I'm glad you got some money back on a trip which was obviously mis-sold! I also can't believe some of the responses you got on here! People very quick to shoot you down and now it turns out your were correct in most of what you said! Ok you should have put sunblock on but for them to say a 12 year old could do it then I'm sure most adults would feel ok!
Fact is, and it's been admited, is that a 12 year old certainly couldn't be expected to do this!

Can you imagine what could have happened if a 12 year old did go on this trip! Most 12 year olds are fit as anything but wouldn't have been strong enough for such a trip!

Now the 'from 12 years of age' part is being removed from the brosure for this walk and if it wasn't for you and others on your walk then maybe there could have been a serious accident or even death because it sounds like no way should a 12 year old be doing this!!!

Also it's certainly a good job that you DIDN'T just put it down to experience else nothing would have been done!

Good for you!

Thanks for the votes of support finally.

This was always my point from the start - not that I was holding anykind of moral highground. I always accepted that maybe I should have guessed that it would be tough. The point was that these types of activity are mis-sold and it will take a very strong guide (who obvioulsy has little part in pre-selecting those signing up) to turn people away.

Even though I'm glad it didn't happen, it would be interesting to see what would have happened if a 'strong' 12 year old had turned up at the top of the ridge...

Just thought I would also paste a link to my pics on Flickr of the holiday so you can see the two suspects creating all the fuss. If this works it will link to a picture of the two of us at the bottom of the ridge having just descended it at the start. If you look through my set of holiday pics on there you will get some idea of how you could be fooled into thinking it's a bimble...or maybe not!

Cheers again for the comments - good and bad - forums like this are one of the most useful things on the net and I will crtainly be checking it out again before going anywhere!

Ooops - apparently I can't paste a link so hopefully I'll be allowed to paste the below and leave you all who are interested to put http in front - please Mr or Miss Moderator

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3080/2843089209_7f52776a98.jpg

I fail to see why we are talking about if a 12 year old could be considered unable to do this, when according to the OP her son is aged 18. I would also say that I do know many 12 year olds who would have no problem.

Might not be a popular viewpoint but here is another case of placing the blame on someone else (the organisers) rather than accepting a personal "duty of care"

Adventurous activity holidays are exactly what they say on the packet. It is the responsibility of anyone taking part to ensure - before they go - they are fully aware of what is involved and they are capable. When I was involved in running mountain walking courses the introductory words were always the same. Any idiot can be carried off a mountain.

The guide, from what is written, was doing his job. Yes at times it may seem unfeeling when pushing someone, but safety is of paramount importance and the touchy, caring approach does not work in such circumstances.

I would dispute the miss selling claim. Possibly it is the glamorising of the great outdoors that needs addressing. A beautiful landscape and a clear blue sky is what the inexperienced see and desire. It is not always what it seems.

I have had many funny looks coming down off a mountain on a bright summer day because we were dressed in foul weather gear and all the other kit. Those who gave us the looks had not spent the last several hours in wind, snow and rain. And that is in June in the UK

fwh

sorry mate. Can't seem to get it to work!

I fail to see why we are talking about if a 12 year old could be considered unable to do this, when according to the OP her son is aged 18. I would also say that I do know many 12 year olds who would have no problem.

erm maybe it's because the tour organisers admited that 12 year old shouldn't go on the trip???????

So maybe, just maybe people might think it can't be that bad if young kids can do it!!!
But as it turns out Young kids SHOULDN'T have been allowed to do it! So therefore it shouldn't have given the impression that it was fine for kids! Which it did!

It'd be like going to Alton Towers and letting your 6 year old child go on a ride which says 'For ages 6 and above'. Then when your child gets knocked about a man comes along and changes the sign saying all along it should have said ' For ages 12 and above' The 6 and above sign should be on a different ride!

That fact alone means if a 12 year old had gone on this trip and got hurt then the organisers would be in trouble!

I don't know though! Maybe thats why 12 year olds keep getting mentioned!!!

