I am dipping my toe in the political lions den here.
What was people's thoughts?
I personally was happy Corbyn didn't get in. I do agree with some of his policies (like taking the railways back under state control, making the large energy companies UK run), but I do not think he has the ability to run the economy and that is key to creating money to deal with deficits and our ability to get out of the mess we are..
Corbyn v May
What a mess we are in. I was hoping that a hung parliament might give us the best of both. But that's obviously not going to happen.
What a mess we are in. I was hoping that a hung parliament might give us the best of both. But that's obviously not going to happen.
Don't know about a political lion's den, it's not as if we don't have enough to worry about with Islamic terrorists and Brexit, they now want to poke a hornet's nest in Northern Ireland.
Bluudy hell fire, some people have short memories, Mo Mowlam will be turning in her grave. Tony Blair took the credit, but it was through the work of Mo that Northern Ireland found some sort of peace.
I've always said that if you can't be bothered to vote, then you have no right to an opinion about political issues. People died to give you the right to democratically change things.
I've voted every time in both local and general elections/ referendums, since I was 21 years old and I'm 70 years old next birthday.
I've always been interested in politics and in my younger days I was a Union representative, and I just could not vote for any of them. I struggled for weeks with my principles , so no, even though it went against everything I've spent a good deal of my life believing and preaching about, for the first time, I did not vote.
The dementia tax, removing the triple lock on pensions and the WFA, alienated millions of people of my age. There are some wealthy pensioners whose wealth is in bricks and mortar through house prices going through the roof, which is not their fault, pensioners didn't create the ridiculous house prices of today, most are like me, they worked and bought a house when they could afford a mortgage and raise a family........and there are a lot of pensioners living a miserable life worried about how they can survive another day of eating or heating. I wouldn't mind them removing the triple lock or the WFA if they paid us a decent old age pension, instead of one of the lowest in Europe.
Then we have Corbyn and his money tree and his carrot for the youngsters wiping out tuition fees and university debt....well I'd vote for that if I was 50 years younger and a student. It took my lad years to pay off his student debt.
The problem with Labour's money tree is that they've costed all these goodies by proposing to tax the high earners more and raising corporation tax to 26%.
What happens if these corporations decide to up sticks and relocate in Europe where places like Spain's corporation tax is 25% and they give a tax sweetheart deal for 2 years and sometimes 5 years for new businesses setting up in Spain.
What is there to keep them here if we get a lousy deal with the EU, they're probably going to be better off located within Europe after Brexit ..... and where is Corbyn going to get his money from if that happens.?
The problem with Corbyn’s form of socialism, is that it won't accept that it's private enterprises that create the wealth.
Sanji x
Bluudy hell fire, some people have short memories, Mo Mowlam will be turning in her grave. Tony Blair took the credit, but it was through the work of Mo that Northern Ireland found some sort of peace.
I've always said that if you can't be bothered to vote, then you have no right to an opinion about political issues. People died to give you the right to democratically change things.
I've voted every time in both local and general elections/ referendums, since I was 21 years old and I'm 70 years old next birthday.
I've always been interested in politics and in my younger days I was a Union representative, and I just could not vote for any of them. I struggled for weeks with my principles , so no, even though it went against everything I've spent a good deal of my life believing and preaching about, for the first time, I did not vote.
The dementia tax, removing the triple lock on pensions and the WFA, alienated millions of people of my age. There are some wealthy pensioners whose wealth is in bricks and mortar through house prices going through the roof, which is not their fault, pensioners didn't create the ridiculous house prices of today, most are like me, they worked and bought a house when they could afford a mortgage and raise a family........and there are a lot of pensioners living a miserable life worried about how they can survive another day of eating or heating. I wouldn't mind them removing the triple lock or the WFA if they paid us a decent old age pension, instead of one of the lowest in Europe.
Then we have Corbyn and his money tree and his carrot for the youngsters wiping out tuition fees and university debt....well I'd vote for that if I was 50 years younger and a student. It took my lad years to pay off his student debt.
The problem with Labour's money tree is that they've costed all these goodies by proposing to tax the high earners more and raising corporation tax to 26%.
What happens if these corporations decide to up sticks and relocate in Europe where places like Spain's corporation tax is 25% and they give a tax sweetheart deal for 2 years and sometimes 5 years for new businesses setting up in Spain.
