I too disagree with what Twm says.

Spaldy clearly came across as very bitter and resentful that the place he'd chosen to spend 6 months of the year was changing for, in his own opinion, the worse.
Unfortunately, he seemed unable to see or accept any other point of view than his own and most of his posts were designed to put newbies off.

Other long-stay HT members such as Chilly & Split CAN see both sides of the coin.
Chilly says it all here:

and I love it whatever!! warts and all!!

It is know good having two weekers holiday glasses on.

It's not a case of 'having rose-tinted spectacles' on.
Most issues faced by long-stayers simply don't impact on tweekers.
I've read of problems queuing in banks to pay utility bills, issues with gardners and distaste at alleged corrupt government officials.
These (plus many other possible sources of irritation, I'm sure) are very real to long-stayers - but not to tweekers.

I appreciate that if you're buying rice or other food staples you may see a marked increase in price over a 6 month period.
However, for the tweekers (assuming that they've been to Goa before) it's probably just a £1 or so increase onto their daily budget from the previous year.
When you consider that in Goa we spend in 3 weeks (on food & drink) less than half of what we spend in 2 weeks in Greece or Turkey, the fact that the cost of, say, fish tikka has gone up 5 rupees from the previous year is (as both Roxey and nejulie agree) not worth getting hot under the collar about.

That's not having rose-tinted spectacles on - it's just having a different viewpoint.

I'm sure the mods will agree that there's room on here for the views of long-stayers and tweekers, whether they be total newbies or people (like us), who've visited Goa many times over a long period of time - as long as all views are expressed with respect and consideration for members who don't share the same opinion as you.

Re the jeweller:
you say your friends were being 'fleeced'.
Could it simply be that you, as long-standing customers, would have been given a cheaper price than a new customer and once your jeweller realised that he was doing business with your friends the price was reduced?

The Goa forum is so different from many others we have, as there are so many longstayers. That is why the good, bad and ugly of Goa is very clear to anyone reading the forum. We do welcome longstayers as long as the forum does not move away from what it is- a holiday forum. I have visited many places I have loved as a holiday destination but would never dream of staying there. Thailand and Bali being two. Both, like India, have their own issues for anyone staying. I do have a past favourite which is "all over" for me, but would never dream of going to the forum and going on and on about why I don't like it anymore. The worlds a big place- if you don't like a destination, why go back? By all means give a viewpoint-but don't take over every thread with it.
Back to question- if you have to ask that after a very recent visit then I think you have your answer- even if you just haven't just realised it yet.

Can I ask please that we don't name and discuss particular individuals who are no longer members.

Well heres my view.

I decided against doing a trip report as we did nothing different from other years.We just lazed on the beach reading and chilling.

We love Goa and our first visit was in 1994 I think.

There have been massive changes since then but the sad truth is the infrastructure is not fit for purpose.

On day two of our holiday I fell into one of the many freshly dug ditches alongside the road in the dark and unlit pavement.In England of course this would have meant a hefty claim in Goa it just meant two very painful weeks hobbling about taking pain killers.

The rubbish situation is now completely out of hand.The place is just filthy.Rubbish is dumped everywhere and one of the saddest things I saw as I rode along on my scooter was an Indian lad in front of me one hand on the throttle mobile phone glued to his ear casually reach down and throw a bag of rubbish to his side.

Riding a scooter or indeed even being a pedestrian is now highly dangerous.No pavements and these ditches everywhere mean you literally take your lives in your hand every time you venture out.

Even the beaches are filthy and there is an air of decay everywhere.I am not sure the large influx of Indian tourists has helped as they seem incapable of finding a bin not of course that there are many bins to be found.I know it is a cultural thing but I also find their habit of spitting disgusting.

I had lots of conversations with the local shack and restaurant owners and they all share the frustrations at the current situation.

They are really worried that people will be scared away by the uncertainty over the visas and there seems to be a universal dislike of the current tourism minister who they view as an uneducated buffoon who is lining his pockets as fast as he can before he is removed from office.Not my words by the way but an opinion voiced by many business owners.

