Some pubs in Scotland might well find a drop in their business but less than a third of adults in Scotland do smoke (the proportion is even lower in the UK as whole where only just over 25% smoke - see http://www.ash.org.uk/) so many pubs might actually find that they experience an upturn in business as people like me who will only go into pubs under sufferance unless they have a separate non-smoking room are tempted back into them again once we can go without having to breathe in others secondhand smoke and return home with clothes that have to go straight into the washing machine because they stink of said smoke.

Just before Christmas I was in a busy pub just off the Royal Mile that only allowed smoking after 8.30pm when they stopped serving food. I was amazed to see that at 8.30pm there was a mass exodus from the place - it literally became half empty. My friend and I stayed on for a while and the pub stayed that way until we left at 9.30pm. I've no idea whether it began to fill-up again later but in this instance allowing smoking in the evening clearly lost them business from people who were attracted to it because of its no-smoking during the day and early evening rule.

I've had some happy holidays in the Algarve in the past but the worst aspect of it was always the smoky bars and cafes. I always visited in the Spring - the temperatures being too hot for me in the summer - and it was OK during the day when it was warm enough to sit outside but we rarely went out of an evening because it was impossible to find somewhere that was smoke free. Even though the people I was with were smokers, even they found it too much. There's a limit to how many hands of cards you want to play at home in your villa or apartment and the thought of smoke free bars might very well tempt us back again. La Gomera in the Canaries has replaced the Algarve as my out of season bolt hole mainly because most of the other visitors are German, there for the walking and much more health conscious, with the result that it is rare to see people smoking and the bars and cafes are much more pleasant places to be.

SM

Unfortunately the upturn in pub business has not happened in either ROI or in New York, where people have lost their jobs due to the downturn in business.

The national smoking statisitics are not relevant, the only people that matter are the ones who actually go to pubs on a regular basis and keep them financially viable. The middle class families who (might) pop in once a week, or on Christmas day with Aunt Maud, are not enough to sustain most licensed premises. They may well find their local pub closing down.

Traditionally the pub is a working class thing, and a more than 25% of working class people smoke.

By all means have no smoking pubs and clubs, but leave a choice. If the public demanded it, you can rest assured greedy big businesses like the pub chains and some breweries would have already latched on to the idea, if another buck was to be made out of it.

Interestingly, I have heard that one of the few public places you will still be able to light up in is the House of Commons bar, as normal Health and Safety regulations do not apply in the house. One law for them another for the rest of the people as usual.

We have been to Albufeira many times both during the summer and the winter and we have never experienced the smoke smelling clothes,but we experience it on a regular basis back here in England.We go to our local 3-4 times a week,by the way I am non smoker and my wife smokes.
We also use several different bars when over there on a daily basis (hi Perry).
Is it because bars in Portugal have better air conditioning/ventilation?

Lets get this right. Some people smoke , some don't. With the new law non smokers basically get their own way whereas smokers don't get a choice. I hardly see that as fair.

Best bet in my eyes is to have seperate pubs/bars, some smoking, others non smoking. Leave it to the pubs to choose but I bet you a majority of landlords would choose smoking.

SM, dont know if you live in Edinburgh or the east coast but belive me it wont wash on the west coast and as Algarveaddick has said, its been right bad for business in NY and especially Ireland. The law in Scotland was pushed mainly by Jack McConnell, no vote or anything. So much for democracy eh?? Smoking allowed in the Commons bar, now there's a surprise eh?

By the way, I dont smoke but I'm all for freedom of choice. Oh, and I wash my clothes every time after a night out whether smoky or not FYI. Dont be so Clatty

Lummie

S M writes;-"Just before Christmas I was in a busy pub just off the Royal Mile that only allowed smoking after 8.30pm when they stopped serving food. I was amazed to see that at 8.30pm there was a mass exodus from the place - it literally became half empty........"

Could this have just been people who had gone to the "pub" to eat and, having done so, went home?
Our village local was once a real pub which became a restaurant that just about tolerated those who just went for a drink and exactly the same thing used to happen there.( whether it still does, I can't say because, along with another dozen or so patrons, I now patronize a proper pub in the next village.)
I only hope that, when the Exchequer looks to recoup the lost revenue from tobacco, as they surely will, they leave aviation fuel alone - but I'm not hopeful
Lummie - could you please explain to a simple Welsh guy what " clatty " means - it's a new one to me !

