Hi Sun Addict,

I take your point that if a number of people report a forum post on T/A then it is removed. I naviely thought that they had moderators scouring through all the posts and removing anything offensive. I actually have another T/A account and I have posted reviews myself in the past on hotels. I did not use that account because this subject was so different from my normal activity. I did not post a review on the hotel I stayed at, because the hotel was fine, it was the First Choice reps and TUI who were awful, so I did not think it fair to make those comments on the hotel site, I thought it more appropriate to use the forum.

In fairness to T/A, I have used their hotel reviews in the past to book hotels and if you put your cynical hat on when ploughing through them, my experiences have been good and I haven’t gone wrong yet.

However, your post encouraged me to read around the subject. I found this interesting article written two years ago.

I haven’t enough posts on here to post the link. Google Daily Finance, Is Tripadvisor one big joke.

I think it raises a number of issues about T/A. Firstly there is no check to ensure that a poster is really who they say they are. The system for removing posts on the forum or hotel reviews is automated. Therefore technically I could set up a number of accounts and vote by reporting inappropriate forum posts or that a hotel review is suspicious and have it removed.

On the hotel reviews if someone posts a negative opinion the hotel has the right to respond to it. However, they could just as easily make multiple postings of a “suspicious review” against the post and it would be automatically removed. I was not aware of this and it certainly changes my opinion of T/A being impartial.

Regarding my forum posts on T/A, I did not saying anything more offensive than I have posted here. In the T/A forum you have no opportunity to respond to having a post removed or closed. So if I post a criticism of a resort, hotel or company, all it takes is four or five thumbs down from unverified people to remove it. Really goes against the grain of an open forum where all views are heard or honest review of hotels. Hardly free speech!

Any reviews that posters report as 'problem with this review' have to give a reason after clicking suspicious, violates guidelines etc. why they think it is wrong. These go to TA and the moderators decide if the review stays or goes. The members can't get a review removed. The moderators are quite good at weeding out bogus reviews, before they are published. You should post reviews, good or bad. It helps other people make decisions.

Having more than one account is against TA guidelines. If anyone suspects that a person has more than one account and reports them, the person is banned. You can contact TA and have your accounts merged. Nothing to stop people 'recreating' themselves with a different user name, but lot's of posters can tell when people do this, from the way they write, and what they write about, so they get banned again (and the posts make for a good laugh, before they get removed). TA mods do remove posts, but when they do they always give a reason.

If you have a post removed you can contact TA and ask them for the reason. If they agree it was removed without reason they will reinstate it. The system only registers one report from each member. You can click away but it only counts once. If members abuse this system, the system automatically removes their write to be able to delete their own posts.

No forums, or review sites, are perfect. I know TA isn't thought well of by lot's of members on here, but it is my preferred site. I found the more time I spent reading forum posts, they more helpful it became. Yes, there are some idiots that post on there, but there are on all forums. There is also a wealth of knowledge on there as well. I found it great before travelling to Cuba, as travel agents know absolutely nothing about that lovely country and the rubbish they tell people is unbelievable. You get the correct info from TA members.

I don't think HT is the place to discuss TA so therefore you would kindly keep on topic ie the posters initial complaint.

Many thanks.

After having a good read through this thread I hope it helps people realise how easy it is to become a victim by circumstances they would never envisage , I really hope you are recovering from your accident Qwennie and thank you for sharing your experience you really do deserve justice , I doubt the people you thought responsible will do the right thing because they feel that they are not legally obliged to do so , but by spreading your account of what happened across as many Internet forums I'm sure it will make others just stop and think twice before doing something like quad biking or para sailing etc , ok these are considered dangerous because of the risks of "what could happen " but I have done quad biking in sharm many years ago and it was fantastic and I didn't think of the risks and most likely wasn't legally covered but I never felt in danger , it could easily have been me who could have suffered like you have .
I think your posts have been informative and rational and it seems you want everyone to be aware of these situations and the way tour operators handle them , you really do deserve to be treated better than you have .

I don't generally use Thomson / first choice but have in the past and have gone to their welcome meetings , if I was to use them now , I would go to the welcome meeting and if they are selling trips like this I would speak up and ask them directly about their safety and insurance cover , because they always used the line that if you booked with locals you have no cover , book with us and you have peace of mind , TBH they're a bloody joke .
I really would stand up and question them and then see how many people book their " dangerous" excursions , as usual they're covering their backsides and passing the buck just hoping nothing goes wrong as long as they get their money/sales quotas .
But by telling your experience across different forums people will remember this and will question the reps instead of placing their trust in a multi national company , if their sales go down they will have to find a way to restore the customers faith in them , thank you Qwennie for highlighting this situation , I wasn't aware of the actual implications if I had an accident like yours I just believed all the blurb they spout about how it's best to book your excursions with them .

