Just wanted to let everyone know that the DCFS (what used to be the Dept of Education) have recently issued 'guidance' for schools that word is used losely as they will expect schools to follow it. In real terms schools are now being told not to allow any holidays during term time and our LEA is chasing up any attendance that falls below 95%. The beginning of the school year is not a good time for holidays. Yes I totally sympathise with parts needed for heating etc, having been at the sharp end I know that 'parts' have been ordered at the beginning of the 6 week holiday and still have not arrived 6 weeks later, despite being chased up. This should come as no surprise to anyone in education, especially after today when I found out that our new intake lists for reception will be wrong after the Town Hall have changed the children being admitted!

Hi Milly Molly

If a parent has to take holidays at a specific time of year, which fall in term time, you would hope that the Head Teacher would look on it favourably. At the end of the day it is the Head Teacher and Governenrs who decide if they are going to allow 10 days holidays or not. You would hope common sense would prevail in this type of circumstances.
M

Hi Margaret, thanks for replying

Luckily for me, common sense has prevailed - both with our council local council as well as the school.
I won't have to worry next year.

My husbands holidays are always a fortnight forward on the year before.
So next year it'll be the last two weeks of August for our hols.

"Parents may see it as being last minute or not done before the start of the term...."

The reason we see it as that is because that is exactly what it is! It takes monumental incompetence (or downright laziness) not to have a school ready for use on the first day of term. No excuses, it's not rocket science! Schools can't demand that we present our kids on a certain day (despite our own work/holiday commitments) and then expect us to accept the fact that the school might not be ready. I think that's what is known as an unfair contract, which would not be enforcible in law if someone stood up to it.

I take it the unexpected never happens in your life?

It does in mine - like the day last September when I and other colleagues turned up at one of the teaching blocks to matriculate 100s of new postgraduate students just starting their University courses and the power had gone off overnight! Turned out there had been an overload at the substation and we were in the hands of the engineers to get it fixed. Absolute chaos because no power = no water pumps = no flushing of loos etc. We had no alternative but to send them all home with instructions to come back in the morning because matric day is the one day when you can count on the maximum numbers of students being on campus and there was simply no other accommodation available. It was touch and go as to whether it would be ready - we had been warned by the engineers when they were first alerted to the problem that it could takes weeks to fix depending on the damage done.

Despite having my own domestic central heating serviced annually, that doesn't make me immune to breakdowns. Nor did it make the central heating system at a youth centre I was responsible for immune either. We always had the central heating serviced over the summer in order to try and ensure that it was ready for the coming winter. But it didn't prevent the caretaker from having to phone me up the week before we should have been re-opening to tell me that when she'd gone in to check everything that she couldn't get the boiler re-started. That took a week sort to out because a part that had been functioning at the time of the service had seized up over the summer shutdown, took a week to be delivered and fitted. We were told that it was because we'd shut the boiler down completely, something we'd been told to do by the LEA which ran the Centre because the previous summer the boiler blew up in a nearby primary school and had blown the roof off! That had resulted in the school being closed for 3 months after wards. Sometimes you just can't win no matter what you do!

SM

Colin, you obviously know it all!

btw this ISN'T Mrs Chivas!

Thanks for your reply Mrs Chivas. I am still waiting for the outcome from the Head. The thing that annoys me about all the fuss that's made is the fact that my son's school appears to be on 'wind down' already and has been for the last 2 weeks...he doesn't break up until a week Tuesday. I know rules and guidelines are there for a reason but I really do not see that taking a child out of school for a few days at the end of the year will affect them educationally. I personally wouldn't take them out of school at the start of the year in Sept as I agree that it's an important settling in time, but I do think that equally, a family holiday is important too so can understand why some people would do it.

I agree about the last few weeks of the term Nic - my son had exams in late June and has done hardly anything since.

There's been trips to Alton towers, there's been voluntary workshops, there's been moving class rooms from one end
of the building to the other, watching DVDs and more DVD's, and more DVD's...you get the picture.

On Friday he came home with a letter (I am still fuming about it) with a list as long as your arm of stuff they
MUST have on Monday 21st July AFTER they break up from school at lunchtime on Friday 18th July, because he
and some others are doing their Duke of Edinburgh award! (2 days and 1 night away from home.)

Nothing like short notice!
OK, I know the teachers are giving up their time too.
But why on earth couldn't this have been done during these past few weeks when the kids have been doing nothing?

