Hi,

Difficult time for sure for all concerned, you and the tour operator. Difficult for us to comment here, as we do not know all the relevant details. If you really feel aggrieved and are sure Thomas Cook did not meet their duties, you will have to sue them.

CSM

lets take this apart to narrow down the complaint.

I'd guess they didn't fill the flight to Munich because they already knew what capacity they could get from Munich to London and didn't want the other people stranded there. But since you weren't one of those not taken it isn't part of your compliant so don't confuse things, you need to keep it very clear with no room for argument or changing the subject.

Corruption amongst the airport staff is a bit borderline, TC would be have some responsiblity for checkin staff but the security staff are outside their control. This certainly needs flagging up as an issue on the Egypt board but since you didn't pay you haven't anything to claim back.

The long delay because of the ash seems to have been covered - they did provide the accomodation and they did get you home.

Where this seems to go badly wrong is the organisation- the lack of notice of the airport transfer, the lack of the meal packs to keep you going, the poor coordination with the reps at Hurghada and the lack of information about what would happen in Munich. The whole thing sounds like a shambles but if causing a shambles was against the law most UK companies would be out of business at some point. To sue them you need to come up with a value for all the distress and that's difficult, it's much easier if you were complaining about paying for something that simply wasn't delivered and could quote a price. The distress was made worse because you were already badly delayed by the ash but you can't really count that because it wasn't their fault and they did meet their legal requirments - in fact they may use the ash excuse as a defence as to why they were so badly organised.

TC and the other big operators mess thousands of people about every year and have an army of solictors to defend themselves. My bottom line is to put this down to experience. Don't use TC again and stay away from Egypt but do you really need to put yourself through the hassle of going to court?

Isabella , Sorry to hear about your terrible experience and from what I have been told you were not the only one to experience these difficulties. I say told because I was updated on my return from holiday( about all the stranded people and how they were being treated etc............) as i too had been delayed for 6 days with my family.However our experience was the extreme opposite of yours we were kept fully informed told to continue our holiday and enjoy the extra time (we were A/I but all those on B&B were upgraded to a/i)given free meals on the return flight and guess who we travelled with yip THOMAS COOK.So again I know this is no consolation to you but we had nothing but praise for Thomas Cook.

We too were AI for two weeks on a cruise and then in Sharm el Sheik. We were also TC Signature which meant paying extra for a supposed superior service. It's not the delay that angers us but the treatment. We have written three times to the chairman, CEO and complaints department using recorded delivery mail and so far received two totally unsatisfactory replies, neither of which addresed the specific problems detailed in a 5 page A4 letter - that's how much space it took to detail it all. What you've seen on my first post is just the bare bones! TC also denied that we were abandoned at two airports (Cairo and Hurghada) without being met yet there were 4 of us on the first occassion and 14 on the second. It has cost us £400 in phone calls - no one answered the TC emergency line, the TC numbers in Egypt or the British Embassy in Egypt so we were kept on hold. Relations in England also met with the same problem on our behalf. Our scheduled flights with Air Egypt could have been trasferred through star alliance.....I could go on but the bottom line is that we will never travel with TC again or use Air Egypt again. It may well have been a problem with their sub contractors in Egypt, Blue Skies, some of whom seemed to take the Ash as an excuse to have a holiday- the hotel rep for example took the week off and the regional manager couldn't be contacted -, abandon us and not fulfill their contract with TC but ultimately, TC is responsible for Blue Skies, Egyptian employees and Air Egypt as that's who they booked us with. Glad you were ok and well treated- I've heard the same from others but not in Egypt or with subcontracted companies.
As regards the flights from Munich to London - they too had empty seats - our group was split between several flights that day and we are in e mail contact with our experiences.

I know if we were in your shoes we would be trying to get answers too,don't let them ignore your complains they are just trying to stonewall you in the hope of you giving up.Keep at them until you feel happy with the outcome.One thing though lets hope that the holiday industry have taken some lessons from all the upset and can deal with any future problems more efficiently than they have dealt with yours.Lessons must be learnt surely.

so far received two totally unsatisfactory replies, neither of which addresed the specific problems detailed in a 5 page A4 letter - that's how much space it took to detail it all.

