Thanks for that. We are off to Mexico at the end of August and I was intending learning a few basic words.

Only listened to the first podcast, but it seems really good!!!!

Fiona.
For Mexico it would probably be more useful to learn Spanish from a site, CD or programme that has been created in the USA, because just like English and American English differs with certain words that still mean the same thing, so does Latin American Spanish and Castilian Spanish……and even if the words are the same and have the same meaning, some are pronounced differently.

Sanji

Great post ,thanks

I think that these lessons are very basic. That is not to criticize, everyone has to start somewhere.

When you use the words and phrases you should be understood in almost all Spanish speaking countries, including Mexico. The problem is that you will not be able to understand much of what will be said back to you.

The people giving the lessons are not native Spanish speakers. They are speaking most of the time in an accent like the people from Valladolid, which is known as having the ‘perfect’ Spanish accent. Unfortunately this is not the Spanish that can be heard daily on the streets of Spain and definitely not what will be heard in South America.

Why do people do this?
Why do English people want to learn Spanish from another English person, rather than a Spaniard?
It happens all the time here. English people advertising Spanish lessons for other English to learn.
You will never learn properly that way.

There are 80 lessons last time I looked. The person giving the lessons has a Scottish accent. I`m sure we would like to learn from a native Spanish speaker. I am aware that I probably won`t understand the reply I get, but I`ll learn the common courtesy of asking politely and thanking the person for their service.
Should you be able to offer a better alternative, from a native speaker, for free, I shall be most obliged.

Why do people do this?
Why do English people want to learn Spanish from another English person, rather than a Spaniard?
It happens all the time here. English people advertising Spanish lessons for other English to learn.
You will never learn properly that way.

Because this is the way that most people start to learn another language. Very few of the native Spanish speakers that I know started off learning their English from a native English speaker either - the exceptions are those who have one Spanish and one English parent and hence a head start from birth - and none of the Cubans that I know did. But it never prevented any of them becoming really good English speakers if they persevered with it. When you are an absolute beginner it is re-assuring to know that your teacher knows what it's like to have tried to learn that language from scratch. It's also re-assuring to think 'Well if they have been able to master it, then there's hope for me too!' This must be a particular relief to anybody trying to learn English - it's such an irregular language - but even if my Latin American colleagues never do fully master all the different ways that 'ough' is pronounced in English or even if they never do acquire a perfect BBC English accent (which they probably never will being surrounded by native Scots English speakers!) we do still understand each other perfectly well.

When you start learning another language it can be a problem that people might assume that you know more than you actually do and that you only pick up half what they say in reply but if you let that put you off you would never even make a start. On the whole, I find that it's better to make the effort than not to and that native Spanish speakers will make allowances and speak more slowly and simply etc once they realise that I'm not as fluent as I might initially come over as.

I started off learning both German and Spanish with the BBC's 'Get by in...' language courses using their CDs. They got me started and gave me enough confidence to have a go - yes, my accent probably left a lot to be desired but I did indeed get by as a tourist. My careful Castillian lisping raised a few smiles in the Canary Islands on my first visit and I soon realised that I wasn't going to be able to disguise my natural slight lisp after all because none of the locals were lisping But nobody made fun of it and at least I was prepared for it on my first trip to Cuba. Having a hearing impairment as well probably means that my accent is probably still no better even though I have since been taking classes with native Latin American Spanish speakers but, yes, it has done wonders for my vocabulary and given me a more colloquial grasp of street Spanish but I'd never had achieved that if I hadn't started somewhere and perhaps more importantly not allowed myself to be put off by the stream of Spanish that my hesitant requests for street directions or a food order in a bar etc elicited.

And in the end, anything that gets the British trying to learn another language - even if it's another Brit saying 'Come on, you can do this' - rather than always trading on the willingness of the rest of the world to learn and speak English to us, surely has to be a good thing?

SMa

great post Sma

It happens all the time here. English people advertising Spanish lessons for other English to learn.
You will never learn properly that way.

