so this year we decided to book again with tc

- err, why? Couldn't you believe last year's episode? Did you think if you booked this year they'd answer your question about last year?

They aren't in the slightest bit worried about you going on local radio (or even national), experience will tell them that it won't affect their bookings because no-one pays attention. After all, you booked with them and we already had pages and pages of complaints about them. The T&Cs that let them change things also have a limit on changes, after which you can ask for a full refund. If you want to make a stand check them and see whether you can say no. If you have that right and don't use it you will just be encouraging them to mess more people about.

Did you even read the T&Cs ? if you did you would have known this can happen.
We have travelled with them many times and never had a problem.
We may have been lucky but i would book and recommend them before most companys.

We may have been lucky but i would book and recommend them before most companys.

same here even though our flight time has changed by half an hour for this summer's holiday.

do you read every bit of terms and conditions? Do you thinks its fair to spend £4000 on two different holidays only to lose a day of each, then have the company you book with refuse to speak about it, only going through posting letters trying to get answers, you may well have had good service from them but i and alot of others certainly have not.

We do read the Travel T&Cs as we travel a lot.

I can only take it by your reply you didn't.
Most people cannot be bothered and when things go wrong that's when they start to argue that the company is at fault.
When right from the start its there in black and white that this can happen.

thats fair enough but 2 changes on the same holiday, adding to the day we missed the previous year, they did say that if they had changed it within 8 weeks then compensatiuon would be due, though the second time they did this was 8 weeks and 2 days, bit frustrating saving and struggling all year to treat family only to lose a day of your holiday yet again

maceymoo wrote:

do you read every bit of terms and conditions?

What is the biggest lie in the world?

"I confirm I have read and understood the terms and conditions."

guilty on not reading them though if you buy something in a shop and its not what you paid for on most occasions you wil get a refund or compensation of some sort, or even the people you bought it off will talk to you

Forget last year. That is past. Flight changes are not unusual. We get many complaints from people "we booked because of the flight times" but what many omit is they booked a year ago. Well with the best will in the world events often conspire to make changes unavoidable. I do not defend TC or any other operator but often we are asked to comment without having the full facts. High street shops are different. They operate on day to day business and by their very nature it is easy to discuss a problem face to face.
So what would you have a TO do when someone has a complaint/problem? It is totally impractical for each person with a complaint to talk to someone as you would in a shop. Yes it might not be the perfect way but dealing via post/email is the only way it can be dome. Not perfect but I see no solution to that. But then there are also benefits to that. It really is a case of writing a letter of complaint and then waiting a few days and then read it again. When you read it, with the benefit of hindsight, and thinking about it you will understand why you get the stock replies. I always try to consider my complaints from the other side. If I got that letter what would my response be? I then rewrite it. You would be surprised at some of the letters people write. They complain about every thing under the sun without actually addressing the reason they are not happy.
There is nothing wrong with T&Cs really no matter how one sided you may consider them. It is just that none of us really takes the time to study them. As far as comments we get such as I wil never ever book a holiday with X again then we all have the same problem. There are a limited number of TOs going where we want nto go so you either stay at home or swallow your pride. I have had lots of great holidays with the major TOs and one or two that were memorable for all the wrong reasons. I still book with them.

fwh

Kevin

you're getting a bit swamped here by more experienced people. The BIG problem is that customer service in the tour operator/ travel agent business is generally poor compared to virtually any other business you are likely to use. In general Thomas Cook come somewhere in the middle/ higher end of their league but that's not saying much. Travel is very complicated business of sub contracting and standard T&Cs and complaining is almost a ritual of standard 28 day response times and fobbing off designed to wear you down. I don't blame you for not wanting to do business with them in future but don't expect much better from the competition.

In the case of your first problem, a 13 hour delay would probably have been enough to claim somethng off your insurance and depending on whether the airport/airline came under EU rules (it definately would for the outward flight) you should have got some refreshments. It was up to you to know what the insurance conditions were, not for TC to tell you. If they should have provided refreshments and didn't then you had cause for complaint.

Your second problem was the use of email to complain - never a good idea and this time it's not always their fault. Many emails sent by TC will be blocked by spam filters and the customers will never know. Do you know what your spam filter settings are? Just to make it worse, if you use email from work and it's a big company the spam filter at TC may block the original complaint.

At this point you were unhappy and not getting anywhere. So why did you give them more money? You're sending a message to them there - they can get away with it. This time they've pulled the old trick of 8 weeks and 2 days (you wouldn't believe how common that is). The 8 week rule is for compensation but doesn't affect refunds. If they have moved you more than the T&Cs allow for then the right to cancellation with refund will kick in. You need to study the T&Cs, it will be there under major changes. But if that option is open to you there won't be a lot of time to get a refund and book something else - which TC know, which is why they wait until 8 weeks and 2 days and take so long to issue refunds. And so do the other big names!