A weeks notice to get all the stuff together...wonderful! (It's not just a bog standard back pack they need , of which we have loads. Oh no, it's got to be a 55lt rucksack, with all the
shebang that goes in them....billy cans, waterproofs etc...)

And we won't talk about the plans and arrangements we'd made for a weekend trip. :

Milly_Molly can I come and work in your son's school please, we are all still flat out... ok we had a 'festival' day last week but that was manic and we have sports day on Wednesday but I would love to be able to sit the children down and watch a dvd with them, there is still so much to be done. Please don't blame the teachers for the short notice as 1) they may not have been told until recently what equipment was required 2) the letter may have been waiting to be typed by admin staff! Hope all goes well with the D of E and it is enjoyable (not the buying of course).

Oh Dear Milly Molly, looks like you have a bit of shopping to do then! Don't envy you having to get that lot sorted I'm sure your son will have a great experience though and well worth doing.

SMa...thanks for that useful snippet about Uni entry and the GCSE results. I didn't know that and am heartened that middle daughter who got good GCSE results has an improved chance of getting into her preferred Uni. I thought that the A2 results were the clincher.

I do understand the predicament that some people have regarding set times for their partner's annual leave but surely the kids's education should be No.1 priority .

We might have taken the kids out during term time, perhaps at the end of term for a day ot two when they were in juniors but once they hit Seniors definitely not. It puts them at a great disadvantage regarding coursework and homework and being a reliable and dependable member of the "group" is important with regards character building. All skills that stand you in good stead in the future with regards individual status at school and in the workplace beyond.There's more to school than just turning up for class .

I just want to ask the members who would not take their kids out of school -have you ever had trouble in getting your holidays during the school holidays ?

My husbands holidays were tied to certain weeks and I work in a bank and we can only allow a certain amount of staff off at a time so that we can keep the branch running properly.

We have done just about every combination you can think of, we've managed some years to get the weeks off during the holidays , sometimes going away if we could afford it -we've done uk holidays/breaks and also spent 2 weeks at home if money was tight.

During the last few years my husbands job would allow him to choose the month he would take his holidays but he was restricted to the middle weeks of that month , the holiday co-ordinator where I work would try to allocate the school holidays in 3 blocks of 2 weeks so that everyone who needed it would get school holidays , my problem was that my husbands weeks would occasionally fall as weeks 4 and 5 of the 6 weeks and caused major problems with holiday alloction. We would have to take mid July one year and take the kids out of school for a few days at the end of term and make a deal that I got the August weeks the next year
Cost was never the major issue for me, (we've had years where we've done caravans in Scarborough, and 2 weeks in the costa del back garden) but time together as a family was the prime concern.

So I would really like to know if the posters who say they would never do it have ever had an issue with getting the time off during the school holidays.
If you haven't then I envy you , I really do as where I work we've had a lot of upset over the years regarding this issue .I'm lucky now as my boys don't come on holiday with us now so we go away in june and September and my husband has also changed his job and is much more flexible .

Hi hbrac,

I wouldn't want to leave you with the impression that As aren't important - they still are - but in the absence of the final A level results admissions tutors will always compare what's predicted with what's already been achieved at GCSE level and good GCSE results will always swing it. I've seen what have turned out to be grossly inflated predictions from schools and which the GCSE results indicated the student was never going to achieve unless the student had REALLY, REALLY changed in what they were capable of and hence I would be suspicious of the predicted grades. And when faced with two potential students who are both predicted to achieve the same grades at A level I would offer the place to the student who'd achieved the higher grades at GCSE.

But whatever you do don't tell your daughter! Good GCSE grades don't meant that she can afford to take it easy with her As

SM

Colin,

Actually it is a lot harder than you would think to get schools ready. Yes we have a 6 week window but every school in the country has waited for that window so that they can get stuff done. Thus contractors can charge sky high prices and they frequently take on more work than they can cope with. Thus when we go in a day or so before the kids we seem to be entering a building site! Frequently in my school we have had contractors working 24 hours to get jobs that should have taken a couple of days completed before the kids arrive. In old buildings such as ours jobs often expand as working on one problem frequently uncovers more. When many schools were built no-one made any note of if and where asbestos was used. Thus a 1 day job of removing a partition for instance suddenly becomes a month's work as they find asbestos behind it. Once found it has to be removed. A quick remodelling of our canteen that should have taken a week ended up with a 3 month closure of the kitchens because of this.

