Whilst we can express a personal opinion there is nothing we can do to assist you directly. You need specialist advice and help in resolving this problem.

Ros Fernihough is a Specialist Travel Law Solicitor who has assisted many members of HT and I would suggest you contact her.

The direct number to Ros's PA Pam is 01922 705134

Or try the switchboard number 01922 633214 and ask for Travel Dept.

Meanwhile sorry to hear of your problems and good luck for the future. Please let us know how you go on - feedback always helps someone else.

fwh

I am very sorry to hear of your fall, and your subsequent problems I'm not too sure though why this should have any bearing on whether or not a hotel is classed as a 5 star, or am I missing something here

I had a fall at my daughters wedding reception, when beer had been spilled on the dance floor and I didn't see it, until I slipped in it. I hurt myself quite badly, ruined my outfit and my daughter was very upset. At no time did I even think about the hotel being responsible! I put it down to my stupid fault for not being more careful.

when a hotel is rated "5*", expectations of standards, cleaning regimes etc follow. For myself and everybody i know, 5* suggests the hotel you are visiting is of a higher standard than that of a lesser star rating, isn't that why we pay extra? First Choice state that the hotel (being in Egypt) does not have any standards or cleaning regimes in place, whether it is 1* or 5*, therefore we cant expect to receive the sanitation, cleanliness or services we receive at home for "5*" accomodation.......... so why do they rate the hotel as being "5*" and sell it to us, the public as such!!!!!!!

That in mind, the arguement that follows is that the hotel does not clean or check any floors for spillage from breakfast to closure (approx midnight) the hotel was all inclusive, this allows children and adults to go to the bar directly. Too often the drinks would be spilt on their return to their tables (the floor was camel coloured ceramic tiles, making it impossible to see any spillage, no matting either)........... then not cleaned or mopped. Imagine that being the case here! if for instance the spillage occured in a supermarket, i believe they only have a 20 minute window to clean it up due to STANDARDS.

Couple of years ago I was invited to go round a 5star hotel with a view to booking a holiday there. Brand new! I was not very popular for spending my time pointing out bad/unfinished work and various other problems. Certainly I told them I would not stay there. The star rating of any hotel, particularly in mass foreign holiday destinations is subjective. I have stayed in the full range both here and abroad. 1 and 2 star that delivered 5 star experience from entering the door to No star even with 5 on the door.
Fluids and food do get spilt and are a hazard wherever you are. You cannot compare any regulations applicable to the UK to another country. Each has its own.
I have advised that you contact Ros but did you not have insurance? Have you tried to claim from them? You may have a claim for poor service etc from the TO but major injuries such as you claim would normally have been made against your insurance.

fwh

Just because a hotel is 5* doesn't mean it has higher cleaning standards than a lesser starred hotel. I have stayed in spotlessly clean 2* and filthy 5* hotels. Hotel 'earn' their stars because of services they provide eg 24hr reception, lifeguard at the pool. Also hotels in certain countries don't have the health and safety rules we have in the UK. You would need to sue the hotel, not the holiday company.
My son had a nasty fall at a hotel in Turkey, he claimed off his insurance and was paid out in about 2 weeks. By claiming off his insurance it also put in place a further claim if in the future should he has more problems with his knee.

Denny

Denny is correct, star ratings are awarded for amenities etc not cleanliness.

Also FWH's is right you should contact Ros asap.

I know TO's are responsible for the health and safety of their clients but whether or not this includes spillages around the bar area I'm not sure hence speak to Ros.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

From reading your post it seems to me that if you were in a 2* or 3* hotel you would have expected to slip on the liquid as they have lower stars. I'm sure all stars of hotel shouldn't leave liquid on the floor and just because yours was 5* shouldn't mean any different!
Yes i think you have a case against First Choice /The hotel but it has absolutely nothing to do with the staring system!!! I don't go on 3* holidays expecting stuff to be all over the floor!

I was under the impression that if you book a package holiday in the UK the tour operator acts as "principle" and is responsible for the health and safety of their clients at the resort hotel. This is why the reps in resort must fill in health and safety reports at the start of the season to make sure they come up to scratch, which I believe is why the Thomas Cook reps are on trial in Greece though I personally feel the average holiday rep probably isn't qualified to check gas appliances but that's a different matter.

So to sum up my rather rambling answer I do feel TUI are trying to fob you off so would give Ros or another travel lawyer a call to clarify.

Did you get anywhere with your travel insurance?

I'm sorry to hear of your injuries, They sound very painful.

I agree with all the replies you've had. Basically, accidents happen no matter what star hotel you stayed at. The spillage may only just have happened or do you have proof that the liquid had been on the floor for sometime? Did you fill out a report with the rep when you had your fall? I'm only stating my opinion here but I'd say the fault lies with the hotel (if anybody) as no way were the TO to know that something had been spilt on the floor at that particular time.

Please let us know how you get on.

I have tried to bring a case against first choice for the hotel being negligent but am informed that Egypt have no standards as we do in that what we call a 5* hotel doesnt necessarily mean that they are, therefore First Choice are not at fault...

Who told you this? Are you saying that you have already had legal advice from a solicitor who has advised you that you are unlikely to win in a court case against First Choice. If you've already had legal advice then I doubt that any of us here are in a position to know whether that was accurate advice or not - the best thing to do would be to seek a second opinion from another solicitor such as Ros. If you mean that you took at face value a denial of responsibility from FC and haven't yet consulted a solicitor, then again the best advice any of can offer is to again consult Ros.