Poppycock- My now friend, who was my Spanish teacher or mi profesora de Español, she is English, she is now the head of languages for the regional college, she has more qualifications than you'd find listed on el menú del día board, and the only reason why she doesn’t live permanently in Spain and teach both English and Spanish is because of one thing and one thing only…WAGES.!

Many years ago she learnt her basic Spanish by living in Spain with her Spanish lover, and from there she has studied for many years and carved out a profession teaching Spanish to English (British) people and now added teaching English to the immigrantes. So not only does she know the 'perfect' Spanish language (Castilian Spanish which is considered the proper form) to teach her students, she also knows the street talk, talk that you won't find on sites like the BBC, which she uses with close Spanish families and friends.

Why should she spend time teaching phrases like 'Tonto de Culo' or 'Hijo de puta' to her students, when learning the verbs and the phonetic alphabet is far more important to the beginner? And if you’re going to use the phrases I have mentioned, then you’d better be sure of where, when and to whom you’re going to use them to, otherwise you might find yourself on your back seeing stars. Lol

Yes, there’s street talk, slang and regional variations, but unless you are fluent in Spanish, then don’t use these phrases just because someone thought it ‘clever’ to teach you a few rude words or phrases.
Regarding Latin America, an example that comes to mind is "coger"….. in Spain it means to catch, for example, ‘coger el autobus’ (to catch the bus), but in Latin America it’s slang for sexual intercourse, so that is why I said it would be more useful to learn some Latin American Spanish for Mexico. Your Marido (husband) becomes your Esposo in Mexico or Coche (for a car) becomes Carro, etc. etc. etc.

Apart from the regional differences, the pronunciation is different and the most noticeable difference that is seen throughout Latin American Spanish is the pronunciation of ‘Z’, ‘CI’, and ‘CE’.
In Spain the Z and C are pronounced as an unvoiced "th", like in tooth. EG: Cerveza (beer) = ther- váy- tha or Gracias = Grá-thee- as …….In Latin America, Andalusia and the Canary Islands these sounds are pronounced "S", like in peace. EG : Gracias = Gra-see-as .

These differences stem from the fact that all of the ships sailing to the New World had to come through Andalusian ports and many of the crew acquired this particular pronunciation, so the first Spanish speakers who came to America spoke this way and therefore South American speakers continue to use this pronunciation.

I'm not fluent to the degree that I could hold a political conversation with the Spanish Health Secretary and unless I go and live in Spain, I accept the fact that I won't progress much further from where I am now, but I'm fluent enough to be able to get from A to B and hold a reasonable conversation with my Spanish friends, and I guess most people who are starting out learning Spanish with the aim of using the language during their holidays, that would be all they want too.

Sanji

I don't think I'll be catching any buses

I wrote that I was not criticizing the lessons and that everyone has to start somewhere. The lessons offered are free, basic and given by people that are not native Spanish speakers. If you know that they will not make you be able to have any sort of conversation, then that is OK.

I think people may have not understood my other comments.

We have many English people here that call themselves Spanish teachers. They advertise in the local press and they wander around the bars asking for the owners to put up posters advertising their lessons.

Some bar owners allow them to use their bars as classrooms as they know that the people will buy drinks.
I don’t.

I have never spoken to a ‘teacher’ that is qualified or has more than just a basic knowledge of Spanish. Why should I allow them to cheat their pupils in my bars?

My point was that here in Spain, with so many qualified language teachers; why would English people want to learn Spanish from another English person?

Hey Ayrshire Tripper.
I was going to leave this, but I’m not.
I have gone through most of the lessons (not all of them) the jingle got on my nerves at times, but considering the lessons are free and you can download them, I could put up with the jingle.

The lessons are good, the profesor is teaching you the correct way to pronounce words and I discovered the Q& A section, which is excellent because the girl is Mexican and occasionally she gives the different meanings between Spain and Latin American Spanish.
Don't know if you have noticed, but the guy loses his Scottish accent when he speaks in Spanish? Yup, he's speaking in Spanish, Just the same as mi profesora loses her Yorkshire accent.