A lot more power cuts this season apparently a new chap is in charge of the power and has no knowledge of what is required to keep the lights on.

I could not help but think of the tourist ministers comments about attracting a better class of visitor as we walked along the road watching the wandering cows rip into black bags of rotting rubbish that had been dumped along the roadside.

The River Princess sits rotting and the only company so far to tender for its removal is the same one that messed up the last two attempts.There are now European companies doing feasability studies apparently.

The endemic corruption seems to be sucking the life out of Goa.It seems that before anything gets done so many palms have to be greased there ends up being nothing left to do the job budgeted for.

I found myself filled with tremendous admiration for the people who despite all these problems still remain welcoming and unfailingly hospitable.

Goa remains a place I love to visit but it breaks my heart to see what is happening.

So,is it all over?

No it is not but it faces huge challenges if it is to hope to keep us all coming.The world is a big place and I ran into lots of people who will be going further East next year.

I hope this has not appeared too negative as we still had a great time but this is how I saw it.

Papa

An excellent post Papa, it puts into words just exactly how I feel about Goa as it is now. I just hope you are'nt immediatley taken to task for your remarks
As far as this subject goes, it seems to have fallen into two camps, the tweekers who holiday once a year and consequently seem quite happy to pay whats asked by taxis and the like, dont see a problem with price increases, and compare it to the Eurozone prices and regard it as "cheap as chips" The other camp is the likes of Spaldy who are totally sick of whats happening. I cant blame them, I'd feel the same if, with the assistance of crooked lawyers and estate agents, I'd bought property, sett up bank accounts etc, and now find that their investment is'nt what they thought and they may possibley loose them.
I'm in another group, l love the place, been going for years and years, and dont like whats happening. We normally make two visits yearly, also go every summer to the Far East for a couple of weeks and every two years spend six weeks in Australia. As a consequence we dont scrimp and save when in Goa, but neither do we chuck our cash around like many do if its their once a year break. Unlike some earlier posters I do take exception to a trip from the top of Beach Rd Candolim to the top of Holiday St Calangute being charged 100rps for a 30rp fare. Thats why all the taxis have cloths over the fare rate on their dashboard that tell you it's 18 rp per kl. Unfortunatley as most people pay it gladly, arguements ensue. Also I've no problem with leaving 10% tips everywhere, just because it may be a £10 tip at home, a lot of people quite happily grossly overtip in Goa.
I dont think Goa can go on like this, next season their will be fewer charter flights, I've no doub when we arrive in Nov. their will be shack hold ups. Although Goa is still a cheapish destination, it's certainly not a cheap place to get to. From my home in central Scotland I can get to the Far East more cheaply than Goa Where it will all end for Goa,? who knows but unless they get to grips with their many problems the future is far from rosy.
Alan

Gramps,

It really is difficult to decide what to post without appearing too negative.I posted a while back my thoughts on the outrageous taxi fares and was shot down by the argument that it is still much cheaper than here.

The point I made about what you would do in the U.K.if the taxis covered up their meters was completely missed.

I love Goa and will more than likely go back but I think it is because we love it that we feel so strongly about what is happening.

I too was there in November and felt desperately sorry for the shack owners as they sat around watching the season disappear while the usual licence farce unfolded.

It always seems as if it is the people at the bottom of the heap who suffer and yes I know a lot of the shack owners are not at all badly off.

Certain thing have improved since we started going for example the airport is nowhere near as bad as it used to be and the choice of restaurants is fantastic now.

Sadly though all the tourist money has not translated into decent roads,pavements,a proper power supply or refuse collection service.

Of everything I saw the thing that most depressed me most was the rubbish everywhere.How can Goa hope to attract a more affluent visitor when frankly the place has become a s*** hole.

You can see signs of improvement such as nice new hotels sprouting up between Calangute and Candolim but these will be private ventures.

What is needed is the leadership of the local Government to spend the money to improve the basic infrastructure.Of course the corruption is so deeply embedded that that money goes elsewhere.

The other major frustration for me is that I and many others who have been going for years tend to see all this and we just put up with it because we love the place.What about new visitors the ones the tourism minister so desperately wants to attract?