I think that you need to heed Steve8482's advice and keep any letter short and focussed specifically on the things that were within Thomas Cook's control and you need to be clear about what you are asking to be compensated for. I'm assuming that the cruise itself was OK and that the 6 day delay in Cairo was handled appropriately and that things started to go wrong once the ban was lifted and you left the hotel as they tried to get you home?

I think that accusing the TC staff of lying to you is probably not going to get you nowhere - yes, it's terribly frustrating when the information that you are being given keeps turing out to be wrong but can you prove that they were lying as opposed to passing on in good faith the latest information that was being given to them in an ever changing situation? In the end, I would be very surprised if TC offered you anything other than compensation for the food and drink that should have been provided from the point when you left the hotel in Cairo and until you landed back at Heathrow. The corrupt shenanigans at the airport are not TC's fault and in the end were unpleasant but cost you nothing. I think that if you try and claim compensation for the distress the shambolic process caused you then I think that you are going to find it very difficult to both prove this and put a price on it for something that in the end was caused by an 'Act of God' which I suspect will be their get-out clause.

SM

SM

5 pages!!

Sorry, but 4 of those won't have been read.

I agree with Steve. Far, far too long. Having dealt with holiday complaints a bit in the past I know how that letter will have been skimmed over as at that length it is just too long winded to read. Make it short and concise. Anything that doesn't come under Thos Cook control leave out. Bullet point your grievances and be very clear about what you want to happen next.
I would also confine your letters to the Customer Service Dept (use the name of the last person that wrote to you). Any higher up the chain tends to get opened by a PA and put in an internal tray to the correct department.

Good luck!

Hi Isobella nice to hear from you
As 1 of the passengers stranded with you in Hurghada remember everybody has access to this site even Thomas Cook employees who would love you to drop the claim
Like the rest of the group you seemed to have been fobbed off By TC's Miss Madam

Thomas Cook signature booked all the flights through a scheduled airline service (Their choice not ours) using Egyptair
They state that had the aircraft been owned by them or EU based airline they would have applied The Passenger Rights act which entitles us to all meals, accomidation free travel to the airport plus 2 free phone calls. As They booked us on a non EU flight they applied The packaging Travel Regulations which basically is B&B up to a 3 star hotel,
TC are trying to hide behind this latter rule conveniently forgetting that they chose to use this airline
TC also state we can sue BA? no idea why
Like you at Sharm we too were promissed same board in Cairo as in Sharm All inclusive also a first in first out flight schedule
We also was forced to leave Sharm in the early hours with out breakfast or food box, arrived at Cairo put in a 5 star hotel, promissed food after we were all booked in, After being booked the rep said its to late for food but you will get a free breakfast tomorrow. Leaving us to go 30 hours without food.
5 star sounds nice until you start to pay 5 star prices for food and drink (2 cups of coffee £9.00 a glass of Brandy anyone £13.00p) especially at the end of your holiday. when your funds are low.
Looking on Egyptair for E tickets showed us booked to fly home 4/5/10 17days after our original flight date,
Taken to Hurghada again no food to meet a special Thomas Cook plane to take us home with another group of passengers stranded at Hurghada, Left for hours on end at the airport till finally convincing a TC rep to assist us, He knows nothing of a special plane and there are no passengers of TC waiting with us. This was just a sham to get us out of Cairo. There was no plane Eventually a coach turns up to take us to a hotel to "freshen up" we all refused the rest is covered by Isobellas post
Had we gone to the hotel we would have been dumped there till 4/5/10
TC state that we were not being abandoned in Hurghada they had flights for us (probably 4/5/10)
Only after complaining of being lied to again and refusing to leave the airport got us flights on Condor to Munich even then TC were reluctant to give us follow on E tickets from Munich to Heathrow only our refusal to leave the airport till we had tickets all the way home produced these tickets to Heathrow