Before you book any more holidays spend a few weeks going through all the complaint threads on this board and see what goes on.

Thanks for the last reply, i understand that unforseen things can happen, although maybe it just bad luck that it has happened to me twice a year after one another it is still frustrating not getting what your hard earned money has paid for. The reason i have said i will not book with thomas cook again is the service i have received from them has been shocking, quite cheeky on the fone, totally refusing to talk to me and leaving us sitting in an airport for 13 hours with no- one bothering to come near us. It may well be that holidays are far different from the local high street but travel firms are still a selling company, therefore advertising and selling holidays for certian times only for them to change at the drop of a hat is surely cause for an explanation or some sort of compensation, £1800 this holiday has cost me and to lose a day is certainly not me or my family getting what we have paid for or looked forward to. I may not have much experience in this area but i certainly know the value of money and like everyone else i wish to recieve what i have paid for, surely a tour operators customer has the same rights as any other customer in whatever field.

surely a tour operators customer has the same rights as any other customer in whatever field.

You would expect so and you have - except they seem to make it as difficult as they possibly can.

In the last three years I have complained to Thomson twice - a totally painless experience and TC once. I admit that I gave up in the end after six months of to and fro. And all I asked for was an explanation. I finally got a letter that was so badly written I doubted the ability of the person I was dealing with to tell me the time with any accuracy.

Whilst I appreciate you are not happy at least you have finished up here on HT. The answer we give may not always be the one you want but the help and advice you get will be accurate and subject to small print on page 79.

Please stay around. Browse the forums and get unbiased points of view and first class advice. Post a review of your holiday and see if you can help.

Enjoy your holiday even if it is not as long as you planned.

fwh

whilst you have the same rights it will be the rights to what it says in the contracts - and the T&Cs of most tour operator's contracts (which always have a little box to tick to say that you read them first) say they can alter the agreed holiday to point of almost being unrecognisable. That's the difference, if you go into Comet and give them money to deliver a 600mm wide white cooker with a 4 element ceramic hob their T&Cs don't say that if they have supply problems it might not be white, might not have ceramic (or 4) and could be anything from 500-700mm. Your rights are basically to what it say in the T&Cs not what it says in the brochure.

And I've just remembered there is something worse than tour operators T&Cs - it's travel insurance policy small print!

All as bad as each other then, i am in wait of another reply so as soon as i get that i will maybe post it up to get a laugh!

One of the major problems is that often only one company go where and when we want, particularly for flights, so we don't always have the option of refusing to travel with them.

I've just resolved a serious complaint against a package tour operator, and even got them to change their T&Cs. Always check out the Package Holiday Regulations 1992 - these state very clearly what your rights our under consumer regulations.

Additionally, you could contact Holiday Watch on the internet. They appear to register holiday compalint experiences which they are using in dealings with the Uk Government and EU Commission, as the latter are considering de-regulation of holiday laws.

Too many holiday companies expect us to just "roll over" and accept poor customer service. It's very frustrating, but good luck, and more importantly, don't give up!

do you read every bit of terms and conditions?

Actually YES, because the cost of a holiday is not cheap and I want to be sure that I know EXACTLY what I'm contracting into and what the holiday provider agrees to do on their side.

If you don't then you risk putting yourself in a position where you have no redress when situations occur that affect your holiday. And if you don't understand what's in the contract ... which is legally binding ... ASK.

I absololutely agree with you Alsacienne - I always do exactly the same but I think that the problem is that not everybody realises that they are entering into a legally binding contract and some people somehow think that they can re-negotiate the terms of that contract after the event when it turns out that we are unhappy with the service or product we received. The unfortunate reality is that if we the consumers are foolish enough not to read the T&Cs and then still 'tick' or sign to say that we have, then we ARE fools and can't complain if large companies treat us as such.

I know that sounds harsh but most of the successful instances of complaints against TOs and TAs are won because they have been forced to comply with not just the law but their own T&Cs - so it would be hypercritical of us consumers to argue that T&Cs should only apply to the TO/TA and not us as well.

SM

there is a sort of natural brain process that makes people expect the best, so even though they sort of understand that they are signing a contract many will just expect that it will be as honest and easy going as they assumed (even though they won't actually consider or assume anything until an argument crops up). On the opposite side to this hopeless optimism are the Tour Company legal writers who frequently shock even the cynics amongst us. "Not Getting Ripped Off" really needs to be taught as a core subject in high school!!!