What is there to keep them here if we get a lousy deal with the EU, they're probably going to be better off located within Europe after Brexit ..... and where is Corbyn going to get his money from if that happens.?
The problem with Corbyn’s form of socialism, is that it won't accept that it's private enterprises that create the wealth.
Sanji x
-
Edited by
Sanji
2017-06-13 10:04:00
I flew out on Election Day after voting off course ! Easy choice as my local MP would get my vote whichever colour rosette she wore as she's a great MP and deserves to represent the constituency in Westminster . I've seen the result and heard a few bits but not as much as if I was home .
The truth is we have a democracy and that counts for a lot , and you can always count on the electorate to tell you the truth even though politicians like to be economical with it ( the truth ) .
My take is the electorate didn't trust or vote enough for May to have a majority and conduct brexit in a way they wanted .
The electorate didn't trust Corbyn to be prime minster even though he said he would spend loads of money , they knew it would end up being them who paid for it and not the 5% , it's far easier to get money from those on PAYE .
The electorate didn't trust those who would be probably appointed to the cabinet by Corbyn either .
The electorate decided to vote Tories into 2 Scottish seats to cut off the Westminster voices of Salmond and Robertson , the 2 most recognisable of the SNP in Westminster, most likely in retaliation of the continued call for independence against the majorities wishes .
The truth is we have a democracy and that counts for a lot , and you can always count on the electorate to tell you the truth even though politicians like to be economical with it ( the truth ) .
My take is the electorate didn't trust or vote enough for May to have a majority and conduct brexit in a way they wanted .
The electorate didn't trust Corbyn to be prime minster even though he said he would spend loads of money , they knew it would end up being them who paid for it and not the 5% , it's far easier to get money from those on PAYE .
The electorate didn't trust those who would be probably appointed to the cabinet by Corbyn either .
The electorate decided to vote Tories into 2 Scottish seats to cut off the Westminster voices of Salmond and Robertson , the 2 most recognisable of the SNP in Westminster, most likely in retaliation of the continued call for independence against the majorities wishes .
Contd ... This was an election of what people didn't want , rather than what they wanted , it was about voting against rather than for .
Although I did just vote for my MP because I like her and she's a good person .
Although I did just vote for my MP because I like her and she's a good person .
Can I say none of the above? 
I would have preferred a progressive coalition than May though, and quite frankly can't get my head around anyone in Scotland voting Tory, they must have very short memories. For some reason the Tories have been lauded as winners up here, but the SNP took 60% of the vote, something that would be deemed excellent was it not for the whole landslide last time around (Not sad to see Salmond go though, never particularly liked him even though I'm a nationalist)
Westminister just feels more and more irrelevant to me now, sadly
I would have preferred a progressive coalition than May though, and quite frankly can't get my head around anyone in Scotland voting Tory, they must have very short memories. For some reason the Tories have been lauded as winners up here, but the SNP took 60% of the vote, something that would be deemed excellent was it not for the whole landslide last time around (Not sad to see Salmond go though, never particularly liked him even though I'm a nationalist)
Westminister just feels more and more irrelevant to me now, sadly
Also, touching on what Sanji said .....
We now have a 'loose' coalition with the DUP, so much for government neutrality over Northern Ireland, this is a very dangerous game to be playing
We now have a 'loose' coalition with the DUP, so much for government neutrality over Northern Ireland, this is a very dangerous game to be playing
The DUP has already had a dig.
"I personally was happy Corbyn didn't get in. I do agree with some of his policies (like taking the railways back under state control."
Unless we have a hard Brexit, which Corbyn is indicating that he doesn't want, I just don't know how he (or anybody else) is going to achieve bringing the railways back under state control . EU directives are all for opening up the railways to competition.
Of course he's talking about the train operating services because all of Britain's railways are owned by the British state.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20131217IPR31103/fourth-railway-pack-lifting-market-entry-barriers-to-improve-passenger-services
Sanji x
Unless we have a hard Brexit, which Corbyn is indicating that he doesn't want, I just don't know how he (or anybody else) is going to achieve bringing the railways back under state control . EU directives are all for opening up the railways to competition.