The lessons are at a slow pace and the girl exhibits the difficulty of pronouncing the words and getting her tongue in the right place......and actually, Scottish people will probably find rolling the Rrrrrrrs easier to master.

You have to learn the phonetic alphabet, otherwise you will never know how to pronounce a word or attempt to pronounce it when you see it writen down…… And at first you will not understand most of what the Spanish reply back at you.

I was told, at first, not to try and hang onto every word in a reply, but to let the words you know ‘soak in’ and get the general gist of the subject being discussed….the words that fill the gaps will come later with practise and exposure to the language, and not to spend time translating in your head,..... think in Spanish, learn in Spanish.

And that’s the problem by not having daily exposure to the language, you learn six new words and because you’re not using them on a daily basis, you forget three of them the following week. So programmes like this are good because you can keep going back to refresh your memory at a time that suits you..

The lessons offered are free, basic and given by people that are not native Spanish speakers. If you know that they will not make you be able to have any sort of conversation, then that is OK

Well, I don't know what kind of conversation Español engages in, but I paid for my lessons from someone who can speak better Spanish than some Spaniards, and basically in the begining, the lessons were similar to what the Scottish chap is teaching, except I had a lot of theory to do that concentrated on things like the verbs, which will enable you to speak in the past, present & future tense, and also the use of the subjunctive and imperfecto de subjuntivo verbos.

My lessons were for a GCSE, the Scottish guy is in fact teaching conversational Spanish. There is a difference. Years ago I enrolled at night school for conversational Spanish (non-vocational subject) and later at college on a GCSE course.
It’s wrong to believe that just because someone is Spanish, and I mean a native Spaniard, not someone who has made themselves a Spanish citizen, that they are automatically qualified to teach 'proper’ Spanish.

Español -
You seem to have a 'downer' on the English, so please, will you learn the difference between speaking the English language and being English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish and being a British citizen.

Sanji

I was told, at first, not to try and hang onto every word in a reply, but to let the words you know ‘soak in’ and get the general gist of the subject being discussed….the words that fill the gaps will come later with practise and exposure to the language, and not to spend time translating in your head,..... think in Spanish, learn in Spanish.

this is what i was told as well.
i have used the BBC site, and various different CD packages over the years, and can now get by when i am in spain. i still struggle when speaking to the natives, but have learned to get the gist of the conversation and i find that i am generally ok after that.i still sometimes have to ask my g/f the subject of a conversation when we are out with spanish friends as they speak so quickly, and use slang, but then i can usually follow ok and contribute.
i think the main problem is that we dont practise enough, and think that 2 or 3 weeks of listening to a CD will get us by. it will to an extent in that you will be able to say please and thank you, order food and drink and make similar sorts of requests, but you will not be able to hold a conversation.
for most of us going on holiday that is more than enough. it is only when you want to live there, or spend lots of time there, that you need to learn more.
i think i understand espanol's point in that you should learn from a spaniard rather than from an ex-pat, but just learning the language is not the whole point. if you are going to spend all, or a lot of, your time there you also need to learn about spanish law and how it affects brits, and i think that most brits want that sort of knowledge from someone who understands their concerns and can give them advice on things like opening bank accounts, moving money, work permits etc. so it is not solely about learning to speak like a native.
i normally only go to catalonia, so it is further complicated in that the locals speak catalan rather than spanish. i actually get on better with this as i studied french at school and because i live in the south east have done many trips to france as well as holidays and have retained a great deal of what i learned.when i struggle to find the spanish word for anything i will use the french word and find that in a lot of cases it is similar enough to catalan to make myself understood.
i dont know about others, but i find it a lot easier to read spanish than pronounce it. i have been known to read the spanish newspaper in a bar when the other half is wandering around clothes shops.
i have also tried to learn bulgarian, to hold conversations with her family, but regardless of listening to CDs, being exposed to it on a regular basis, watching bulgarian tv i just cannot get it. i can say hello, please, thank you and that is it.
makes for some strange conversations round the dinner table when we have to talk and translate english, spanish, french, catalan and bulgarian to make sure we all understand.

