Hi Lyn

Not an enviable position to be in.

Have a look at this

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/flight-delays#catch

It does look like strikes aren't included but haven't studied it. They might be able to get a refund from the airline for the cost of the inbound leg and then rebook another flight if there are any.

Hope they get sorted ok.

Thanks sunaddict .

Also found the CAA website confirming they are entitled to find another flight and seek reimbursement for the return leg from KTHY http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=125&pagetype=90&pageid=6480 but looks like they could be stuffed by "Strike action" . Also seems to only apply to Flights within Europe. I know Turkey isnt part of the EU but they classed as being within Europe for flights and other purposes

The problem with looking to take a flight with another airline is going to be seat availability. No doubt many others will be trying to do the same thing which will create problems anyway. A single person or couple may be able to do so, but in their cases it is two families not two seats.

I suppose the consolation is that they have been put up in a hotel.

fwh

I suppose the consolation is that they have been put up in a hotel.

Yes they have and a nice hotel too Frank which indicates that the airline is looking after them and fully intends to get them home at some point .

Understandably their patience is wearing thin with the lack of information and can only last so long before they really need to know what their rights in this situation are particularly when they should all be in work tomorrow after a 3 week holiday

A few years ago we were affected by the Menorca coach drivers strike and ended up having to stay an extra 2/3 nights in another hotel until we were flown home to a different airport. We were covered by our travel insurance of X amount per so many hours. (Can't remember the exact details now). We received I think about £100+ as it's per person.

Get them to check their travel insurance, and I'd suggest they give them a call to explain their situation.

Thanks Glynis . I rang him earlier and he hadnt even thought to check with the insurance . Dont know how he got on but hopefully they will put them straight .

I didnt think Travel insurance covered you for delayed flights caused by strike action

Not sure re flights as ours was coach drivers but would have thought any strike that prevents flights leaving should be the same? In saying that Lyn the insurance companies could have changed their rules since our problem. Years ago you were covered for anxiety attacks but not anymore on most policies.

Hi,

We were delayed in May for 24 hours due to the greek strikes. We were given a room for the night at the Gatwick Hilton with food etc and also we could claim £50 / per person in compensation from our insurance company for each 24 hour period up to a maximum of £150 ( I think). I think this is standard in most insurance policies.
We managed to make the most of it and had a nice day out in Brighton, not quite the same weather but hey it was better than hanging around the airport.

Thanks why1 for a more recent update on insurance claims regarding this matter. I wasn't 100% sure due to our problem being so long ago

No Probs, also having never claimed for anything before (other than xl collapse) I found it really easy to claim, the t/a gave us a piece of paper detailing the time and we just sent that to the insurasers and within 7 days it was paid.

Same here. We got a form/letter from the rep and we too didn't have any problems. Let's hope Lyn's family get sorted asap.

Lyn

the rules are better explained here. Note they specifically refer to EU not Europe so the long discussion of whether Turkey counts as Europe doesn't apply, you need the third option. And that doesn't give them very much I'm afraid!

If the flight was actually cancelled rather than delayed indefinately (and it sounds like is it was) then there is a similar page, with a similar ending, but the insurance option should kick in.

hmm . Thanks Steve . looks like they will largely be relying on their insurance company then . Both families have different there so it will be interesting to see how they fair .

Latest I had this morning was that after the airline were threatened with Media involvement they had suddenly managed to sort them out a flight this evening . will let you all know as we are now getting on for 3 days.

lyn

Just to update you they are now all home safely .

They are going to attempt to persue a claim for compensation dependant on what is claimable from their travel insurance as over the course of the 3 days and 2 nights delay they only had breakfast provided . They had to pay for all their lunches and evening meals . Many passengers had been on A/I whilst on holiday and didnt have a bean left .

What we are not sure about at present (phone calls need to be made) is whether their flight comes under no. 2 or 3 on that link you kindly provided Steve . My nephew seems to think he needs to check with the airline whether they are part of "the european air charter " or something along those lines .

Whilst cyprus-Turkish airlines are a Turkish Airline they appear to be based in Northern Cyprus which corret me if I'm wrong is part of the EU.

for one nephew his travel insurance (with his barclays bank account) looks to be very good . Over a 12 hours delay he has been told £40 per hour once he gets over the 12 hours but this is subject to a maximum of £600 per passenger , excess and maxium hours at that rate and they have also told him to put in any claims for food and communication as these may be covered , so we shall see .