Of course he's talking about the train operating services because all of Britain's railways are owned by the British state.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20131217IPR31103/fourth-railway-pack-lifting-market-entry-barriers-to-improve-passenger-services
Sanji x
Well opening up our train services to competition now means that a number of them are now operated by other EU countries state owned railways! And when the East Coast franchise was handed back because there wasn't enough profit in it for the operating company it was far better run by the civil servants than it is now after the franchise was given to Virgin.
The East Coast line was put back into public ownership for five years and despite making a profit every year and being ranked 5th in a 'Which' survey, and despite public protests, it was handed back to the private sector.
It just didn't make any sense why they would do this, until you delved into the EU railways directives. I read somewhere that once it had been opened up for competition, it cannot be returned to public ownership.
So, they had to put the East Coast line back into the private sector because they were in breach of the directive.
The link above touches on these rules.
Quote :
The new rules aim to ensure that public service contracts deliver the best possible value for money, by restricting their size and ensuring that they cannot be granted directly without justification.
Member states may continue to award public service contracts for rail passenger transport directly on certain conditions, but the awarding authority would be required to justify how direct award can meet efficiency criteria such as punctuality of services, cost-efficiency, frequency of train operations, and customer satisfaction.
If these requirements are not met, the regulatory body could oblige the competent authority to award the contract through competitive tendering. A deadline of 2022 would be set to allow competent authorities to phase in competitive tendering.
Unquote
Sanji x
It just didn't make any sense why they would do this, until you delved into the EU railways directives. I read somewhere that once it had been opened up for competition, it cannot be returned to public ownership.
So, they had to put the East Coast line back into the private sector because they were in breach of the directive.
The link above touches on these rules.
Quote :
The new rules aim to ensure that public service contracts deliver the best possible value for money, by restricting their size and ensuring that they cannot be granted directly without justification.
Member states may continue to award public service contracts for rail passenger transport directly on certain conditions, but the awarding authority would be required to justify how direct award can meet efficiency criteria such as punctuality of services, cost-efficiency, frequency of train operations, and customer satisfaction.
If these requirements are not met, the regulatory body could oblige the competent authority to award the contract through competitive tendering. A deadline of 2022 would be set to allow competent authorities to phase in competitive tendering.
Unquote
Sanji x
-
Edited by
Sanji
2017-06-13 18:26:44
Much of what Corbyn was offering/proposing was the sort ofwhat if we discuss over a pint – would be nice but totally impractical and
unaffordable.Tuition Fees – Government could not afford them if they wereto promote the idea of everyone going to university which is why they were
introduced. Of course with typical government (of any colour) they made a mess
of it. £3,000 was not so bad but once the idea of charging £9,000 came about
the idea that Unis might compete went out the door. They all charged £9k no
matter if it was actually worth it. Another myth pedalled was the quality of
teaching would improve but it quickly became apparent that was not the case. As
one student said when discussing it, who do you complain to? The people who will
be marking your papers are the same ones not delivering the quality of
teaching.Let’s renationalise things. Well you need to ask why thenationalised industries failed. Just like the education and tuition fees cost.
Government could not afford to subsidise them or invest in their future. True
allowing foreign companies to take them over should not have been allowed but
privatising was the correct thing to do but a lack of safeguards. For those who
blame the Conservatives consider that the Labour governments under Blair and
Brown were happy for them to stay in the private sector. Tax the Rich – Successive governments (Red and Blue) haveallowed the super-rich to get away with moving money abroad and paying little
tax. Corbyn proposing taxing those on £80k plus only hits those who actually do
pay tax. As has been said companies will be happy to move things abroad if they
are penalised. Interestingly lowering of Corporation Tax resulted in an
increase of £15 billion more tax being paid. I also find the envy of the rich
hard to swallow. As Sanji says pensioners are rich in Bricks and mortar not
cash. We worked hard and made sacrifices to buy them. We pensioners are not rich – the majority do not have nicebig pension pots. Our incomes are fixed and if you have £8,000 in savings
(£16,000) for a married couple you get no benefits except free eye tests and
prescriptions. What savings we have attract little interest instead we subsidise
the cheap mortgages and help swell the bank coffers. As someone who was politically active I find many members ofall parties have become more self-centred. I have known politicians from all
sides, they used to care but many now are no different from the bankers and
estate agents. In it for what they can get out of it, just like the Brussels
crowd. Corbyn and his followers are proposing policies of the past that did not
work then and will not work now, the Labour party deserves better from its
leadership than dinosaur policies.
