Legally you can be fined for unauthorised absence. From what I have read some schools and local authorities are hot on it whilst others are more understanding. Before actually doing the deed I would suggest you speak with the school. Depending on age, time of year and personal circumstances it may be possible that they will agree.

fwh

Whilst I completely understand that holidays in term time cost a lot less than in the official school holidays, don't forget that your son might find it hard to reintegrate with his classmates when he returns and having missed work, might feel very 'out of touch'. This also might mean that his marks will drop ... though hopefully only temporarily.

Might it be worth asking his teacher what he will be missing and either taking some work with you for him to do during the holiday, or you working extra hard with him once he gets back to catch up on what he's missed?

we talked this one to death a few years back when the Fines were introduced [now archived ] but it has also been mention in the following topics

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=97032

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=87580

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=97929&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=0

wizard

Working at a school I cn only say what the policy is in our school. The Head will allow children to be taken on holidays during term time, as long as it's been discussed or a letter receivd before hand. I know that he would prefer it to be at the end of the school year though ( July), rather than at the beginning (now) when children are changing classes, and new things are being introduced.While not criticizing those that do holiday at this time of year, It's surprising hom much can be missed during a fortnight.

I work at the same school as Helen and although it's the county's policy not to allow children time off for holidays during term, our head is very flexible and will normally allow parents to do so.

In mrselliot's case, she is only taking her son out for a week and as he's still in primary school, I don't think she need worry about the amount of work he's missing or about not being able to reintegrate with classmates. He will have just settled into year 6 with the rest of the children he's been with throughout his school years.

As has already been mentioned, some schools do fine parents for taking their children out so I suggest a quick phonecall to explain to the head that you have booked to go and hope that this won't cause a problem.

I've done it many times in the past but unfortunately schools seem to be so hot on it now that I can't deal with the stress & worry of a confrontation.

Our primary school has been really strict on the policy for a few years now and will not authorise any absense under any circumstances but our high school up until last year have been very accomodating . We have now had letters to say no absenses will be authorized and i've yet to put it to the test .

I think there is pressure put on the schools via the local education authorities and it's them that the schools have to answer to .I'm not suggesting you do this , I couldnt personally but it seems to me they would prefer you to lie and call in sick than have to put you down for unauthorised absense .

I should imagine they arnt going to be too happy with September though but loosing his placed is rather dramatic talk, although no doubt the school may have put in writing somewhere that they reserve their right to do so . They will of put as many frighteners as possible in any policy for holidays over term time and it works . It would seem only the very brave do it nowadays

Personally I would let the school know as soon as possible and you will need to have a really really good reason for doing so ready. Saying you couldnt afford it any other time just won't do but our high school has previously allowed time off if parents cannot take holiday time from work at any other time . I think you need to read their policy first and then make your story fit.

good luck
lyn

Thanks for your input.

Well Im going to call the school this morning and see if I can pop in this week to see the head.

A couple of people did actually say to me just sign him off sick - but thats not an option for me - going to Egypt no doubt he will return to school well tanned so the "lie" would be quite obvious.

No, I'll just be honest and see what she says. I know her well enough as my older 2 children also attended this school and if she checks my childrens records its not a yearly habit by any means.

I dont fancy a confrontation at all but we'll see how it goes. Yes it is one week and he has been with his current class for the last 5 years so the settling in period doesnt apply. Of course I will get him to catch up on any homework he misses. Wish me luck!

Well on my head be it, but I'd like to play devil's advocate: -

A couple of people did actually say to me just sign him off sick

and you rightly say that it will be all too clear to see that he's been away because of his sun tan .... AND as you say in the next line of your post

I'll just be honest

which is great. Children often learn things from their parents that most parents would rather they didn't!

No, I'll just be honest and see what she says. I know her well enough as my older 2 children also attended this school and if she checks my children's records its not a yearly habit by any means.

A very fair point.

Yes it is one week and he has been with his current class for the last 5 years so the settling in period doesn't apply.

Whilst a settling in period is perhaps not as important as in the first year of school, I feel that it should still be said that settling in is important especially if there has been a change of form teacher or if the classes have been 'shaken up' during the holidays. All I hope is that your lad settles quickly and well on his return, because it's his wellbeing and confidence that's important here. As for wishing you 'luck'. Nah! Not luck, but compassion and commonsense on the part of your head teacher!!

I hope that you all have a wonderful holiday.

You don't say why you need to take him out of school.

English law (don't know about the rest of UK, sorry) gives the local education authority the right to set their own local policies and issue fixed penalty notices to parents who breach it. Don't ask me what will happen if schools are allowed to break away from the LEA!

But there is a national law you've all heard of and which certain newpapers would like to abolish. That's the Human Rights Act and it gives you the right to family life. I would argue that going on holiday with your children is part of family life and if you have a valid need to do that in term time then local policy can't overule the national law. With me so far?