4 letters sent to TC with details about things that were within TC remit and replies to all of them that completely ignored the detailed points. TC have stated that we will not get money for food, phone calls or anything at all. I'm aware that TC employees visit these sites and try to steer people like me away from further action using all sorts of arguments. I've had some very useful addresses via private communication from people who've been on the receiving end of nasty comments in reply to their forum complaints - comments suspected of coming from TC employees. As for the lies - yes we can prove the lies as we kept a text message lying to us about a so called BMI flight that had been booked for us from Cairo that turned out to be none existant and we have the print out of the flight details (and when these werre arranged by TC) from Munich to Heathrow that also prove we had been lied to the night before. So. lies - definitely. As for the comment about the rest of the holiday - cruise great - hotel in Sharm a disgrace with many, many complaints about it on trip advisor and not worthy of TC signature - including more lies from TC about choice of hotels through signature and connections from Luxor to Sharm But that is a separate issue and pales in comparison to the Cairo experience. We have given TC lots of opportunity to compensate us for food, phone calls that went unanswered but cost us £400 in total, and deliberate misinformation and lies that led us to lose money booking an alternative home from Cairo that we couldn't take us b cause we were thrown out of the hotel on our supposed way home - i.e. stranded at Gurghada airport at 6a.m.! We are now in discussion with a legal firm as TC have had their chance to sort this out.

I'm aware that TC employees visit these sites and try to steer people like me away from further action using all sorts of arguments.

As a member of HT your comment suggests that members working for Thos Cook and other companies use the site as a tool to reject claims.

Your assertion is far from the truth and is insulting to all those who try to assist people when they have a problem. The answer you get will not always be the one you wish to hear. But that is life.

The comments in reply to your original post are in no way a rejection of your claim. They are however a true reflection of the way in which many companies - not only TOs - handle letters of complaint. The real grievances become lost in the verbiage. An example might be your comment;

(after a hold up because we refused to bribe the soldier on duty!)

That is nothing to do with Thos cook or any other operator. They have no control in the way that an airport operates and is totally irrelevant, simply a viewpoint you have expressed.

Short and sweet is the way in which an initial letter of complaint should be submitted. You do not need to give proof of a particular point at this stage. The information may be relevant at some point in the future but at this stage only detracts from what you are saying.

I do not work for any operator or agency. In some areas I, as well as many other members do have experience or specialised knowledge (car hire in my case having operated a major franchise) and are therefore able to answer or advise when someone has a query or problem.

Take legal advice or action if you wish, that is your prerogative. however you might save yourself time and money by reviewing your actions and correspondence to date, and starting over, taking note of what members have said. In the last two years I have complained three times to Thomsons and in each case had a speedy resolution by keeping it short and simple.

You might also consider apologising to those members you are asserting are more interested in looking after the TO rather than trying to help.

fwh

I have been contacted via private e mail by some of the members who have read my complaints and totally agree with everything I've said and do not want to post on the main site because of intimidating and bullying personal replies from .....who knows- they believe they are TC employees posing as genuine posters on the complaints sites? I do not appreciate your 'advice' and will not be intimidated into apologising for something I have no reason whatsoever to apologise about. What happened to us was a disgrace and, in addition,TC are responsible for their check in desks. Others have advised that only full and detailed complaints with all the facts, dates etc are valid when if comes to a serious claim against a company. There was nothing short, sweet and simple about the shocking treatment we received and I will continue to advertise this regardless of who tries to belittle me.

isabella south coast ... we obviously can't speak for other holiday review and discussion sites some of which, unlike Holidaytruths, may be owned by the travel industry. But we have no evidence whatsoever on this site to support the suggestion which you are making about Thomas Cook staff. If those members who contacted you privately have any such evidence or suspicions, they could just as easily contact us privately to make us aware of their concerns so that we could investigate.

As far as we are concerned, you have been given nothing but independent, impartial and unbiased advice here in this topic. However, as it is advice which you clearly do not appreciate, perhaps because it is not what you want to hear, then there is little point in fellow holidaymakers taking up any further time trying to assist you.

We wish you well in resolving your grievances with the help of your legal advisers.

David