I have just checked my Passport. On Page 2, Point 6 states, and I quote:-

"This Passport remains the property of Her Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom and may be withdrawn at any time. It should not be tampered with or passed to an unauthorised person.................."

I would not have thought that Hotel Receptionists were "Authorised" persons. Therefore, next time I travel overseas and am asked to hand my Passport over, I will refer the person who asks for for my Passport to this paragraph and refuse to let it out of my sight. Based on what it says in my Passport, I am not obliged to hand my Passport over and I will see what happens. I have never bothered to read the 'Notes' in my Passport before, but now I am glad that as a result of this thread I have done so.

I should point out that my Passport was issued in July 2001, and is not a Biometric Passport, so I am wondering if the 'notes' may have changed?

BHIC, i don't think the rules have changed. Rob used to travel quite alot abroad as a lorry driver, driving to many european countries and no one is entitled to take your passport away. He just presented it for examination at every border he crossed ( as you do in any country you enter ) and that was it.. he was on his way.

I think these days as there is the technology for unscrupulous people to forge passports, copy them and use them for people smuggling/terrorist purposes, no one should hand their passport over to anyone other than the authorities for any longer than it takes to examine them. I also would not be happy with anyone taking a photocopy of it.

Hi. Well based on what I have just seen in my Passport, I have no intention of letting the Hotel Reception Staff retain my Passport overnight in the future. They may 'borrow' it whilst I wait so that they can complete the appropriate Registration Form etc, but they are not going to keep it. If they decide to call the Police because of that, I will show the Police what it says in my Passport and take it from there.

Techincally speaking, it would appear that I have been commiting an offence up to now by letting my Passport out of my sight and handing it over to people who are certainly not authorised to retain it.

The UK Passport Agency does advise that occasionally, a foreign authority or organisation may need to hold your passport temporarily to comply with local laws.

In the case of hotel check-in, passports are sometimes retained temporarily so that registration formalities can be completed afterwards, allowing guests to collect their keys and go straight to their rooms. In some cases, a photocopy may be taken instead and the passport is immediately returned during the check-in process. This is for the convenience of guests, as well as busy hotel staff who can then complete registration formalities later when reception is quiet. This is often a task assigned to night shift reception staff, allowing passports to be returned next morning.

However, if for example you have a tour operator's coachload of holidaymakers arriving at a hotel and all guests deciding that they were not going to allow their passports to be photocopied or retained temporarily, then you would perhaps have to allow a few hours for check-in and registration, rather than a few minutes.

Would you be content to stand at a hotel reception for hours (perhaps several hours on a busy changeover day) before being given your room key, or wouldn't you prefer registration formalities to be completed at a time more convenient to everyone ?

I think that if you choose not to comply with local laws and requirements, then you either face lengthy delays, or perhaps even being told to go and book in elsewhere.

I personally do not have a problem complying with hotel procedures regarding passports. However, I may be somewhat more concerned about surrendering my passport to some of the various rental companies (bicycle, scooter, car, wheelchair, etc) which demand passports as security pending the safe and undamaged return of their property.

David

Well said David

Whilst I don't have any objections to my passport being photocopied or the details manually being copied from it, I would still object for the passport to be retained by hotel receptionists.

I spend some considerable time working out of Morocco and stayed in hotels. Their local law states that the hotel needs to inform the authorities of all guests residing at the hotel. This is done by sending the details (name, date of birth, place of birth, nationality, passport number and crucially the immigration ID number) electronically to these authorities. Despite the request for the passport to be retained, I have never been refused entrance to the hotel when I objected. A polite request for them to copy the details or to take a photocopy of my passport did the trick.

Would you hand over your credit card to the hotel for overnight processing? You wouldn't, hence most of the hotels take an imprint of the card. Similarly, why shouldn' the hotel take an imprint of your passport - e.g. a photocopy?

Mark

Similarly, why shouldn' the hotel take an imprint of your passport - e.g. a photocopy?

I think that is happening at more and more hotels now, Mark. But again there could be a problem at 'package holiday' hotels, when you have large groups of guests all arriving from the airport by coach at the one time. How long would it take to process registration for them all while they wait at reception, if one passport had to be photcopied before each room key could be issued ?

One solution may be if holidaymakers were advised in advance to carry a photocopy of the passport which should be surrendered to the hotel, but then there will be problems with those who forget, or perhaps bring one with poor print quality, etc. But even providing your own photocopy, it will still have to be matched by the hotel against the original passport, which will be time consuming, and will inevitably lead to long delays for groups of package holiday guests.

I appreciate that identity theft is a concern to many people. But if we mistrust everyone, we are going to make life very difficult for ourselves. You may need to surrender your passport (or a photocopy) to hotels for registration purposes, to exchange bureaux when encashing travellers cheques, to banks to reclaim your card which has been swallowed by an ATM, etc. If we can't trust those people with our passport or personal information, then perhaps we shouldn't be doing business with them, which in many cases may mean not going on holiday.

David

David, you make some very valid points once again, but however, on this occasion, and now that I have had a chance to study this thread, and read my Passport in full, I think I have to agree with Mark.

