I don't understand your point - these T&Cs aren't unique to TR and neither are they an airline or a TO and the point is that they don't sell 'holidays' - they sell you the components so that you can go DIY. TR functions much more like a price comparison site for flights, hotels etc that then also enables you to book with the supplier offering the best price or the product best suiting you. I assume that one of the reasons why their prices are so competitive is because it is a largely automated process and isn't based on them having large numbers of employees who then manually process all the bookings.

But more importantly - unless you are paying a great deal - eg for a transferable/refundable ticket with a full service scheduled airline or a TO that specialises in high end bespoke packages, I don't know of any airlines or TOs that provide customers with a 24 hour 'cooling off' period. It's pretty standard practice, that once you've booked, you've booked and I've never come across a mass market TO that lets you cancel within 24 hrs of booking.

SM

Hi SM

In my experience the TR's terms and conditions with regards to being liable to pay for a confirmed element of a DP where the other element has failed is very unique! According to their terms and conditions if using the website to book a dynamically packaged holiday and the flight confirms and the accommodation doesn't the consumer will be liable to pay for the flight even though they have no accommodation.

There is a massive risk involved here, what about last minute family holidays in peak season, you have a family of 4 booking a last minute holiday to turkey when accommodation availability is sparse? The booking goes through, flight confirms but no family rooms left in hotel so accommodation fails. What then? The family are left with a flight only booking costing in the region of £1200 and no suitable accommodation.

Your'e correct charter flights and low cost airlines would be non refundable from the time of confirmation but working within the industry if problems arise there is a good possibility to revert if it's cought within 24 hours. Sorry if repeating myself here.

You have also hit the nail right on the head by mentioning the automated process, no need for much staff, keep the over heads down and the margins small, it's always been the destinany of the travel agency.

In my experience the TR's terms and conditions with regards to being liable to pay for a confirmed element of a DP where the other element has failed is very unique! According to their terms and conditions if using the website to book a dynamically packaged holiday and the flight confirms and the accommodation doesn't the consumer will be liable to pay for the flight even though they have no accommodation.

These are hardly unique to TR - a browse through this forum and the one for TAs and TOs provide numerous examples of where customers have fallen foul of this with other on-line bookers.

Your'e correct charter flights and low cost airlines would be non refundable from the time of confirmation but working within the industry if problems arise there is a good possibility to revert if it's cought within 24 hours.

I think many people would find it very helpful in that case to know which TA/TO or airline that you work for that offers this facility because this is a recurrent problem for all sorts of reasons for members of HT. We often get reports here of people who encounter problems when they suddenly realise almost as soon as they've booked that they need to cancel or change all or part of an on-line booking but then discover that the T&Cs don't allow for this. Whilst advertising on HT is not encouraged, as you've seen the Admins and Mods do encourage staff members who can offer help to HT members in the way that Steved1 does ande I'm sure that you would be welcome to the fold.

SM

I agree with Sma, i've yet to find a TA or TO that allow free time to change things. It's a case of once you've booked it mate, tough! It's up to us to make sure we're booking what we want.

Hi SM

In my experience the TR's terms and conditions with regards to being liable to pay for a confirmed element of a DP where the other element has failed is very unique

Not unique at all with DP.
The only thing is they should make it clear at the start that they are booking a DP.

Also people who book their own holidays seperatly flights accomodation transfers are doing DP all the time.
Same thing would apply to them if one part of their DP failed, they would still have to pay for the rest.

My point is customers using a service such as Travel Republic where you are able to search a date, using a combination of charter flights, schedule and low cost airlines matching them up with available accommodations from different bed banks. As all this works, selecting your flight then accommodation put on bags transfers etc, what you don't expect and shouldn't expect is when you enter your payment and press confirm and according to their terms and conditions, if you receive a confirmation email advising flight has booked and hotel didn't or vice versa, you'll be refunded the amount of the element that didn't confirm but not any of the amount for element that did.

Steve has said (and not having a go at him, he seems a great guy and all that, coming on HT and helping folk out) Steve has said if they're able to refund free of charge as per suppliers terms then they will gladly do so but if not then I'm sorry but it's all confirmed, see yer later.

Now, we all know Travel Republic are offering a service, (and obviously a very good one too, 4000 bookings in one day is massive) a service where instead of sitting endlessly at the computer searching through the different flights and hotels on different dates to all sorts of destinations, it can drive you round the bend. Instead, using a few different parameters on the website, bang, you can do it all in one go, in a matter of minutes. Alas though if you were actually making this booking on your own, direct with the airlines and suppliers then as i mentioned early, senisibly you'd book the accommodation first then the flight.

