the price of the package purchased and that of the substitute package; or

(c) to have repaid to him as soon as possible all the monies paid by him under the contract.

(3) The consumer is entitled, if appropriate, to be compensated by the organiser for non-performance of the contract except where-

(a) the package is cancelled because the number of persons who agree to take it is less than the minimum number required and the consumer is informed of the cancellation, in writing, within the period indicated in the description of the package; or

(b) the package is cancelled by reason of unusual and unforeseeable circumstances beyond the control of the party by whom this exception is pleaded, the consequences of which could not have been avoided even if all due care had been exercised.

(4) Overbooking shall not be regarded as a circumstance falling within the provisions of sub-paragraph (b) of paragraph (3) above.

fwh

creamycheesecake

2006-12-21 23:48:28

thanks for your help

I will ring Ros.

MikeCunliffe

2006-12-22 15:11:20

fwh,

spot-on. I couldn't have said it any better.

Creamycheesecake (ccc OK?) - I bet a letter to Kosmar indicating you've talked to Ros (after doing so of course) will ellicit the refund return.

I never cease to be amazed by the crass stupidy (borderline criminality) of some of these tour operators. How on earth can a change of accommodation be enything other than a MAJOR change.

A package is typically return flights to a resort and accommodation at an agreed hotel/apartment. Would Kosmar accept sending you to say, Morocco would constitute a major or minor change?

Money back in 7 days or legal action ensues would be my line.

But, to speed matters up, how did you pay the £400? If you used cr. card, contact the card issuer pronto, explain the situation, get them to freeze payment and in effect avoid having to pay £400 on your NEXT statement. It's covered under section 75 of the consumer credit act.

Good Luck, and happy xmas.

creamycheesecake

2006-12-28 13:49:53

update

Hi again, thought I'd update you.

I rang Ros but she is away until 8th January so going to try again then.

In the meantime I was reading about the farepak disputes on another website and read about some advice given to those people, called 'chargeback' which is where you can claim back from your bank if you paid by Visa (I think this correct but not sure!) and didn't get your goods. I can't find much information about it elsewhere but gave it a go and rang my bank, saying I'd like to start a chargeback procedure. After a while of details being given and being put on hold they told me the transaction was made too long ago to start a procedure, but gave me the Consumer Direct no. for information. So I rang them and they said as far as they knew the time limit was 6 years, but gave me the number of Financial Ombudsman Services for more information. FOS said that the chargeback doesn't cover debit cards at all, they only cover credit cards...

So regarding this 'chargeback' I really don't know what to do, conflicting info.
Does anyone else know by any chance?

MikeCunliffe

2006-12-28 18:54:37

But, to speed matters up, how did you pay the £400? If you used cr. card, contact the card issuer pronto, explain the situation, get them to freeze payment and in effect avoid having to pay £400 on your NEXT statement. It's covered under section 75 of the consumer credit act.

Section 75 covers credit card payment of between £100 and £30,000. If you paid by CREDIT card you can claim back via the card issuer. This is the great reason for paying for ALL travel arrangements by credit card and NOT debit card.

However, Farepak customers have found that VISA debit cards also provide similar protection. This is known as CHARGEBACK and is a feature that applies only to VISA cards and not Mastercard, Amex etc.

If you paid by DEBIT card and it is a VISA card contact the issuing bank and explain this to them. If they refuse to assist you telephone the Ombudsman at 0845 080 1800 (OR 020 7964 1000 if you get free geographical calls).

The ombudsman can usually only help when the Bank's internal complaints procedure is exhausted - often 8 week after first raising a cmplaint with the bank. So, if the bank isn't helping you raise a written complaint and get the 8 week period started.

Good luck,

ps - if you need further help in making your bank react, PM me. I've some great ideas in that direction.

Mike

creamycheesecake

2006-12-28 19:02:21

Thanks for your reply you are very helpful! I have written a letter to my bank explaining so hopefully they will start the chargeback procedure when they receive the letter. And it will start the 8 week period off.
I'll let you know!
I've also phoned ABTA who agreed I am entitled to a refund! They said I had to write to Kosmar again telling them that, and if still a refusal to let ABTA know.
2 different directions but hopefully my £ back one way or another!
Thanks again for your great advice.

