I suppose the government does have to spend money on environmental matters like flood defences etc and this has to come out of income raised , the APD goes into the big pot and perhaps only some of it is spent on environmental projects but then it's easier to keep dreaming up new indirect taxes to raise more money like APD and IPT rather than the subtle approach of increasing the income tax and leaving your payslip looking sickly and depressing , you're still handing over the money but in different ways ? Ok no one likes paying more APD but I find it more alarming that we have to pay 20% tax on wiping our ar$e.

andy66 wrote:

Ok no one likes paying more APD but I find it more alarming that we have to pay 20% tax on wiping our ar$e.

Sorry Andy that had me Read on another forum that in some schools in Spain kids are now having to take their own loo paper into school every day, as certain local authoritys can non longer supply loo paper for the kids toilets. Sometimes i think we don't know when we are well off over here.

A holiday is a luxury item, not one of lifes necessitys

Doe

Andy, don't get me going on about what we do and don't pay VAT on! At least with PAYE income tax and my NI contributions I can look at my payslip each month and see exactly what my deductions are but with VAT it's almost impossible to work out how much of that I'm paying each month to the Exchequer. Or in Alcohol duty on the couple of bottles of wine I treat myself to each month etc. At least with APD I can also see how much I'm paying.

VAT is the 'hidden' tax that really pushes up the total tax we each pay - and it hits those on the lowest incomes the most because as ndy points out - loo roll is hardly a luxury. Unless we are to revert to the Roman method of using ( and re-using - urgh!) a wet sponge on a stick. Personally I'd prefer I an open higher rate of income tax and a reversion to a purchase tax that was levied on only genuine luxuries -such as holidays as Doe points out and not the myriad of everyday items that VAT is levied on.

And whilst we're not quite on the subject if I hear one more politician or political commentator go on about how we can't afford to pay me my public service pension when I retire in a couple of years time and that I have no right to expect what I've worked towards for so long because private sector employees will get worse pensions than me, then I'll be tempted to react with violence! I pay towards that pension through not only my own taxes and NI, because surprise, surprise, I'm a taxpayer as well, but on top of that I also pay 8% of my salary into my 'Superann' (which in £s actually paid is very nearly the same as my NI deduction each month!) and have paid into it for over 30 yrs now. As have my employers over the years at the rate of roughly 9%.

If private sector employees and employers between than had been paying an average of 15% (as is the case in my public sector scheme) of everybody's salaries over their working lifetime between them into a private pension pot from the moment someone started earning, then private sector pensions would be every bit as good! I fail to see why I should lose out on the pension I've been contributing to and building up for decades just because the private sector didn't and hasn't been doing the same, with the inevitable result that their pensions are now worth very little. It seems to come as a surprise to some who should know better if that a company takes 'holidays' from paying into their company pension scheme (which many in the good years did) or the company raids the scheme to re-invest in their own shares (which is essentially how a certain newspaper proprietor got away with legally looting said paper's pension scheme) then it's not going to be able to pay out either.

When I was younger I resented those big compulsory monthly deductions because of all the things that I couldn't spend that money on at the time but as I got older and closer to retirement I was glad that it was compulsory and had been a condition of my employment. I could then see the benefit in it - even if the actual amount I was paying was getting ever larger as my career progressed - and was glad that I hadn't been allowed to indulge my youthful 'spend now and worry about the future tomorrow' tendencies. And I now mightily resent those who WERE able to buy what I couldn't afford then (and that included a house - I couldn't afford a mortgage until I was 33!) because they weren't being forced to provide for their retirement over and above a basic state pension, but are now begrudging me my teacher's pension simply because they didn't have to make sure that they paid into a suitable pensions scheme when they were younger and chose to exercise their right not to take out a private pension.

Rant over!

M