So what would a valid need be? In some cases visiting a significant event which has a fixed date might count but the excuse about getting time off work is often the one that crops up. If one of the parents has allocated holiday dates due to being an essential worker in a job that can't be allowed to shut down then I would say that counts as a need to go on those dates. There is another national law that comes in useful here, the Civil Contingencies Act lists what are known as Class 1 and Class 2 Responders which basically gives us a list of employment areas that are legally recognised as essential. So if one parent can show that the holiday date is fixed due to the essential work as per this list and invokes the Human Rights Act then the LEA could be challenged. This is only my theory but I'd say it's worth a try, let the jobsworth at the LEA argue that he can overule two national laws! But get your reasons in first, you have no right to appeal to the LEA against one of these fixed penalties if it has been issued correctly on the basis of the facts as known when it was issued and you could end up having to go to court to clear it. There was a case where a mother was given a fixed penalty after the father took the child on holiday because her name was on teh school records and she hadn't informed the school that they had seperated and the father had legal custody.

If you aren't in an essential job but your employer refuses to allow all the parents off at the same time you'd have to try using the HRA against the employer. Those of us from the North will remember Wakes weeks, something which much of Europe still does, so closing a non essential business down for two weeks isn't really setting a precedent.

But remember, the differing cost of the holiday on different dates will never count as a valid need.

And I'm not going to give the CCA job list, you ought to know if you are on it !

I have always contributed to these threads and you can look them up. However they cannot take your child off the register just because you have taken them out for a week!

At my previous school we had a large ethnic population. Kids were always being taken out of school to go 'home' to visit family. Usually for whole terms and once for a whole year! The Head always wrote to the parents to say that he was not obliged to hold a school place if an absence was longer then 6 weeks. However he normally kept the place open unless the child was an absolute monster in which case he was able to get rid without any hassle!

I work in a High School and the rule is that if your childs attendance is 95% and above it is authorised - however this cannot be done when exams are being taken externally. Parents who book holidays, apply for permission only for it to be declined take them anyway and then it becomes unauthorised.
Before I worked in school and when my boys were at Primary we took them out usually in June as my husbands employer used a length of service for holiday entitlement and my husband nevr got to be off when it was school holidays.
Regarding whether your child will 'suffer' you know your child best.
It will be interesting to see which authority makes the first move and starts 'fining' parents.
Irene

We are having a similar dilemma at the moment with regard to holidays next year. For the last few years, we have holidayed in September but once daughter started school, we changed them to June. The reason for holidaying in September was my birthday, hubby's birthday and our wedding anniversary all within the same 2 week period. The Head at my daughter's school has been very understanding and holiday was always authorised until 2010 when the council changed the policy. This year's holiday was marked as "unauthorised leave". As long as sufficient notice is given, the holiday, although unauthorised, can be taken. The Head has a very different view to the council's however and "unofficially" thinks that family holidays are an important part of family life and learning can and should be experienced in many different ways (he has said he would never admit that though).

Next year, hubby celebrates his 40th birthday and we celebrate our 10th wedding anniversary in September. We would love to be able to go in the September period but my daughter starts junior school. My dilemma is do we go during June when we know holidays are "semi acceptable" or do we risk the September? Reading some of the replies above, I think I know my answer (and indeed already did) but it would be so nice to be able to take the September holiday when there are lots of celebrations and not have to worry about anything.

Good luck mrselliot, let us know how you get on and above all, enjoy your holiday.

What you need to remember is that you know your child best!! At 11 and for a week, it is not going to be a huge loss in educational developement! Be up front,hand in your letter to the school and providing in the majority he has regular school attendance then there is no way that you will be fined! He will return to school, full of new stories to tell his new friends of a great family holiday. Children of this age bounce back and forget quickly so being late to a new class will not effect them. Happy Holidays!
Amanda.

hi all......I have taken my children away either september or first 2 weeks october.....not just because its cheaper but the fact that the school holiday weeks abroad are too hot for me... I get really sick in the heat....and have only recently gone abroad in july and august as they are basically grown up and I can chill out....no way would I have coped running round after kids in the july august heat...I have had no problems with the schools...I have always informed them

When the petrol strike was on I was entitled to petrol....so must be on the esssential list thats been mentioned

I think on the human rights issues there is the argument that if a child could not go on a holiday in the designated summer holiday weeks due to fact the industry boost prices ridiculously high at these times...and the parent could only afford to take them in june ,sept or oct when holidays only half that price.......and the school refused to allow it time off so as to have that holiday.....the poorer child would be put at a disadvantage.......children from better off families would be able to have a holiday every year......and the child from a less well off family would never get one...