It doesn’t take much to confuse me these days, but I think Español moved the goal posts.
His initial post was about a non-native teaching Spanish and the ‘type’ of Spanish being taught with reference to the programme by ‘radiolingua’.
So, my reply was that just because someone isn’t a native, it doesn’t mean they cannot teach Spanish, and in some cases they may be better qualified than a native.
Then he moved the goal posts to the issue of ex-pats teaching Spanish.

i think i understand espanol's point in that you should learn from a spaniard rather than from an ex-pat, but just learning the language is not the whole point. if you are going to spend all, or a lot of, your time there you also need to learn about spanish law and how it affects brits, and i think that most brits want that sort of knowledge from someone who understands their concerns and can give them advice on things like opening bank accounts, moving money, work permits etc. so it is not solely about learning to speak like a native

I agree Jim, I’m not going down the road of discussing ex-pats, so, rather than tar everyone with the same brush, let’s just suppose that I had moved to Spain when I was around 10 years old with English parents.
I would have probably gone to a Spanish State school and maybe college, I have lived in Spain for 30/40/ 50 years and I’m fluent in both languages.
I know the rules and the system having done it myself for many years, I know Castilian Spanish because that is what I was taught in school, and I also know the local dialect, but I’m not a qualified teacher.

I’m a lonely old biddy who likes to get out of the house to meet people, so, I think to myself, “ I’ll go down to Jim's bar and teach some of the ex-pats some Spanish and tell them how they can access the Spanish Health System or how they go about registering at the town hall. etc etc etc”.
Would you not think that I would be helping? or maybe some people think a young Spaniard who hardly went to school, who got poor grades and who can’t speak English as good as me, that they would be more ‘qualified’ to teach British people speak the Spanish language, with the only qualification being that they are Spanish and they can advertise 'learn Spanish from a native"?

To teach anybody a different language, you first have to be able to communicate with them in their own language, so, if you have a Spanish teacher, they have to be fluent in English too.
I’m not saying this is what’s happening, but only highlighting that it quite easily could be the case in some scenarios, rather than being like Español and casting a blanket opinion on everyone.

Some Ayuntamiento’s periodically put on Spanish lessons for the foreigners in their province and charge a small fee, but maybe not in the foreseeable future with the austerity measures and the sweeping cut-backs all across Spain. And as the saying goes…...you can take a horse to the water trough, but you can’t make it drink. In other words, you can take people to Spain, but unless they want to learn Spanish, you can’t make them.

There’s plenty of people who have been in Spain for donkey’s years, who still cannot speak Spanish and there’s plenty who HAD to learn Spanish if they wanted to integrate, run a business and survive.
If you go and live somewhere like the Costa Blanca in the areas where the British have set up their enclaves, then the pressure to learn Spanish will not be as great as someone who goes to live in a Spanish village or town with very few English speaking inhabitants.

Sanji

My point of posting was that it may have been of use to some. We don`t go to Spain every year and when we do it`s only for 2 weeks. My niece, Scottish, is currently back in Scotland having lived most of her life in Spain. She attended Spanish state school , and never has any problems with the language . She also learnt German from Spanish during her school years, and Russian. She has friends who are native in these languages, all having gone to the same school, and some now moved on to Spanish Uni. A night in their collective company leaves me bewildered as the will converse in different languages with translations thrown in.

I am doing a lesson a day this week. Probably only get as far as the greeting when I'm there

every little helps Fiona

French, German and Italian are also featured on this website.

One of the managers at a company I worked with many years ago had a French wife and for their first few years the children were bilingual. He then moved to the Portguese office where they went to the German school and were taught in German and Portuguese.