SuperAC1,

Firstly Welcome

I Am Sorry To Hear About The Difficulties With Your Flights. I Fortunatly Have Never Been In That Situation, But It Must Be Distressing If You Are And Especially As It Is The Airlines Fault.

I Would Not Be Able To Guide You Directly, As I Am Not Quite Sure What The Law Would Be Here

However I Can Recomend Two Things Which Might Help To Start With:

1) Try Contacting The UK Air Transport User Council (Who Try To Help With Complaints Against Airlines) Website Here

Also Here At Holiday-Truths We Have A Complaints Forum And This Information That Has Been Posted May Be Of Some Help To You:

Glynis HT Admin wrote:

The aim of this section of the holiday-truth website is to enable holidaymakers to get advice and assistance as soon as possible on any holiday complaints or problems encountered.

Our members will be able to offer you advice on how best to deal with your holiday complaints and how to deal with the Tour Operators. However please remember that this will be non qualified advice. We therefore suggest you seek professional assistance from someone qualified in Travel Law.

We have teamed up with Ros Fernihough, Travel Law Solicitor, to provide the best information available.

Ros has offered our members free impartial legal advice. Please note that Ros does not read or post on this board any contact to her must be made via :-

The direct number to Ros's PA Pam is 01922 705134

Or try the switchboard number 01922 633214 and ask for Travel Dept.

Taken From Here

What Ever You Decide To Do I Wish You Good Luck, And I Am Sure We Would All Be Interested If You Are Willing To Keep Us Informed

Gower

Hi,

Seems BMI made a right pickle of the situation for something i think could have been recitfied at check in or the the handling agents desk, although i don't know what bmi allow the local agent to do.

I think what they have offered is basically quite standard and the eu compensation i feel is right as the others were legally allowed to board but decided not to because of the situation (tbh, i would have done the same as you).
I think what you could pursue is for compensation for the shear hassle and distress this must have caused you and your family plus having to have say another 3 days leave.
I think you need to get professional advice on this as all the other expenses wouldn't have happened considering they allowed you to travel out.
The airline isn't technically responsible for any other costs and this applies to virtually every airline, it just depends on how they treat the situation and what their customer services dept authorise.

I hope you keep us posted on this one, could be interesting but i think they have made a standard offer and it now needs to go to the next level but please seek advice first.

Good Luck

Excellent advice has already been given. Whilst it is a different situation and case to your own perhaps you might like to read through this thread which involves one of our moderators - Mark. It does give a good indication of the manner in which they try to wriggle out of their responsibilities. Personally I think you should pursue your action for reimbursement. You are talking about a "family" here not a group of friends. The distress factor on the (young) children should you have returned with them leaving your wife behind would not be something any of us would wish to happen. For that alone I think a court would look favourably on you.

They may be correct technically in what they say but morally it is indefensible. You could also consider contacting the press - not the red tops - as I am sure they would be interested in following up on such a story and perhaps making use of their clout.

I am sure that other members may be able to give you some advice but you should remember, whilst they may be able to point you in the right direction of rules and regulations they are only personal opinions.

fwh

just a thought
would the children be old enough to have their own seats or would they have to be on an adults lap
(i dont know the age limits)
if this is the case then they would all have to travel together
hoipe you get some success
have you contacted Ros Fernhough she always gets a mention on here
she is a travel lawyer

What a difficult situation! Were you offered, or did you ask about, the option of simply paying the admin fee to have the name changed? Their terms and conditions suggest that this can be done up until 3 hrs before check-in. But what really confuses me is that according to their website BmiBaby only fly to Lisbon from Manchester not Birmingham. It now looks as if they only operate flights to Faro from Birmingham so your booking must have been for some time in the past when they were presumably still operating the Birmingham/Lisbon route?

Could you clarify exactly when this incident happened? You say that you booked the flights last year but when did you fly? As you say that you are only now getting around to sorting out the compensation, this could be important because if a lengthy period has passed since the incident you might have a weaker case now as they could perhaps argue that any claim now is 'out of time'?

SM

What a dreadful situation. I always thought that with children so young, there had to be one adult for each child travelling. By all means correct me if i am wrong and good luck with the claim.

Linsi

The flight was September 2008 but I have been advised that you can make the claim for anytime up to 6 years after the event. Indeed bmi have pulled out of Birmingham since.