For what it's worth I have no problems with parents taking their kids out of my classes to go on holiday. I used to do it myself before I became a teacher. The child will miss some work (OK this last 2 weeks they won't have although in my school they will have missed loads of specially organised activities). In years 10 and 11 (and I suppose 12 and 13 although my school does not have a VI form) there is a danger that kids will miss important module tests and coursework. Modules can usually be re-sat and coursework can be done in spare time if the child is willing. As long as the parent accepts that not being in school can have a negative effect on their child's results than fine. However I am not the Headteacher and it is she that gets it in the neck off OFSTED if the schools attendance is below target.

I haven't taken my kids out of school for a holiday in the last 10 years however I did take them out for 4 days last yr prior to the october half term whilst we took a 10 day holiday.
This was granted by my sons primary school , but as the secondary changed their rules on hols in term time , they unfortunatly had a viral infection. It was just not worth the rigamoral of applying and I am sure many parents don't!

I would much rather my children not miss school for holidays and we always try and go in the 6 week perid - Fortunatly for us, getting time off hasnt been a problem and affordable holidays have become attainable since we discovered DIY - We have also resigned ourselves to school hols inflation until my youngest finishs school in 6 years time , besides once you pay to keep the kids entertained at home during the hol's , you may as well go away.

I do understand that there are reasons why people choose not to go in holidays however Common sense must however prevail - I wouldnt take my kids out of school without first researching the academic calender - We know yrs 10 and 11 will have coursework and in some cases exams throughout the year as well as May and June , We also know SATS occur in May and secondary open evenings etc in September/October.
I wouldnt remove them if I didnt feel they could catch up the missed work , and you never know what is round the corner , you may think a yr 10 can catch up on 2 weeks school work in no time but my daughter came down with glandular fever in year 10 and missed 3 weeks schooling through this - This was very diificult to catch up with but imangine the impact had she also missed 2 weeks through holidays.
I do think if you are going to miss any school then the last few days of term are probably the least vital , but my yr 6 would have been horrified to miss out on the last day of primary school or the first few days of secondary.
A friend of mine always takes her kids out of school for hol's - the eldest not only missed her end of school prom (importnat night in the social calender) but has before had to fly home earlier than the rest of the family to take an important exam which hadn't been picked up on when the holiday was booked.

Each to there own , but I would not forgive myself if the need for a holiday had a detrimental effect on my child's educational progress and with 175 non school days each year , it would have to be quite extreme circumstances not to take your family holiday in school hol's - problem is holidays in DEcember , January , Febuary etc do not offer the same choice as the summer sun programme.

Thanks Nic and Nels.

Well it seems like I wasn't the only unhappy parent over the Dof E.

Now we have been informed that the school are providing the rucksacks, water proofs,
billy cans and a few more bits and pieces.

Thankfully most of the other stuff we already have here so it's not going to cost me
much, if anything after all!

But why the school couldn't tell us they had so much of the kit to start with....
Why wait until quite a few irate parents call on the school? Grr!!!!

Nels, my son has had 3 lessons in 2 days.
Football (pe lesson) German and Maths.

The rest of the time he has been helping teachers move classrooms, watching DVD's or
participating in general knowledge quizzes organised by a few staff members.
(That's not so bad )

Today he and quite a few others have been invited to a party (lunchtime) laid on by the staff
as a thank you to them all for participating in all the masses, ceremonies, shows etc the school
has put on or been involved in throughout this last school year.

(He plays guitar, piano, keyboard, harmonica and much to the distress of the music teachers,
didn't want to take music as a GCSE)

Other than that - he doesn't think he'll have more lessons again.
Infact, he said he's taking his footie stuff in incase they can get in a game during one lesson.

I just wonder why they couldn't have gone and done the D of E this week?

Talking of which...I had better go and give him a shout....

interesting thread as my daughters secondary school have just introduced no authorisation of term time holidays.

The fines - yet another.
stealth tax in my opinion !

Re commitment to Education - off course I'm committed to my childrens education but education takes place other than in the classroom and my children have benefitted in many ways from holidays we have taken we always learn about other religions, culture, history, geography etc etc.

Final point - a close friend has the money to send her children to a private school - they have totally different terms to us and therefore she is able to access cheap holiday deals in January and September when my kids have gone back to school.

I'm taking a group of kids to the USA at the end of September. They will miss a weeks lessons and they are all in years 11, 12 or 13. However it is an educational trip so it is authorised!

Why couldn't there have been those sort of educational trips when I was at school?