Here is the link to the full set if the moderators don't mind doing their thing again
http://flickr.com/photos/theimaginator/sets/72157607203025411/

I see some debate is still on-going I do believe that fmh is being overly defensive of the people putting the trip together. I am sure as an active mountaineer he knows many 12 year olds who would relish a walk on the glacier and be fit enough to. I would also accept that most people going on an activity holiday in the French Alps would accept it's going to be tough.

The only point I am making is that it is still a largely unregulated area in terms of how trips etc are represented and then sold. Irrespective of what the sheet said and irrespective of what the company now intends to do, their rep stood in front of us and sold this trip purely on the excitement with no caution at all as to it physical nature. Maybe the end of the season attracts less typical activity seekers? As it is out of a party of 6 'average' holiday makers in the hotel - 2 were clearly unsuitable for the trip and 2 were only just fit enough. All it would have taken for me not to potentially put myself and my son in danger was something like "be warned, this is a physically demanding trip and should only be booked if you are happy as to your having a good level of fitness" - it doesn't detract it just sets an expectation.

Anyway, lesson learned

Perry

I have been reading this thread very carefully. I have learned a great deal from it, and have seen good points made in the discussion.

I am very grateful that you and your son made it safely back Perry, and hope that you will be able to put the incident behind you and continue with your holiday and find many more things to do that you will be able to add to your happy memories. All good wishes xxxxxxxx

Perry,

The photos are FAB - I just copied and pasted the text into my browser in IE 7 and it worked fine...

A few scary moments by the sounds of it, but I'm sure when you look back on those photos again in a few months time, there will be some smiles at the memories.... The scariest ones that come out right in the end are always the best...

We went to Austria a few years ago in the early part of May and had glorious weather except for the day we decided to take the trip up to one of the summer ski areas. It was overcast when we left in the morning and as we went up the cable car (the funicular had set on fire in the tunnel the previous year and a lot of people were killed), we disappeared into heavy cloud and it was deathly silent.

We then had to take 2 more chairlifts to the top of the resort and it was beautiful but just starting to snow. We went and had lunch and during the hour we were in the restaurant, it had turned into a full scale blizzard. The snow ploughs were out and going back down, was just a white out. The cable car was swinging like hell on the last leg. Scary - but very exciting! On reaching ground level - it was absolutely pouring down and was blowing a gale. Freezing cold too. Such a change in the weather was quite unbelievable. It's a trip we will always remember - but for varying reasons.

You are all back safe, which is the main thing...

CwB

Hi pesman - and son - super photos. Glad that everything worked out OK. I am sure that when you are back to UK and reality, your son will score many brownie points with the hair-raising stories of his trip from hell. All best wishes - Jenny x

Late Update
Just when I had pretty much forgotten about this incident, I have received a surprising phone call from CEO of Alpine Elements expressing concern about my incident and asking if the matter had been resolved to my satisfaction by the other company. The reason for the call became obvious when he also emailed me offering me a 10% discount and asking politely if I would remove this thread. For now, I have said no as I feel my point remains valid and the feedback from posters was balanced.

It is good to know that these threads are being read and that my experience is serving as a warning to others to be careful. He has assured me that he will be aiming to increase the number of his resort staff with experience of the trips so hopefully in the future no one else will have to endure what I and the group went through. I still feel that the company owns a duty of care to it's customers to be able to offer meaningful advise and guidance as to just how demanding the various activities offered are and I am glad steps are beign taken to improve this situation.

I think people certainly need to take responsibility when opting to go on adventure holidays. While it may have been better for them to make it clear what 'strong' meant etc, I think it's always wise to ask if you aren't familiar with this type of activity. The sunblock situation is a no brainer. This isn't the scouts. People should take more responsibilty for themselves and this trip certianly highlights this. Maybe it will make people realise they can't just get a glimpse of adventure/wilderness without any of the risk. This vaguely reminds me of that damn train up Mt Snowdon with white trainer clad chavs arseing around on the summit causing havoc. People trying to get a sense of adventure but totally shouldn't be there. In a way you can blame these tour companies for promoting trips without really clarifying matters. They are intent on getting unfit people to every corner of the globe and causing chaos along the way.

This company isnt alone in underestimating the fitness of participants.
When I went to Sharm last year the rep made the climb up to Mount Sinai sound like a walk in the park!