The trouble with bmi is that unlike most of the others they have no rep in some of the airports. they basically let the airport handle the check in etc. Therefore when there is a problem like this in one of those airports the rep contacts their superiors who basically say 'tell them they have to sort it out with bmi' which is as you can understand impossible with the 'queueline' phones which never answer.

The children were both over 2 years and therefore had to have their own seats. We paid for 4 individual seats. However I have read somewhere else about 'illegal speration' where partners are forced to part against their will. If in this case I had been told I had to leave my wife behind when it was their mistake does this no cover it?

At the end of the day I was due to start work the next day. My wife too. She drives I don't. We had spent all our money. So I would've got to Birmingham Airport at 9pm with 2 very young children and suitacses etc. with no money and unable to drive the car home. I would then still have had to be off work to look after the children etc. bmi have larelady refunded the replacement flight and coaches to Faro for all 4 passengers which to me is an admission that they consider the group booking as a contract and not individual contracts. It is costs incurred, compensation etc they are refusing.

Noone offered me any options other than giving me bmi's phone number. No 'admin charge' etc and it was 1 hour until the flight left when we got to the checkout desk. We got to the queue about an hour and ahalf before the flight but then spent another half hour in the queue waiting.

I have now passed this on to EU Claim who say they are going for all 4 lots of standard compensation. Nothing r.e. any other costs though. I may speak to Ros just to see where I stand and make sure that I am not cutting myself short.

Thanks for the replies andI will keep you all updated.

AC

hi

i do sympathise with you over this and i wouldnt want to be separated from my husband and children and would have done exactly the same as you did, but i have to say arriving 1.5 hrs before a flight with 2 young children is cutting it very fine or is that normal for bmibaby as ive never used them , but even when ive got priority boarding with easy jet and i can book 45 mins before the flight i would never leave it that late and always arrive a minimum 2-3 hrs before the flight, not sure if you had arrived in plenty of time would it have helped who can answer that but it certainly would have given you longer to sort the mess out, apart from that i wish you luck and hope you get it sorted, ros helped me get my holiday from hell sorted so i highly recommend her

The check in only opened 2 hours before the flight and with 2 young children the less time waiting around in the airport the better. We would have been to the plane in plenty of time too. We were only staying a 20 minute drive from Lisbon airport and probs got there about 2 hours before theflight but by the time we got to the check out desks it was about an hour and a half.

We haven't flown budget since then. Easyjet from Luton to Lisbon the year earlier left our bags in Luton and we had to wait 24 hours for all of our luggage!!! That was after having only 2 desks open for the flight and we were in the queue for 95 minutes. With 5 minutes till the flight was scheduled to leave and a near riot developing from a still long queue they opened the Barcelona desks for the Lisbon passengers to get them through!!! That calmed the Lisbon passenges down but the anger transferred to the Barcelona queue. When we got to the boarding they were treating everbody as if they had come at the last minute when it was their idiocy in only having 2 desks open that caused half the plane to be late. I suppose they left all their bags at Luton too!!! On that occasion I asked about compensation and they replied 'It will be under 24 hours so you are not entitled'

Prior to Luton we flew from East Midlands to Faro and got the train from Faro to Luton but it is a long day then. Leaving our house at 2am to get to an airport at 3-4am to get a flight at 6am, arriving in Faro at 9am and then having to wait until 2pm for a train etc. We used to get to our final destination early evening. OK when they were babies but not at 2/3/4 years old which was why we started to fly direct into Lisbon.

We only flew from Luton twice and both times it was like a cattle grid with chaos everywhere which was why we switched to Birmingham and bmi last year
This year we flew TAP into Lisbon from Heathrow. Was a delight. No check in queue we arrived an hour before flight, checked in and no problems at all. smooth as silk. We flew BA back and again very short queue plus several staff there to sort out any problems before the checkout (avoids clogging one desk up). Was cheaper than Easyjet too at the time we booked (only a month before the flight.) Oh and a free meal on the flight which being larger planes were shorter flights. Joy oh Joy. Get there quicker. dont get charged £3.50 for a tiny snack. No charge for a coffee and no maniacal charge to get decent seats together. Weather was too hot though 17 days of mid-thirties sun with not a minute of relief. Could have done with a couple of overcast days in the middle.

AC

SuperAC1 wrote:

Oh and a free meal on the flight which being larger planes were shorter flights. Joy oh Joy. Get there quicker. dont get charged £3.50 for a tiny snack.

easyJet planes are just as fast as TAP & BA, bigger doesn't quicker!