If TR system is all automated then who can tell what will confirm and what won't and in what order?

Going back to points raised earlier regards to flight bookings I was speaking from experience from within the industry not as a direct consumer.
It's easier (from within the industry) to get out of a charter flight booking than it is if it's a low cost airline but saying that I've got out of these on a few occassions but importantly it's needs to be caught within 24 hours really.

My experience has all been manually making bookings though where if you are careful and do it the correct way then you shouldn't really be in a position where you are stuck with a flight and no hotel or vice versa.

So, maybe the TR's terms and conditions are not so unique then if there are more automated booking systems coming through on the web it's just when I read the T&C's I was quite shocked has I've not come across this before and don't think it's fair on the customer, bit of pot luck really, whats going to confirm and what's not? But the devil is in the detail and if that's the way it's going to be then that's the way it is.

Alas though if you were actually making this booking on your own, direct with the airlines and suppliers then as i mentioned early, senisibly you'd book the accommodation first then the flight.

Well i for one dont do it that way. the flight is the most important element to me so I book that first. I'm sure if my first choice accomodation wasn't available that I'd manage to find something else that was suitable. I think it would be much harder to find a suitable flight as it's important that I fly from one of two local airports that don't have too many flights on offer.

Not that it matters which one is booked first. If they're not booked as a package holiday, they stand as separate bookings whichever way you look at it.

Have to agree with shirley flights first then accomodation.
Like she says you can always get accomodation even if its not your first choice accomodation.

Going back to points raised earlier regards to flight bookings I was speaking from experience from within the industry not as a direct consumer.

That's what I understood you to say - which was why I asked you which company you worked for because I'm sure that there are members here who would like to be able to book with a company that is able and willing to cancel confirmed bookings made as part of a dynamic package as long as this is done within 24 hrs. I've never come across tihs before and would like to know more.

But like Shirley and AP1408 my first priority is usually getting the flights booked because I am starting my journey from Scotland with a limited number of options for flights from Edinburgh or Aberdeen. With La Gomera, I am lucky in having a helpful local agent who will hold a reservation for me for up to week while I get the flights sorted and will let me change or cancel without charge if I can't get flights but she is a small independent TA dealing direct with local owners in a market where there is a surplus of accommodation, so she and the owners are able to be flexible and will go the extra mile in order to secure a booking but I've never found a TA here who can do this let alone a mass market on-line one.

SM

I too would never book accommodation before a flight. I'd always be able to find accommodation to suit, but a flight from one of my regional airports, at a time and price that suits is far more difficult.

Again regards to the flight booking I was speaking more from a viewpoint as an agent than a consumer and it was just to try and illustrate my point with regards to manual bookings verses an automated booking engine and why I was a little shocked at the t&c's of TR.

If booking manually and a booking request for a flight and hotel booking comes through, the member of staff that picks the booking up would first check all is available at the advertised price and correct rooms etc. Then proceed to book all elements, as they are seperate elements they would need to booked one at a time so the safest way for that member of staff to make the booking is to start with the accommodation first then the flight. This is because as mentioned earlier contracts with hotel suppliers work differently to that of the airlines contracts. Accommodation suppliers tend to allow 24 hours grace if need to make amendments or cancel the booking down entirely free of charge. Also alot hotel supplers will alow amendments or cancellation free of charge even up to 4 days prior to check-in.

The 24 hours grace with regards to airlines and tour ops', now this is not set in stone and helps if you have contacts but it involves alot of begging and if they agree to cancel down then it's considered a favour and you can't ask for to many of those, outside of 24 hours then it's very difficult.

Althougn once, I was working for a fairly well known agency and they operated in a similar way as TR were the payment for the flight goes straight to the airline and essentially they just sell you the ground arrangements. Anyway it was late 21:30 and needed to get off to get the train home soon and a call came through, I figured I had just enought time to get it all confirmed.

Trying to make the booking the bed bank system I was using was really lugging, it was taking ages. So I broke the golden rule and booked the flights first to try and save time. When coming to book the accom. it wasn't there and really what I should of done is told the customer the booking has gone to request then check with supplier in the morning. Instead I came clean and said I'd book the flights but don't have any availability in the hotel. It was 2 rooms in a 3* all inclusive in salou and hoping he would have a 2nd choice as let's face it Salou is not short of 3* all inclusive hotels.

No chance, he'd spent hours researching the hotel and would simply go away and start again and at that point I was liable to pay the cost of the flights which was around £500. And the payment was made with Flymonarch directly off the customers card. I left the office around 23:00.