I imagine quite a few of them take one look at the filth the standard of the Hotels and experience the wonder of frequent power cuts and taking their lives into their hands on the local roads and decide on somewhere else next year.

That is the fate that awaits Goa if they continue to provide their customers with such an experience.

I expect to be shot at for my comments but they are made after a good few days reflecting on this years trip.

Papa

Papa and Gramps, two excellent posts

Unfortunately, change is inevitable & as we all know it is not always for the better.

I agree with much of what Papa said, poor singers & Karaoke in a bar is enough for me to decide to avoid a bar &/or restaurant. However, if there is a market for such 'entertainment' I dont blame the locals for providing it & trying to earn a living from it, I will just choose a different bar.

It's sad but I think some tourists in Goa hardly see or notice the corruption, rubbish & damage to the local environment because they are only interested in the cheap beer & sun, even if they did notice would they care?

In a way I feel that Goa is at war with itself, it obviously wants more tourists & tourists to spend more, unfortunately they are unable to put the blocks in place for this to happen. Even if tourism went through the roof, the situation would end up 10 times worse as they are clearly unable to deal with the number of tourists that currently visit. There would be more rubbish, the roads would be grid-locked & be in an even worse state of repair.

At the end of the day, it's a personal choice & a decision only you can make when to call it a day & look for somewhere else. Goa isnt 'mine' or 'yours' & the things I dont like are clearly to the tastes of others, so ultimately, who I am to decide what others should or shouldn't do on their holiday, assuming it doesnt ruin mine & I guess that would be the pont I would decide to move on.

I love Goa and will more than likely go back but I think it is because we love it that we feel so strongly about what is happening.

I too was there in November and felt desperately sorry for the shack owners as they sat around watching the season disappear while the usual licence farce unfolded.

It always seems as if it is the people at the bottom of the heap who suffer and yes I know a lot of the shack owners are not at all badly off.

Certain thing have improved since we started going for example the airport is nowhere near as bad as it used to be and the choice of restaurants is fantastic now.

Sadly though all the tourist money has not translated into decent roads,pavements,a proper power supply or refuse collection service.

Of everything I saw the thing that most depressed me most was the rubbish everywhere.How can Goa hope to attract a more affluent visitor when frankly the place has become a s*** hole.

You can see signs of improvement such as nice new hotels sprouting up between Calangute and Candolim but these will be private ventures.

What is needed is the leadership of the local Government to spend the money to improve the basic infrastructure.Of course the corruption is so deeply embedded that that money goes elsewhere.

The other major frustration for me is that I and many others who have been going for years tend to see all this and we just put up with it because we love the place.What about new visitors the ones the tourism minister so desperately wants to attract?

I imagine quite a few of them take one look at the filth the standard of the Hotels and experience the wonder of frequent power cuts and taking their lives into their hands on the local roads and decide on somewhere else next year.

That is the fate that awaits Goa if they continue to provide their customers with such an experience.

I expect to be shot at for my comments but they are made after a good few days reflecting on this years trip.

Papa

Papa, this post just about sums up my feelings and the reason for my initial post.

Excellent post Papa, I certainly do agree regarding the rubbish, River Princess etc. I wish the tourism ministry or whoever is responsible would get their act together. I also don't understand when they have at least 6 months to issue the shack licences, things are sorted out later and later each year. The season starts beginning of November yet last year I think it was the second week in December that licences were issued.
I can't do anything to change the way things are, I am not prepared to vote with my feet,but I look forward to my 3 weeks there. I am not interested in cheap beer, kareoke bars etc, I have moved from staying in central Candolim, its not for me anymore, I now stay in a quiet little guest house in Sinquerim, there are some lovely restaurants surrounding it and a little shop with all the supplies I need.
Everyone is friendly, I feel comfortable and immediately at home, surrounded by friendly welcoming people who are genuinely happy to see me again.
Perhaps I am wrong to 'overpay' the taxi drivers, but it is between me and them, if I am happy and they are happy it isnt anyone elses business.
I love Goa because of the people there, friendships we have built up over years, I will carry on going there because it is to me a second home, I can relax and forget about life at home for a few weeks and be truly happy.
I agree about the ditches though - blooming nightmare!!!!!