When I used to fly to Lisbon from Luton the flights were longer. maybe Portugal runway control make them wait longer or something but the TAP and BA at 2-20 were between 15 and 30 minutes shorter than all previous trips from a London airport to Lisbon via the budget airlines. Definately shorter trip but if it isn't from speed then must be a 'prioritising' issue with traffic controllers? No idea.

AC

I guess it all depends on how many engines/weight/wind speed!

I guess maybe I have had more bad experiences than most on them Easyjet from East midlands or Coventry to Faro were fine so can't really complain
AC

With regard to the OP's request for advice-there is in effect a complicated potential dispute which I'm sure involves some quite possible novel legal aspects to it. (This may be unsurprising in view of the relative youth of EC 261/2004 for example upon which most focus appears to have been addressed).

The only adequate method of searching out the advice sought is from someone qualified to give such advice-a competent lawyer in my view.

Reference to an entirely and foreign unregulated "claims management" company based in a foreign jurisdiction may not be an obvious source for such advice. Do they claim to offer advice? Are they competent to give such advice? Will they be responsible for the adequacy of any advice delivered?

The underlying difficulty here for the OP may be the cost of obtaining such competent advice compared with the potential amounts in issue and the risks of future attempts to examine these complex issues and in so far as they might involve potentially costly legal proceedings.

The real problem facing the OP is therefore to examine as a preliminary.
1) Whether there is any pre-existing source of funding for such advice and any dispute
2) Which legal advisor might be best placed to provide the advice sought (this second question would be tied to the first question-on the assumption that the lawyer would expected to be rewarded for his/her efforts).

Some travel insurance policies and perhaps rather more household insurance policies provide ostensibly provide legal expenses coverage for a dispute relating to a journey. Often those insurers expect to be be notified of a potential claim within a given time frame-180 days is not unsual.

Even if this were researched now by the OP this may present a problem regarding notice of claim. (It would perhaps be expecially a shame if his/her DIY efforts took place whilst potential access to insurred legal advice was obtainable but might now have been prejudiced due to lack of timely notice of claim).

On the subject of time limits-any claim for damage presented under the Montreal Convention-such as Art 19 dealing with delay would be subject to a 2 year time period and not 6 years.

I was also curious as the the precise qualification necessary to become a "travel lawyer"-other than perhaps experience in the area of practice

There are post graduate studies and qualifications obtainable in air and space law -which is often treated as a separate and more distinct area of legal practise than perhaps more nebulous "travel law". It appears that some of this more specialised body of law might have more particular application.

^^ What on earth?

I'm sure we all knew that........didn't we????

I think a reference to Ros Fernihough would have been more precise and to the point....she probably has all the qualifications and atributes Ula deems essential.....

For those who got lost or still scratching their heads ...heres a loose translation in nearly simple English

This is an interesting case with a novel slant to it...and a phone call to Ros Fernihough is advisable....it is questionable wether the EU firm OP has been dealing with is competent to advise about the claim...or accept full responsibility for advice they will give.

It is advised the services of a highly qualified travel lawyer is sought , which can be costly...If legal funding is a worry then there may be help to be had via a houshold or travel insurance policy with the cost of pursueing a claim such as this.... speed is of the essence as there is usually a time limit on claiming for any help there could be , and our OP might already be out of time to claim , as 180 days is a common cut of point, if this is the case it will be a shame, and might predujudice the chance of success for our OP........under the Montreal convention a claim can be persued for up to 2 yrs ...but not 6 as OP beleives....(for interest a claim for compensation for a necgligent act can be brought for up to 5 yrs after the harm was done in civil proceedings)

Ula does not know what qualifications she/he needs to become a travel lawyer.....in my opinion a vital qualification is to be able to give advise in a simple and suitable form so that their clients can understand the advice given ....

ps.....welcome aboard Ula

The obvious (well it is to me) thing to do when a problem arises is to put into writing your complaint. This will at least establish an audit trail. There is a danger when doing DIY on a complaint if you spend time researching rules and regulations that you can fall foul of time limits that may apply. When making any claim quoting regulations you do need specialist advice. Much of what is posted on the internet is of little use in a court of law. People like to think they are experts and express opinions that are simply misleading which creates even more problems.

I have just completed a claim under the Sale of Goods act, something that I have dealt with for years in business. Having sought advice first, my approach was far simpler than I would have taken without the advice I took - from an expert.

fwh