I left notes with the operations dept. Explaining what had happened and to see if they could get it cancelled down f.o.c. as I weren't due in the following day (which was another mistake) When I got back it still weren't cancelled after 48 hours but I had a contact at monarch I met on an educational and she put me through to the team leader on at that time. He agreed to cancel if I could prove the same customers had booked alternative flights for the same time frame.

I spent a week trying to get hold of this guy, emailing and leaving messages with his girlfriend explaining I just needed his new booking reference so I can get flymonarch to refund his card. I even promised him I'd pay for his parking in the airport.

To make things worse I'd only been working for this company for 2 weeks and the cantankerous old witch that was the owner/boss wouldn't actually believe me when I said monarch had agree to refund if I could get the ref. number!? "why would they, it's non refundable ticket?" she said.

I walked out of that job that week mainly because the owner just had no peoples skills at all, lol. Although I'd also been sending this Salou guy the emails from home on my own email account and he did eventually reply with booking his details and asked for the offer of the parking, lol.
I had to tell him I have be careful with my pennies as I had no income but would honour it later on once back on me feet. I fowarded his booking details on to monarch and they did refund his card.

Sorry SM wasn't ignoring you. I work more on the sales side of things now on a self employed basis so I don't want to reveal too much on forums as it looks like just using it as an opportunity to gain custom (I hate that) although I have gained up some contacts within the industry so would be please to be able to help if i could.

Now I'm even more confused! For example, you start off by telling us that

It's more difficult to get out of a flight booking but again most tour operators and airlines tend to allow 24 hours grace if need to cancel due to an operational issue.

And then tell us

The 24 hours grace with regards to airlines and tour ops', now this is not set in stone and helps if you have contacts but it involves alot of begging and if they agree to cancel down then it's considered a favour and you can't ask for to many of those, outside of 24 hours then it's very difficult.

So it's presumably what I thought to be the case all along - it isn't standard practice for airlines to let you cancel within 24 hrs and in fact it's very difficult to get them to agree to this.

But most confusingly of all, having told us that what happened to the OP was disgraceful, shouldn't have happened and they were entitled to all their money back because TR should really have a manual system where all these things are carefully checked out with care before taking any of the customers money, you go on to tell us a story that demonstrates that these things can still happen with manual systems when the staff cut corners! No wonder you don't want to tell us where you work or the trading name that you now operate under. I'd originally asked because I thought that it sounded as if it was a company that it would be good to do business with but now I'd like to know for the opposite reason.

SM

Now, come on SM, I said most airlines/tour operators and I said if it needs to be cancelled due to operational issues which happen from time to time, not a case of, I've changed my mind and want to cancel. So if thats the part you found interesting then you was mis-understaning me. There are airlines and tour operators out there that work with and appreciate the support of travel agents so when problems occur they can be understanding.... as not everyone apparently is so obtuse.

The story I shared was just to try and show what I meant by booking the flight before the accommodation and if you had read it back the customer wasn't left with the problem, I was. I would of had to pay for the flights out of my own pocket had he not replied with his reference number. He gave me a call when he received his refund and was apologetic, it turned out he wasn't sure about giving me his reference as he thought I would cancel or change his holiday, we both had a good laugh at that, he was only young.

All this is just veering away from the point.
SM let's just agree that you find the TR t&c's fair and I don't.

SM let's just agree that you find the TR t&c's fair and I don't.

Whether they're fair or not is irrelevant as it's up to the customer to read them before making a decision whether to book. I think what Sma's saying is that the particular aspect of TR's T&Cs that you find unfair isn't unique to travel republic. All 'holidays' apart from Package holidays will normally be split into at least two separate entities-flight and accomodation (and sometimes transfers). If one's affected the seller isn't obliged to refund the other. Of course a gesture of good will is great but isn't always forthcoming. I'm afraid this is the case for travel Republic or any other company that put holidays together.

whiskeytangofoxtrot i to would be interested who you work for?

To me it's unique or should i say not common then Shirley? In fact show me another example please.

Sorry whiskeytangofoxtrot, I'm finding it hard to believe that you work in the industry if you don't believe us. There are far too many examples to list- Alpharooms is one that springs to mind, along with expedia (two of a long list) but as I've had excellent service with TR, I've only used them.

So are you going to spill the beans and tell us who you work for?

Beat the Brochure is another company that works in exactly the same way as TR. There are dozens of them!! Only the big TO's such as Thomas Cook and Thomson sell true package holidays, the others do not and all have the same T&C's as TR. Ask all the people that were affected by the ash cloud, Agean air going bump etc etc etc

whiskeytangofoxtrot why are you avoiding the question on who you work for.
You are happy enough to comment on the other comments ?

I am beginning to think you are a trawl.