Hi all,

I quite agree that this is a holiday forum, but surely people who come out for the winter are on holidays - there will be new people looking for the winter sun, and they have a right to know what are the good points and the bad about Goa. We love it, will have been here for neigh on 6 months when we leave in April, and at the moment have put nearly £7,000 into the North's economy. It is different for tweekers with their two weeks cash, but if you have to eek it out for six months all the 100 rups here and there certainly mount up, and with the rate falling from 78 to 67 that is a big difference of a large amount of money.

Our shack the prices are just up a few rupees so what. It is the other things tweekers have to watch out for.

As somebody said Ashwen prices had really shot up we were astonished when we went this week.

Most of the long term renters are not renewing their long term rentals for next season which will be a shame as old friends will disappear. Yes, new people will come to Goa, but with the bad press visa situation etc. there will be fewer, and remember the Scarlett case will be all over the
UK papers for the forseeable future.

Twm
People who spend 6 months in Goa may certainly be on holiday but for some (not all) of the long-stayers their spending patterns are different to those of tweekers.
As you yourself have admitted:

but if you have to eek it out for six months all the 100 rups here and there certainly mount up,

And that means that some long-stayers may have a different perspective on a place than the tweekers, such as Roxey and myself, who spend freely over the shorter period of our time in Goa.
As Roxey says, whether she decides to 'overpay' taxi drivers for her convenience, is her business.

Our shack the prices are just up a few rupees so what. It is the other things tweekers have to watch out for.

I'm curious - what 'other things'?

I do agree with you about

there will be new people looking for the winter sun, and they have a right to know what are the good points and the bad about Goa

but it's possible to state (and debate) the good and bad points of any destination without being, as some people were (and I'm not including you in this) constantly and belligerently anti-Goa - simply because it didn't suit THEM anymore.

I've said on here many times (even earlier in this thread) that whenever anyone asks me if I would recommend Goa, I say 'no'.
After the shocked look, I explain that we love it, but it may not suit them.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, I think it's how you state that opinion that is the difference between acceptable behaviour on here or not.

As I pointed out in my post it's not just a case of Tweekers or long stayers, a large number of visiters to Goa are like us who visit twice a year,among other breaks elsewhere as well, and whilst not on a tight budget, dont go overboard either. Whilst anyone is entitled to spend their money whilst on holiday as they see fit, my attemps not to be fleeced by greedy taxi drivers will have no adverse effect on other tourists, the ones who happily pay way over the odds however, lead the likes of taxidrivers, to ask widely inflated prices of all tourists, as they assume we will chearfully give them whatever they think they can get away with.
Alan

Alan
it sounds like you have a similar 'holiday profile' to us.
I'm not sure about 'not going overboard', but we do eat and drink what we like where we like - and that goes for anywhere we go in the world.
If we fancy Tiger prawns, then we have them.
I personally couldn't holiday for any length of time in any place where I had to watch the pennies. Maybe we're just lucky.

I wouldn't pay inflated prices for taxis either, but as you say, it's entirely up to the individual whether they pay what taxi drivers are asking - either because they think it's worth it to them (as Roxey says) or because they don't know any better because they've not asked for advice on here or other holiday websites.

We rarely use taxis in Goa anyway, unless it's for a rare day out to another beach or back to the airport.
We were waiting for the bus to Calangute from Sinquerim and a taxi driver was trying to convince us to go with him.
I showed him a 20 rupee note and said 'bus fare', pointed to him and said 'too expensive' and shrugged my shoulders.

No brainer, really.

Gramps, what is the going rate for a taxi ride then, 50rps each way from Kingfisher villa to the beach - main beach road or to Newtons seems quite reasonable to me. There was one last holiday who tried to charge me 200 for the return trip, I just laughed and gave him 100 - he laughed too!!! I know there are some greedy taxi drivers, there are also some very pleasant drivers who will go out of their way to help you, I have come across both I don't hold myself responsible for how much taxi drivers charge, its up to the individual holidaymaker whether they are prepared to pay the quoted rate or not.