The crux of the matter is that even if TC are regarded as potentially legally liable then you are going to have to prove that they, or the hotel as their agents, were negligent. The outcome could be very different depending on when this spill occurred as shirley h has commented. What happened with regards to your travel insurance? Have you treid claiming anything against that? Mine covers me for more than just initial treatment etc and a quick reading of my annual policy with Aviva (Norwich Union as was) suggests that in your situation I might well have been able to claim for up to £50,000 from them in the event of a permanent disability because it does include an element of personal accident insurance. They would also provide legal advice and/or pay up to £25,000 to cover the costs of legal advice in the case of a civil law suit arising from an accident that happens, though this only applies if they have been notified of the accident within 180 days of it happening. If you haven't done so already, then contacting your insurance company might open up furhter avenues for some compensation and/or support for a civil law suit against FC and/or the hotel.

SM

Get in touch with a no win no fee company!

SM - according to the OP the accident happened in July 08. Well out of the 180 day window for an insurance claim.! It may have helped the case if a complaint had been made closer to the date of the accident and not some 18months later??

Denny

Interesting thread.

I'd love to know the answers to this question posed by fwh:

but did you not have insurance? Have you tried to claim from them? You may have a claim for poor service etc from the TO but major injuries such as you claim would normally have been made against your insurance.

mmullard

I have tried to bring a case against first choice for the hotel being negligent but am informed that Egypt have no standards as we do in that what we call a 5* hotel doesnt necessarily mean that they are, therefore First Choice are not at fault...

Who informed you of this?
How far did your case against First Choice get?

With respect to the original poster there is a lack of information for us to express an opinion. That is the reason I suggested contacting Ros - particularly in view of the long term effects.

It is possible that the insurance company (if there is one) would look at a claim if the original accident treatment was paid for by them.

Lots of questions with no answers on this one.

fwh

SM - according to the OP the accident happened in July 08. Well out of the 180 day window for an insurance claim.!

I know! Which is why I drew attention to it! But given the extent of the injuries at the time, if the OP did have travel insurance, it would be very surprising that their insurer didn't know about this accident almost immediately after it happened. Unless of course mmullard didn't make a claim for their hospital and treatment expenses in Egypt? My reading of the Aviva cover for legal expenses is that as long as the incident the claim for legal cover relates to (ie mmullard's accident) was reported within 180 days of it happening, then one is covered. There appears to be no time limit on making the claim for the legal cover itself as long as it relates to an accident/incident that was reported to them within 180 days of it happening.

And as their compensation for disability is based on the claimants condition 104 weeks after the original accident, then the OP is still well within the time span for making a claim for that if their insurance company included similar cover. As they have apparently been told that they will not be fit for work again until close on 2 1/2 years after the original accident then they would be able to claim for compensation for the disability after July this year. This in itself would, I assume, be an incentive for the insurance company to take up the case because of the possiblity that if successful, they could then recover this £50,000 from a negligent TO.

Taken together this is why, as fwh states, so much depends on knowing whether the OP had insurance cover or not, and what that cover was for.

SM

I have tried to bring a case against first choice for the hotel being negligent but am informed that Egypt have no standards as we do in that what we call a 5* hotel doesnt necessarily mean that they are, therefore First Choice are not at fault... i am furious that First choice were able to sell a holiday that has damaged me for life and yet not be held responsible. Surely there must be something in law to protect the public from this pass the book mentality and to stop so called reputable holiday companies from selling or using false advertising their 5* rated holidays to the public and surely they have a duty to their customers to inform them of the same....... please help.

I don't know where all the talk of 5* hotels comes into this, when according to their brochure FC don't give star ratings. Two contenders for the hotel concerned are the Coral Sea Imperial and Coral Sea Resort, which have "four sun plus" ratings.

The brochure clearly explains that accommodation brochure ratings are based on their annual appraisals & customers' views taken from the end-of-holiday Customer Satisfaction Questionnaires. Hotels & apartments are rated from ‘2' for no-frills, good value accommodation to ‘5' for more comfort & a wider range of facilities.There may be some differences between accommodation that shares the same rating.

Whilst I am a great believer in holding travel companies to account, I fail to see how they can be responsible for a spillage on the floor which can happen anywhere and is not of necessity to fault of the hotel. It's something for an insurance claim perhaps, not against FC to my mind.

Peter

just remember time limits for personal injury claims.

Best thing is to get in touch with a no win no fee personal injury specialist lawyer asap!

Doesn't any business , hotel/shop/restaurant etc have public liability insurance? i would have thought even a hotel in egypt must have insurance cover to cover fire, structural damage , loss of trade etc and so in its policy it would have public liability aswell , if you felt that a claim should be made against them you would speak to your insurers who would contact their insurers and they would decide the outcome. even if it is an accident and they have tried their level best to avoid an accident happening , it has still occured on their property, or perhaps the public liability is the responsibility of the TO ? in that case your insurer would direct the claim against them?

Doesn't any business , hotel/shop/restaurant etc have public liability insurance? i would have thought even a hotel in egypt must have insurance cover to cover fire, structural damage , loss of trade etc and so in its policy it would have public liability aswell , if you felt that a claim should be made against them you would speak to your insurers who would contact their insurers and they would decide the outcome. even if it is an accident and they have tried their level best to avoid an accident happening , it has still occured on their property, or perhaps the public liability is the responsibility of the TO ? in that case your insurer would direct the claim against them?

We are talking Egypt, the norms that apply in the UK might not apply there. As already suggested, I recommend getting advice from Ros.

Peter