Other nephew has insurance via work at Lloyds TBS and their bank account with them and only gets peanuts i.e the usual £20 for each 12 hours and doesnt appear to be able to claim for anything else .

lyn

Hmm maybe not http://ec.europa.eu/enlargement/turkish_cypriot_community/index_en.htm

Looks like their head office is Nicosia . Thought that was greek side but according to their roling news here Northern Cyprus http://www.kthy.net/kthyen/index.html

Definately North side.

You've got an interesting argument but you're in very murky waters. If you read the UK Customs notices about allowances that they put up in airports there is a relevant statement. The UK Government does not recognise Northern Cyprus as a legal state, the customs notice says that the whole of Cyprus is part of the EU and then mentions special rules for "that part not under the control of the Government of the Republic of Cyprus". So a UK court would have to find that the airline is an EU one but how would they enfore a ruling if the recognised Government has no control there? I suspect the CAA won't want to touch this with a long stick until a court ruled they had to. Anyone on a package could probably claim from the tour operator but otherwise it's an insurance job.

The problem does however highlight once again the importance of checking your insurance. I accept that cheapest does not mean rubbish or expensive mean the best, but I wonder how many simply buy without actually reading it through first?

fwh

As we seem to be looking at the application of EC 261/2004-the flight appears to have been from Turkey to the UK.

Ec 261/2004 would only apply if the carrier was a "community carrier".

Is the carrier a community carrier? The carrier may have its "legal base" in Northern Cyprus-which is now part of the EU but for EC 261/2004 the determining criteria would be which state issued its Operating Certificate (according to the definitions within EC 261/2004).

This isnt clear-not least from the carriers own web portal. There are other suggestions that the airline's operating certificate might in fact be Turkish. (Whether the carrier would wish to make this an issue is anyone's guess if it came to an argument but it woul be the determining criterion).

Two points.

Art 19 of the Montreal Convention which would apply for air carriage between Turkey and the UK would ostensibly allow passengers to claim for damage resultant from delay during the course of carriage by air. This may apply a possible alternative cause of action. If the place of destination was England this would also allow an English court to be a forum for proceedings.

Did any of the family members also incur any other liquidaited and proveable damages such as loss of earnings? This might be recoverable under this possible claim?

(There may also be possible and potential contractual law remedies but the international aspects may make this more problematic).

Leaving aside the theoretical aspects-if the carrier chose to ignore any submitted claims-it might be worth looking at insurance policies for any legal expenses cover they provide. It appears only relatively few travel insurance policies provide legal expenses insurance for a dispute regarding the journey (as opposed to a claim for personal injuries-the type of claims that tend to get lawyers excited anyway). (There appear to be some exceptions such as Direct Line and Churchill)

Some household (house contents) insurance policies have wider coverage for legal expenses for generic consumer disputes that might include such a potential dispute with an airline. It would be worth checking if you are serious in taking matters further.

Finally with regard to the travel insurance "late departure" compensation amounts.
Here is a potentially interesting point ( I think). Could your family members claim these amounts and also make an additional claim against the carrier for their losses?
If the policy is not one of indemnity (which a fixed tariff of compensation would suggest it isnt) does the general rule of subrogation apply? If the travel insurance policy does not apply a specific assignement to the insurer in the policy wording-is there anything precluding the passenger claiming from the travel insurer for their fixed "compensation" and also claiming from the airline for liquidated losses?

This may be an interesting question to ask the travel insurer if a claim is made against them in any event. (i.e does the travel insurer assert a right of subrogation or assignment-and if so why and how?)

There is a specialised discussion forum at Flightmole that looks in detail at claims under EC 261/2004/Montreal Convention-where many people have successfully challenged airlines under EC 261/2004 and obtained compensation and looks at these claims in more depth. May be worth a look.

Thanks Ula, that's useful stuff, especially the reminder about household policies.

Buried in their website is a page about Certification http://www.kthy.net/kthyen/kurumsal/sertifikalarimiz.html and it does state that they have a Turkish Civil Aviation Approval Certificate. That makes sense, if the government of northern Cyprus isn't legally recogised anywhere (except Turkey) then papaerwork they issue won't be much use.