No, definitely not! More Indian tourists than ever are visiting Goa, and buying property, this is probably as it should be. There are also more Russians and other nationalities, but fewer British. I do not think that Goa offers a good, value for money holiday for the British holiday maker going for 2 weeks. Air fares have risen, so has the price of accommodation. Getting a visa is a hassle, but the recent changes do not affect the average holiday maker. Five years ago you could book return air fare and 2 weeks in a (rather grotty) hotel, for under £140. Now even last minute bookings seem expensive. However, I would not want to deter anyone from visiting Goa, as someone said earlier, the ideal way to see it would be as part of a tour of India, including Hampi, the Taj Mahal and so many other wonderful places. It's still hot and it's still cheap. Also it still feels a safe place. But the sad fact is that Goa is deteriorating, in many ways which have been fully described elsewhere. A few weeks ago there was certainly a lot of negativity out there, not just from long-term resdients and shack owners, but also from ordinary holiday makers.

Over the years places change and people's expectations and needs from a holiday also change. The cultures and values in India are very different from those in Europe. You realise just how different when you stay there for any length of time. What seems a quaint local custom at first becomes really irritating over time. This site is called Holiday Truths and both negative and positive views should be included to enable people to make up thir own minds.

This site is called Holiday Truths and both negative and positive views should be included to enable people to make up thir own minds.

and at Holiday Truths that is what you get.

My first holiday to Goa was 1993 (possibly 4) having a senior moment here . The cost was £275 for 2 weeks staying at the Pretty Petals Guest House. I was pleasantly suprised at the cost then, truly thought it would cost far more, so for me prices havent changed dramatically over the years taking into account the ever rising cost of fuel etc. Last year you could get a flight with Qatar for around £350, accommodation if you shop around is available for £5 per night or even less. I stay in a really nice guest house at a cost of £10 per night - this is for two people. I believe I am getting value for money. I may be being thick but I just don't understand how a travel company would survive on charging only £140 for a two week holiday on the other side of the world.
The people who work in Goa from the beach sellers, hotel owners, taxi drivers are there to make a living, the season is short, they are no worse than ice cream vendors, coffee shops, taxi drivers anywhere else in the world. I spent more on a weekend in Rome than I spent on my entire holiday in Goa, I was even charged £5 for a cup of coffee , now that is taking the michael.
I think my rose tinted specs must be a permanent feature

hi
on the subject of roads and no work being done i dont know when these posters were last in goa but this year there has been a huge amount of work done on the roads here and in fact is still going on now, the road from calangute to mapusa being widened likewise the road to baga bridge,also the calangute to candolim road at the moment is being worked on and footpaths being laid,many of the beach roads have been resufaced and all in all across goa roadworks are going on

We returned from Goa at the weekend from our 11th trip. On the trip form the airport to the hotel, I stuck my camera out of the taxi windows and took some radom shots. Now, sitting looking at them on the PC, I'm surprised at how grotty some of it looks. It's almost looking at it with fresh eyes, rather than the excitement of being back in Goa. I can only think that some people must leave the airport and wonder what the hell they have done. There was an article in the paper when we were there that they had issued a contract for plastic collection, so hopefully that will improve.

Once at the hotel and the beach, things improve dramatically, and the beach (Mobor) is clean, a few bits of washed up stuff, but nothing much, and the beach shacks keep their areas clean.

Once again, all the hotel and beach shack staff made us feel very welcome and seemed to genuinely value our custom. They took the time to chat with us. They obviously weren't happy at the beach shack debacle, but feel that next year it will be run more smoothly. Also, they felt that most of the Russians had moved on, and they had been told that Russians tend to visit a country for about 5 years and then move on to a new venue. There were definitely a lot less around than our last few visits.

I can fully see that during our few short weeks there, we do have different needs from long stayers. I wouldn't know how much a bag of rice has gone up, as I have no need to buy one.

I think the biggest problem is that there are now less flights than there were, although hopefully next season, Thomson seem to be running two flights from Gatwick, and if Thomas Cook keep their flights running, there may be more opportunity for UK tourists to visit.

It's not over for me yet.