:thanks

robbyw

2007-01-03 14:50:44

Sorry to read this, what are Kosmar playing at ??????????
It clearly states in their brochure, page 338 - section 7C that you are entitled to cancel and they will "refund all monies payed to us".
I have always been happy with Kosmar, and hopefully this is just an oversight - please keep us all informed.

Robby :wink:

creamycheesecake

2007-01-03 16:42:44

Hi there

My thoughts exactly. Kosmar's argument is that the conditions you mentioned are for 'major changes' that they might incur, and that my changes are infact 'minor'. I don't know who they think they are telling me that withdrawing my accommodation is minor!
Anyway I have written to them again, telling them again I want my refund and that I have called ABTA, and ABTA agree with me, which I did do.

I wrote via recorded mail and know they received my letter on December 30th, so I am just waiting now, I wouldn't be surprised if it were for 3-4 weeks like last time.

I'll let you know what happens :roll:

tiny tony

2007-01-03 22:04:03

creamycheesecake
so sorry to hear about your rough deal with kosmar. we also,along with many others,suffered the same fate as you. kosmar changed our accomadation after we paid our deposite (£900, see this forum for full story).we tried to get our money back with tsb visa as we paid by credit card but were told that kosmars small print prevented us getting a refund. we phoned abta but they were more than totally uninterested. we even got a travel agent friend to look into it and they were amazed at the rudeness and uncareing attitude from kosmar (bearing in mind that this is the second holiday running that they have done this to us).
we decided to find other accomadation with kosmar but trying to fit 9 people in to the accomadation of our prefered choice was imposible as by then time had moved on by a couple of months.
i am ashamed to say that in the end we just agreed to take the alternate accomadation kosmar gave us in the first place (the last place i would have chosen)
its not much consalation creamycheesecake but you are not alone.
my advice to anyone reading this is never ever book with kosmar, even if their prices do seem ok the hassle is just not worth it.
by the way what ever happened to consumer rights?

Peter of York

2007-01-03 23:10:02

by the way what ever happened to consumer rights?

You'll find them at your local Trading Standards Department, if Kosmar are breaching the Package Holiday Regulations.

I suspect Kosmar will be very well known to them because these Trading Standards Dept's work very closely together and share information regarding complaints.

Peter

MikeCunliffe

2007-01-04 10:16:24

by the way what ever happened to consumer rights?

Peter divulged one place where they "lurk", the other place is at your friendly specialist travel lawyer.....Ros Fernihough.

Consumer Rights need to be fought for. They don't come knocking on your door. The Package Tour regulations are often mentioned on this site. Peter, fwh and myself are guilty of quoting the relevant clauses frequently.

As regards TSB and visa refunds - again, fight for your rights. Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act permits you to seek redress from either/or the supplier and credit card issuer providing the latter is UK based and you spend between £100 and £30,000.

If you've NOT received the product/service contracted and paid for small-print cannot (in my opinion) be used to prevent you obtaining a refund. Check this with the Financial Ombudsmans Office if needs be (0845 080 1800).

If EVERYONE asserted their legal rights when a wrong is committed companies would be more likely to adhere to the rules.

Rant Over :lol:

fwh

2007-01-04 10:50:04

I agree with Mikes comments about how we keep quoting the regulations. I think so often it is because people posting for help/advice are new to HT and therefore not aware of what their rights are. It can sometimes come across as a lecture.

The ABTA and Atol sites are shown below. You need to look in the telephone directory for your local Trading Standards..

http://www.abta.com/consumeraffairscontact.shtml

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?categoryid=124&pagetype=90

Might I suggest that when you write to complain about your problem, you also send a copy to them with a covering note. (Make sure they are members of that organisation first) and note on your letter of complaint that you have done so. It does say that you are serious. It also tells these organisations the failings of their members.

We have said before that any letter of complaint needs to be written in a professional manner. The biggest problem for anyone here on HT giving assistance is the way the complaint is written here. They are often heavy on anger and frustration and lacking in a coherent explanation.