I have always been active in educating my children they could all read before they went to school....and maths was a game we played....science and nature study was something we did for fun...so they were not at risk of falling behind......thier education didnt stop just because they were on holiday infact it was enhanced.....they learn about different currencies....before the euro we used to go through france to holiday in spain....and they were taught to calculate how much things were in sterling...in resort they were given a set amount of pocket money each to buy things for themselves and presents.....they learnt there were different languages and bits of them....they learnt about different cultures different foods.....we coached through france and spain so they learnt some geography ect first hand not from a book by watching the landscape change...they saw for themselves.....they learnt about different types of travel as we used coaches ferries and euro tunnel ....and traveling the way we did they got a real sense of distance...how far other countries were away from home...they learnt what miles and kilometres really were.....a few times we fly ...yet more to learn about....including what 20kgs 10kgs and 5kgs looked and felt like....having to take the right amount out of case or what was left to bring things home.....they learnt about health issues like why you really use sun cream and why the green strips of it go on your nose an cheeks and the white stuff all over....why you dont stroke cats and dogs abroad ...why you cant drink the water...ect...why the african ect treet sellers are there and where they come from...what country they would come to if they kept peddling the pedalo and how far and how long it would take..... and why it wasnt possible and why they shouldnt try it ......there is so much if you think about it that a child learns by going on a holiday ...in 2 weeks they can learn more than they would in a whole year in school....if you are willing to help them...

So why should less well off children be penalised because they cant have 2 weeks of school.....and that brings us to another point....a head teacher will base her decision on how detromental to the child 2 weeks off would be.....if a child was contantly or habitually having time off at other times then 2 further weeks off would make a bad situation worse and so they could not justify it.....my children very rearley had time off....when they were sick they actually argued to go to school (but it was a good school and they loved going )....so head teacher could clearly see some benefit and no bad records ....I also made a point of asking exactly what they would be missing ...and would teach them them things myself before they went and would get them to do some written work for it and they would take it into school to show the teacher before hand...

There are exceptions though when a child reaches the last few years in secondry school....because of exams ect.......because of this last year we went for a week from the 6th july end of term weeks ...and a week from the 12th august before the new term began....we were lucky as both hols were for family celebrations and they just fell right.......this year we had 2weeks from the 19th july got a great price AI by booking early the previos october.......but am taking him away with his friend for 3nights for his 16th in october ....so he will need 4 days off school.....but he knows he has to ask what he will miss and sort out how to get it done....and I will help him ....

When children go secondary school its different from primary...there is peer presure to play truent....and its hard work and lots of it....so pulling a sickie ect can seem good idea....my lot have known there are conditions to me and school allowing them to take time off for me to take them on holiday...no unescassary time off, no truency, and no pulling sickies if they are able to go into school .....and so 2 weeks holiday time off has a good influence on the rest of the year....

My point is if you play your cards right you have less problems getting the school to agree to time off.....and you will feel less guilty about it too.....tweetie

When the petrol strike was on I was entitled to petrol

and me! Was given a form to show the police if they had to take over petrol stations - 10 years ago this month! So that would seem to put you on the list and has got everyone else worried.....,

But to use my defence suggestion you'd still have to proof you couldn't have time off in the school hols because of the job, not liking the heat doesn't really count!

Hi, this thread does crop up quite often and is an interesting one, I always like to read other peoples experiences of how their schools look upon parents for taking their children out of school in term time for holidays.
I , for one, usually take our daughter out for a week, but it is always just before they are due to break up for a term or half term. we have to get a permission slip from the school and write down our reasons, I always state that she will be visiting historical landmarks and practising her languages, we even visited a local school in jamaica, as was our intent, so a good reason from our schools point of view. I also make sure she does a scrapbook of the holiday ( our longhaul ones) to show the rest of the class.
I think holidays are a vital part of family life and very beneficial to children and its not always possible to have a family holiday in the allocated school holidays, so, as long as the kids arent behind on school work, then i'll still do it ( whilst she's at primary school, I mean !)
have a great holiday !

It's a ridiculous idea that a child will come to harm by having a week off school, particularly primary school. Most of them are not far off government run day clubs to get women to go out to work. At primary school my kids spent more time drawing fancy borders around their "busy work" than actually learning anything.
In case you are worried that your kid will be rendered a moron by missing a week, console yourself that my old boss missed TWO YEARS of primary school because of polio and he ended up with a first at Cambridge!
Only once did I ever notify the head teacher that we were going on holiday and would miss the first week of term. He refused to give permission but we went anyway. We came back to find that he'd shut the school for the first week because the heating wasn't working properly! I never bothered asking him again, just sent in sick notes after the event.

Part of the problem is that in the school league table system there is a score for non-attendance. If a school gets marked down the head gets marked down. And if a lot of schools in an area get marked down then the LEA gets marked down. You'll notice that you have no trouble if the kids go on a week long ski trip organised by the school because in that case they aren't classed as absent - but if you take them they will be.

Its scare tactics, if your child doesn't have a record of poor attendance then what can they do. Im taking my kids out of school for 5 days in October. If they tried to fine me, I would argue, why didnt he get fined or she get fined. They cant start fining everyone can they.