Great post andy, and as an ex-rep, I am ashamed at the way you have been treated Qwennie

My annual insurance is up for renewal right now, and I am going to check and double check that everything I may do, or may want to do, and even those things I think I don't want to do, are completely covered. I took out an insurance for (mainly) the medical cover, but I will definitely be going over the T and C's before I sign away a lot of money this year.

thank you andie and Qwennie

Hi Andy, and thank you so much for your kind words. I’m actually a very private person and posting my situation on the internet is very much a last resort. I am so angry at the contempt this company has shown to me, that I really wanted people to understand what can happen if you buy an excursion and things go wrong.

I think it is important that people really understand that holiday reps will say anything to sell excursions. They do not have insurance. You must carry your own and ensure that you are covered for “activity sports”, which includes quads, paragliding, cycling, jeep safaris, sailing etc. If you have an accident the tour operator will direct you back to the local company.

I’ve been quad biking before, in the UK and on holiday and have enjoyed it and never considered it dangerous, - you drive the bike and control the speed, - but if the equipment is not up to standard you have a problem. Not sure about the rest of the world, - but I can definitely tell you that there are NO standards in Egypt. So in my case, technically, the local company have done nothing wrong, as there are no standards to start with. So regardless of what you rep will tell you, - they can send you out in any kind of deathtrap vehicle and no local regulations have been breached.

I think what angers me about the whole situation is the total cynicism of companies like TUI. They are very well aware of the above, but they still continue to sell excursions in this manner. I was aware of recent court cases which strengthened the consumers rights and assumed that they would have cleaned up their act. However, I have a number of contacts from people who inform me that they are still selling in this way.

I took my holiday at peak season and it cost quite a lot of money, and I have no problem with that, - the hotel was lovely, -(not that I got to enjoy it much!), - they transported me to where I wanted to be, - all good. However, they just could resist getting the last few pennies out of me. The hotel was all inclusive, and “welcoming meeting” took place in the bar, where guests could have a drink if they wanted. The reps launched their spiel about how the locals couldn’t be trusted and First Choice would look after them. And for what?

My trip cost £30. Out of that, they had to pay something to the local company, and commission to the rep. So that left them what, - a tenner. So this company was quite happy to risk my life for £10.

After my accident I assumed that I would make a full recovery, and requested from TUI the bare minimum, - which they have steadfastly refused. The medical treatment I have received since the accident has been paid for by the NHS, so cost them nothing, - however they refuse to meet the cost of my dental work which I have to pay for myself.

I now have an 8 inch file of correspondence from their legal department. They are quite happy to staff up with solicitors, whose expenses accounts alone would have paid for my dental work, to bat off claims and legal action. I absolutely understand that they have to deal with bogus claims and these have to be investigated. But TUI have had my medical records and photographs from Egypt, and I signed a form giving them permission to check my medical and dental records here in the UK.

I realise I’m ranting, - but I’m neither a liar or a lunatic, - so as they used to say on Hill Street Blues, (now I’m showing my age!), - JUST BE CAREFUL OUT THERE!!!!

Many thanks Fiona, and Mad Sue, please don't feel ashamed. I actually blame the systems that the Tour Companies such as TUI have set up. I don't believe any individual reps set out to deceive. I'm sure that reps have sales quotas to meet just to keep their jobs and that their low salaries make it necessary to flog these excursions. The reps tend to be youngsters and I am sure that they do not understand the repercussions of how they employer behaves when things go wrong.

My insurance is through Ageaus (sp) they cover quads up to 1000cc, the ones we use in sharm with thomsons were 998 cc

A very interesting and disturbing read.
I consider myself to be fairly savvy in most things.
If I was told that the trip was insured (even if only by implication) i would assume that TUI had a blanket 3 d aprty cover for all buying trips and excursions through them in case of loss or injury..
I have in the past bought trips from the reps and paid by credit card to Thompson/ First Choice/Tui as the case might be. The receipt has shown that the trip has been paid for and paid to Tui etc. and as such in my mind I would have been dealing with that company, not some local business.

Regarding personal travel insurance.
If I bought a policy saying "all risks" then I would assume that that is exactly what is covered.
If however they mean that the policy is "all risks excluding dangerous activities" then this is what it should say.
I wonder if "worldwide excluding the USA" actually means excluding the USA and a few dozen other countries?
There is far too much leeway allowed in the presentation of legal documents and there needs to be a radical overhaul of exactly what it is that you THINK you are buying.

Thank you Qweenie for making me think a little more carefully about these things.