Are Hotel Receptionists 'Authorised Persons'? I would answer that 'NO', but perhaps I am wrong. But if I am right, then according to my Passport they have no legal right to ask me for it. Afterall, technically speaking my Passport is the property of Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth as it very clearly states in my Passport.

I can understand the point David makes about speedier check-in etc, but as someone else as pointed out a few posts back, Indentity Theft and Terrorism is on the increase, and I am most concerned that my Passport may fall into the 'wrong' hands, be copied and cloned with horrendous consequences for me.

I have to admit though that I have never been in a large group of people booking in all at the same time. My own personal experience is that it has been my parents and myself, so just the three of us, or at the most eight guests. I'm sure it would not take that long to 'process' so few guests? However, at places like the Rio Park in Benidorm where several full coach loads arrive within the space of a few minutes, I can see where David is coming from.

But it is an inescapable fact that it clearly states in my Passport that I should NOT hand over my Passport to "unauthorised" persons, and I simply cannot see how Hotel Receptionists can be classified as 'authorised' to retain my passport overnight.....which is more than long enough for it to fall into the wrong hands and be cloned. Sometimes, my Passport has been retained for much longer than overnight. This has been on the occasions when I have arrived at the Hotel around 4am...5am in the morning and I have not been able to get my passort back until the following day....some thirty or so hours later. And that has been when I have arrived at the Hotel with just my parents. How can it take them over thirty hours to process three guests?

Mark makes a valid point about comparing your passport to your credit card. Whilst I do not have and have never had and will never have a credit card, I would certainly not allow a Hotel Receptionist to retain my card overnight.

Passport Photocopies is obviously not the answer, as David says a photocopy will need to be compared to the original, so what is the answer? I don't know. But I do know that next time I am asked to hand over my Passport, I do intend to challenge that request and show them the notes in my passport that clearly staes I do not have to comply with their request as technically speaking I would be breaking a UK Law.....would I not?

In an ideal world, I would support Indentity Cards that stored all the information a Passport does and upon arrival at your Hotel you simply swipe your card through a slot or enter a PIN number. Surely with the increase of 'Chip & Pin' technology across the Globe this is possible? That way there would be no need to hand over your Passport and swiping a card through a slot would take just as long as it does to complete the Registration Card you are asked to fill in. Hotel Receptions could have 'bank' of Swipe Card machines so that queuing should not pose a problem. Just an idea

Gary ... by handing your passport over to a hotel receptionist, you are effectively giving your authority to them to retain it or copy it to comply with local registration formalities.

If you prefer not to do that, and unless Queen Elizabeth gets a part time job as receptionist at the Hotel Venus in Benidorm, then you have to be prepared for delays or any other check in problems which may result.

Bear in mind that these procedures are primarily for convenience rather than identity theft and as long as you are prepared to accept some delay and inconvenience during check in, the hotel may be happy to work with you, perhaps in some cases asking you to move to the end of the queue whilst they process guests who are happy to surrender their passports.

David

It is perhaps not so much the ID fraud I'm concerned about. I would trust a hotel in that respect.

What I don't trust is them loosing or misplacing documentation.

Once in Morocco I was based in Tangier and we travelled to Casablanca for the day to do some business with the full intention of returning back to my hotel in Tangier that evening. For that reason I did not take my passport with me. Unfortunately we were not able to return to Tangier resulting in us having to stay in a hotel in Casablanca overnight. Problem being here that without a passport I was refused overnight stay at any hotel we tried. This resulted in me having to go to the police station to obtain a statement with my details (the same details as mentioned in my earlier post) which cost be 3 hours
And that is exactly why I won't hand over my passport. If it is lost or misplaced by the hotel, it would take me a trip to the local police station and then to the local embassy/consulate to obtain an emergency passport. This will take away valuable time from my holiday, let alone the cost of obtaining such emergency passport.

Would the hotel that lost the passport re-imburse me? Probably not and if they did it would most probably mean me having to fight for these re-imbursements.

Mark

That is a very good point David, but my answer would be, do I actually have the "authority" do hand over my Passport to Hotel Receptionists? Not according to what it says in my Passport, no I don't. I think speaking from a personal point of view, I would rather queue, even if it was for an hour, than hand over my passport. What is an hour out of two....three weeks? However, think of all the inconvienience and expense that will be involved if the Hotel loses your Passport? A trip the local Police Station....language barriers, a trip to the Consulate? A tip to the Embassy? Requesting an emergency replacement?

PS...I'm sure the Queen would love the Venus Hotel and she would make an ideal Receptionist.....but thats another story
PPS...it is interesting to read the opinions of two HT MOD's with what appears to be opposing views, but that said, both making very valid points. This is a very interesting discussion. Thank You.

PPPS....having said all this, just WHY is a Passport still necessary when travelling within Europe? If the Euro is accepted in all euro 'states' (something I only recentley learnt ), then why are passports still necessary?

PPPS....having said all this, just WHY is a Passport still necessary when travelling within Europe? If the Euro is accepted in all euro 'states' (something I only recentley learnt ), then why are passports still necessary?