Sagres, it means dirty or filthy, ie: lacking in hygiene.

Def: Clat, clatty - meaning filth, filthy, extremely dirty. "Luk at the clat o' yer man." or "she wis absolutley clatty".

So there you go.

Lummie (aka Stella)

Thanks,lummie.
H.T.'s not just fun - it's educational as well !!

Hi Kaz,

This turning into a smoking debate rather than helping you.

You mention a holiday for your kids is mixing with other Kids ( this is exactly the same with mine ), unfortunately you then maybe have to compromise on your accommodation. A villa is really no good as you need a complex to meet other kids. A nice self catering appartment in a mid size - large complex will give you plenty of kids/kids club then will also be the suspect evening entertainment but then this the time to go out for a meal.

Do you really need a 3 bed appartment because this will limit your choices, a 2 Bed appartemnt will have a lounge with a Sofa bed would one of the children not sleep on that or ask for a sinle bed to be put in one of the bedrooms and the 3 kids sleep in the same room. On a European holiday in Summer all you ever use your appartment for is sleeping.

Smoking, in my experience even if you had a smoker in your apparmtent the week before ( odds on this about 30% maybe even smaller ) ) the fact that people are not in the rooms much, the windows patio doors always open then the likelyhood of bad lingering smells is much smaller. If you were unlikey as you mention due to lack of carpets etc a little while with the patio doors open then any traces are likely to go. Please remember that even smokers on holdiay will often sit on balcony/patio rather than smoke inside ). You wont find complexes as big as Lykia World but you will find some nice ones with 2 or 3 pools and lovely beaches nearby.

Now where to go. I accept your reservations about Albufeira and you maybe best to avoid although the old town is quite different and you dont need to stay near the strip which is I guess is the very British area. Villamoura is nice and I think there would be enough in the evening as you say it is a stroll a meal perhaps a bar or I guess once your children have found friends they will want to go back to the complex to meet up with their new found friends. I have stayed in Olhos D'aqua which is fairly quiet but in between Villamoura and Albufiera so if you had a car or happy to use buses for going out in the evening then this might work I dont know anything about Lagos other than it is nothing like Lagos in Nigeria.

I am not experienced enough about all of Portugal but put a fresh posting on asking for NICE complexes for familes in resorts in Portugal and I am sure you will get more help.

You may find most of the bigger complexes with kids club pools etc are run by the major tour operators so you may want to llok in their brochures and then see if you can book direct with an e-mail to the complex and check different arrival dates.

I probably havent answered too much of your questions but one thing I will say with children of your age that unfortunately you need to compromise ( mine are 10 and 8 ). The holidays I have now would not be my ideal choice but if the kids are having a good time then I can, if they are not then I wont. A villa on its own is only any good if your kids are happy playing together in my family that means fighting after a very short while. Also most Villas in Portugal require a need for a car as they are away from towns and beaches.

List a new post about your likes and dislikes on holiday in regard of complexes and entertainment and I sure the good people on here will narrow it down for you.

Kind Regards
Stewart

yes, portugal is a heavy smoking nation, but so is spain and ireland and scotland. In fact it seems that nations with largest numbers of smokers are the first to embrace a ban in public places.

As for it not working, well, I think you might be suprised, I have visited all the counties involved in europe since smoking was banned and have yet to see anyone floutin the law. Drive by bars in ireland and scotlend and all the action now seems to be on the pavement outside. Italy seems to have a way around a full ban though as some bars have a special, enclosed room, in which you can smoke, although i would rather be ouytside than sitting in that fug.

So it will come to portugal, at some point in time, but it wont affect people anywhere near as much as in northern europe because for a large part of the year you can sit outside and eat/drink.

Carvoeiro is a great place for families. If you are in the main town area you will be max 5 minutes from the beach, most apartments have pools as well, there are loads of restaurants and bars. I have just bought an apartment there and I love it! I was not keen on either Vilamoura or Albufeira - the first is great is you like golf and the second just was not my cup of tea.