Again I would agree with Mike re Ros Fernihough - we can only express our own opinions - our quoting regulations and laws may help, but to quote and old phrase "A little Knowledge is a Dangerous Thing"

There is no substitute for a real expert and Ros is certainly that.

fwh

rhodes2003

2007-01-10 11:43:12

Hi Alice,
Been reading your discussion with interest - we also have "Problems With Kosmar" (another discussion). Thought you might like to know, just been into our travel agents to gather up all our original documentation for Ros, and happened to mention your problem. They've had a customer in the last few weeks who also couldn't get their deposit back from Kosmar - exactly the same prob as you. Needless to say, after many telephone calls to Kosmar from the travel agent, and letters from the customer, the deposit was refunded. So there may be light at the end of the tunnel for you.
Just looking at Kosmar's booking conditions for 2007 - look under para 7 "If we change your holiday". "Most changes are minor. When a major change becomes necessary we will inform you or your travel agent blah blah - A major change is one that we make to your holiday arrangements before departure which involves a change of UK airport blah blah, resort, accommodation to one of a lower price etc etc. It says you may either a) accept the changes, b) change to an alternative holiday where available, from us, with the appropriate price adjustment or, c) cancel your holiday. If you choose a or b we will pay you compensation on the scale below. (see brochure for scale) If you choose c, we will refund all monies paid to us."
Pretty clear cut to me - you should get your deposit back without any question. Good luck.
Carrie

MikeCunliffe

2007-01-10 13:18:55

Carrie, a clear post there - great.
Kosmar might try to use the argument that the alternate accommodation is the same class/price as that booked.

accommodation to one of a lower price

The above taken from your post (and from their brochure) might try to argue that point. Personally, any change of accomm. is, in my opinion, a major change and one that requires the agreement of the booker. Naturally, if the booker cannot agree to a suitable alternate should the original be unavailable a full refund and cancellation is in order.

Small print clauses in brochures need to be "fair". They cannot use such tactics to weaken your basic rights.

Do let us know the outcome Alice.

Mike

Glynis HT Admin

2007-01-10 14:24:41

I'm sure any change of accommodation is classed as a major change. People have different priorities on their choice of accommodation. Services, location, size can all be factors. For instance we don't like large complexes so we wouldn't want to be placed in one and would therefore book a small hotel or apartment block and certainly wouldn't want to be moved into a large one, even if it was of the same grading.

rhodes2003

2007-01-15 14:40:13

Hi,
Further to my last post quoting Kosmar's Booking Conditions for 2007 - from the 1st edition brochure. Just been into my travel agents to pick up a current Kosmar brochure - 2007 2nd edition to find my previous quotes from "If we change your holiday" changed as follows!!
You can now either:
a. accept the changes offered, or in the case of an accommodation change accept the equivalent or superior offered
b. change to an alternative holiday where available, from us, with the appropriate price adjustment, or
c. cancel your holiday, and maybe entitled to compensation.
Any ideas as to the changes - Mike you are pretty up to date with all of this!!
Also to my horror, and probably to many others, Kosmar have now branched out further and now go to, in addition to Greece (Turkey doesn't appear to feature now in 2nd edition 2007), Cyprus, Majorca, Gran Canaria, Lanzarote, Tenerife and The Algarve!!
Carrie

rhodes2003

2007-01-15 14:42:22

PS.
Forgot to mention that these new changes do not currently appear on Kosmar's website!! They seem to do as they please!
Carrie

MikeCunliffe

2007-01-15 15:12:48

Carrie,
the wording change (as posted) is subtle:

New Wording:

a. accept the changes offered, or in the case of an accommodation change accept the equivalent or superior offered
b. change to an alternative holiday where available, from us, with the appropriate price adjustment, or
c. cancel your holiday, and maybe entitled to compensation

Old Wording

It says you may either
a) accept the changes,
b) change to an alternative holiday where available, from us, with the appropriate price adjustment or,
c) cancel your holiday.
If you choose a or b we will pay you compensation on the scale below. (see brochure for scale) If you choose c, we will refund all monies paid to us.

The new wording (at the top) gives the impression that you are less likely to be compensated for major changes and doesn't clarify the (obvious) need to be refunded in the case of a cancellation.

Tour Operators can try to print what they like of course but they cannot include clauses in their conditions that are unfair or restrict your legal rights. Your right to compensation increases as the departure date nears - pretty reasonable really as your effective options are limited if they make a major change, say, just hours before departure.

The clock's ticking for Alice. Kosmar have 28 days to respond to her letter they received on the 30 Dec 2006 (I believe). I guess Alice will update us when she receives the response.

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