I suspect identification is needed (to board a plane or exchange currency for example) and as we here in England don't have ID cards (as yet??) a passport is the logical alternative.

Mark

Gary ...

I would rather queue, even if it was for an hour, than hand over my passport. What is an hour out of two....three weeks?

On changeover days at a busy and popular hotel, it could be much longer than that.

it is interesting to read the opinions of two HT MOD's with what appears to be opposing views, but that said, both making very valid points.

Mods and Admins often share different views on things, just as our members do.

I'm sure that thousands more passports are lost each year by careless holidaymakers than are ever misplaced by hotels and in that respect, this whole issue is probably not worth worrying excessively about.

Passports or identity cards are required and so in the case of UK citizens, it has to be a passport. You can't really compare a common currency with individual identity issues.

David

You can't really compare a common currency with individual identity issues.

I don't think that was what I was trying to do David (but maybe I was ).

I understand queing times at popular Hotels could indeed be much longer. But with all due respect, I think the "issue" is beginning to cause some concerns amongst the HT members, myself included, who are contributing to this thread. I've been reading up a great deal recemtley on Identy Theft and the practice of 'surrendering' you Passprt for several hours or even longer seems to me to be something we should be concerned about.

As a point of note, I have recentley applied for a CRB check to enable me to accept a job as a Residential Care Home Carer, and whilst I needed to show my original passport and details and photocopies were taken, I did not have to surrender it. I appreciate that is a little bit but it is somewhat related (IMHO).

And I still cannot understand why it is now only necessary to hand over one passport in your group and not all of them. Does that not make a mokery of the entire procedure?

i always understood that,as in the uk, you have to register at the hotel on check in.
in spain, the details are required by the police, and so they get the hotels to provide the information taken from passports, where in the uk we have to fill in a form at checkin.
i believe the chances of a passport going missing is minimal and so am happy to leave my passport overnight.
the alternative is for the spanish hotels to ask each guest to complete a registration form(almost certainly written in spanish) when they check in with the corresponding delay in being allocated your room.this would lead to terrible delays on checkin and frayed tempers.
i know i would be unimpressed if i was behind someone in the queue who wanted to argue the rights and wrongs of handing over a passport.
the law in spain(i dont know about everywhere else )is that your details are needed by the police, the hotel uses the quickest/easiest method of doing this ie copying the details and sorting it out overnight when reception is relatively quiet.
as i see it you have speedy check in or the manyana attitude that the spanish can be good at .
i know which i prefer.

If the passport has been handed over to a receptionist or member of staff in the hotel in which you are staying, then surely this wouldn't be classed as 'handing over your passport to an unauthorised person'. Surely the fact that you are remaining in the same building overnight while they have possession of your passport means that no official regulations on passports are being broken?

On holidays I would worry more than identify theft is more likely to happen from a break in at home while you are away than by hotel staff pilfering.

I do understand the concern over loss though, it must happen from time to time.

in spain, the details are required by the police

Not disputing your claim but this is absolutely new to me. Could you give me a link to a website that verifies this?

Mark

I would rather queue, even if it was for an hour, than hand over my passport. What is an hour out of two....three weeks? However, think of all the inconvienience and expense that will be involved if the Hotel loses your Passport? A trip the local Police Station....language barriers, a trip to the Consulate? A tip to the Embassy? Requesting an emergency replacement?

BHIC.
Well, I only hope that I`m not behind you in the queue.
I have booked into a hotel where the required information is printed out in Spanish on a form....and believe me, its a pain. Fact ! and depending on the amount of people booking in, then you`ll be more than an hour.
I also find it amazing that you have been going to Benidorm since the 80`s and have trusted the hotel staff, but now are having serious doubts about their honesty and motives.
One must presume that for 20 years you have had no trouble,?

There are more passports lost/stolen on the streets by careless tourists and by "break ins," than any hotel losing your documents.
The people who work behind the reception not only deal with your passport, but a considerable amount of currency as well...including having a duplicate key to your room.
If you walk around not trusting anyone, then not only had you better stop going on holiday, but be the first in the queue for ID cards.
But, I guess you`ll have serious doubts about them as well....and that definately is another story.
Hotels don`t pluck people off the streets to become a receptionist, they are vetted and a Hotels reputation is on the line here.
Think about the millions of passports that are held overnight in Benidorm alone, and you worry over ID theft or them losing the passport, yet, you are quite willing to trust them with every other aspect of your stay in their hotel.

They keep it for your convenience only and for no other reason, after a long journey the last thing you want to do is queue.
The National Police of Spain require the details because they want to know who is coming into the country.....they only need the details of one passport, because the hotel has the list of who is occupying the room.

SanJi x

.

Well, I only hope that I`m not behind you in the queue

I'm with sanji on this one !!
If anyone intends to dig in their heels at reception and discuss the pros and cons of surrendering their passport(s), could they please post in a separate thread the details of their intended hotel and the date and time of their expected arrival. That way the rest of us will have the opportunity to switch hotels and avoid the queues !!