unaffordable.Tuition Fees – Government could not afford them if they wereto promote the idea of everyone going to university which is why they were
introduced. Of course with typical government (of any colour) they made a mess
of it. £3,000 was not so bad but once the idea of charging £9,000 came about
the idea that Unis might compete went out the door. They all charged £9k no
matter if it was actually worth it. Another myth pedalled was the quality of
teaching would improve but it quickly became apparent that was not the case. As
one student said when discussing it, who do you complain to? The people who will
be marking your papers are the same ones not delivering the quality of
teaching.Let’s renationalise things. Well you need to ask why thenationalised industries failed. Just like the education and tuition fees cost.
Government could not afford to subsidise them or invest in their future. True
allowing foreign companies to take them over should not have been allowed but
privatising was the correct thing to do but a lack of safeguards. For those who
blame the Conservatives consider that the Labour governments under Blair and
Brown were happy for them to stay in the private sector. Tax the Rich – Successive governments (Red and Blue) haveallowed the super-rich to get away with moving money abroad and paying little
tax. Corbyn proposing taxing those on £80k plus only hits those who actually do
pay tax. As has been said companies will be happy to move things abroad if they
are penalised. Interestingly lowering of Corporation Tax resulted in an
increase of £15 billion more tax being paid. I also find the envy of the rich
hard to swallow. As Sanji says pensioners are rich in Bricks and mortar not
cash. We worked hard and made sacrifices to buy them. We pensioners are not rich – the majority do not have nicebig pension pots. Our incomes are fixed and if you have £8,000 in savings
(£16,000) for a married couple you get no benefits except free eye tests and
prescriptions. What savings we have attract little interest instead we subsidise
the cheap mortgages and help swell the bank coffers. As someone who was politically active I find many members ofall parties have become more self-centred. I have known politicians from all
sides, they used to care but many now are no different from the bankers and
estate agents. In it for what they can get out of it, just like the Brussels
crowd. Corbyn and his followers are proposing policies of the past that did not
work then and will not work now, the Labour party deserves better from its
leadership than dinosaur policies.
I voted Labour and got the result I was hoping for a hung Parliament anybody thinks its a mess now just wait for the next few months to see the chaos whoever is Prime Minister and ther party will get the blame. Anyone who thinks we are going to get a cosy Brexit deal is dillusional.
I think whatever the outcome of the election that brexit was going to be far from cosy , I also feel that Labour spoke very little about brexit either , but from what I've read it does seem that both parties agreed on the 3 main points of the brexit agreement being 1. Leaving the single market , 2. Leaving the customs union , 3 . No more freedom of movement . As all 3 are pretty much tied together , so with a total of 83% of votes from the electorate going to those 2 parties that seems the way forward , both parties said that the referendum vote was what the people had decided and they had to respect that . I was actually disappointed that we really heard very little from Kier Starmer during the run up as I think he is the leading light in an otherwise uninspiring front bench for Labour , I would actually think it would be very good for the UK to have both him and David Davis leading the talks and discussions together with the EU , both of them appear to have the skills and abilities to carry out this task much more than either of their respective leaders .
I think it is a big mistake to think this election was about Brexit and that 83% support it. For many including me itwas about austerity.
Be fair , I didn't say 83% supported brexit , I said 83% voted for 2 parties that appear to have the same agreement on the path that brexit should follow , the SNP and Lib Dems had a different view and the SNP lost the most seats and libDems did add in a few areas but also lost their deposits ( gaining less than 5% of total vote in that seat ) in 375 seats , so quite a weak performance . On austerity the SNP were perhaps the most vocal and if they had not lost 12 seats to conservative or they had gone to labour instead then we would be looking at a coalition of labour /SNP and lib Dems to be in a similar position to conservatives now . Ukips vote disappeared back to old voting habits after serving its purpose of getting article 50 activated , so I do think that brexit was an important issue at this election and a lot of tactical voting going on too .
Post a Reply
Please sign in or register an account to reply to this post.
