i started going on all incs a few years ago after finding a good price for an all inc 1 year and decided to try it, we find it saves us loads of money, mainly due to having children, if a drink gets knocked over, gets warm, has a fly land in it etc then you just get another, we are looking for a hotel at the moment for oct to olu deniz area the prices im getting for 3 of us are approx

bb around £100 for a week 2-3 star

all inclusive £350 for a week 4 star,( this is mid price as have been offered one for 296 and 1 for 430)

so thats costing 250 a week more around 35 a day, theres no way i could feed 3 of us eating out lunch, evening meals ,ice creams, drinks all day and night for 11.66 each, and the hotel is higher star rating and has more entertainment kids inc kids clubs etc, 1 of the all incs also has a private beach area, so as far as im concerned i will definately go all incs in oct, we can eat out a few times as im still getting my monies worth,
when the children stop coming with us then we will probably not go all incs. we are going to turkey next week and staying in our own apt for the first time and i bet i spend loads eating out , will be interesting to see, its booked up in oct so ive got to stay in a hotel

Andrew,if spain hadn't become so expensive then maybe i could afford to go self catering..as it is it is more expensive in majorca ibiza ect than it is in london,where im from..nicole

i went AI for the first time in 2004 to Bulgaria (waste of time as it was so cheap to eat out) but i did like the security of knowing no matter what you have all your drinks and food. we always go out of the resort and eat in local cafes and bars regardless, i don't go on holiday to be stuck in a hotel 24/7.

my kids loved it that i didn't moan at them when they wanted pop/ice cream and they could have what they wanted to eat.

we are going AI this year to fuerteventura and i can't wait! i would recommend it to anyone that has kids, but don't let it stop you from discovering the resort you are staying in.

last year was the first time we tried AI.

personally, i dont like it, as i like to try different places each night, BUT with 2 teenagers, it was so much easier, and cheaper!

this year, we are going AI again to fuerteventura, but we will try differnt places to eat, i just could not stay in a hotel 24/7!!!!!!!!!!

its the drink that seems to make the holiday so expensive, and no, i dont drink alot, but when its hot, its a must.

when we went to tenerife a couple of years back, a glass of coke was 2 euros...............this went up to 4 euros on our second week, which was a school holiday. its not only the tour opeators that inflate prices during school holiday.

Same here K&R..i would prefer self catering but not only is it so expensive ,my kids who are 7 & 10 dont want to leave the complex because of all the friends they have made and as any parent will tell you..if the kids are happy then so are the parents...nicole

I have found this thread really useful as my friend and I are going off for a girls holiday with her daughter and a friend in February and are currently debating AI or SC.

I am keen to go AI as it sounds very easy and as if it will fit in to my holiday plans well (book, swimming pool, sunbed). SC is initially cheaper, but we have costed the same destination at only £100 more each for 7 days. We would easily spend just that on meals out whilst we are there - so overall there would be a saving.... Also, its a chillout holiday for us girls with the husbands at home, so no cooking, cleaning etc would be perfect for us.

Seems like AI is winning our argument at the moment.

The important thing with AI is the quality. Do the research before booking to make sure that the food is edible, the choice is suitable etc,etc.
We have only ever used 4 & 5 star and have been lucky as eating off site has been an option not a requirement!
Normally the "free" drinks are "local" or limited which is important to some people, but for those of us who don't worry about specific drinks or brands, this is hardly ever a problem. If one cocktail is not right, there is always another.
research will highlight if this is an issue at the hotel you are thinking of.

Me personally, we only ever go AI with the children as it does work out so much cheaper. If the kids want a drink they go and get one. If they want an ice cream or something to eat they go and get something. If they decide at meal times they dont like something then they can try something else. I do tell them to try a little first, then if they like it they go and get some more, if they dont then they can try something else. We have never encountered any problems going AI and there is always so much to choose from. We simply prefer it as we work hard all year and look forward to a 2 week break just to relax and chill out. You also have the advantages of kids clubs and entertainment going on all day and night. At least you dont have to bother going out and finding somewhere to eat twice aday. I am a fussy eater and I dont drink, but I always find something to eat and usually stick to water or diet coke. Just because your AI you dont have to over indulge like you see some people doing, or piling their plates so high and then deciding they cant eat it and then walk away and leave it , that is annoying. We have done half board before without the kids but it does work out dearer as you still have to pay at dinner time for your drinks and soft drinks tend to be twice as dear as alcohol.Friends of ours go SC every year to Greece in an apartment. They spend double what we pay for a package deal and have to go out every day and night to eat and drink. This causes a problem as if your not close to town and have to rely on taxis and buses then again its more expense every day. I would personally recommend AI especially with children.

Forgot to say, just because your AI you dont have to stay in the complex 24/7. We do like to go out and about after dinner in the evenings when its abit cooler and have a wonder into town. Then we walk back and have a few drinks before going to bed. We also like to see abit of the island we are visiting and usually do a few trips but other than that we are quite happy just chilling out by the pool.

I would add that the first few days people do tend to go a little OTT with the food/drink but then everyone finds how much they need (normally same as back home).
Definately a win win situation with kids as they love to go up & order soft drinks & ice creams.
As others stated its very hard having located a nice restaurant & ordered the food only to find the kids dont like it
Also having been ripped off on under occupancy on self catering (aparthotels were my fav) we found it much much cheaper going AI.
I dont like seeing people waste food but it will always happen wherever you go.
Always go 4/5 star & never scrimp on a holiday has always been my motto as having worked hard all year i dont want to be dissapointed.

Whatever any of you newbies to AI decide i hope we have all given some good info

All-Inclusive has certainly left it's mark in certain areas of Greece, where a number of tourist resorts are starting to look like virtual ghost towns. The dual tactic employed by certain tour operators does the most damge; open an All-Inc some distance outside a well known tourist area, cash in by using the name of that well known village, stop supporting local businesses by not using their accommodation.

It's not All-Inclusive itself that is causing a problem, but the over proliferation of AI, virtually to the exclusion of everything else.

The North of Kos is a fair example, during June in Tingaki I spoke to around a hundred or so local business people who were not relishing the prospect of yet another AI on their doorstep.

In the north of Corfu look at Acharavi, Almyros, Ipsos, Kassipoi, all of this places looking decidedly thin on tourists. Yes fortuantely some AI customers do visit the local towns and they are most welcome, but the numbers are very low and the vast bulk of AI customers (95% +) do not visit businesses in the local villages.

So concerned were the local people in Corfu about the arrival of another new AI, that they had it stopped legally, after certain irregularities were found in the building permission. It transpired that those who were trying to construct the resort had building permission for a 100 bed hotel, when in fact they were aiming to build a 600 bed resort.

Whilst AI has a place within tourism it shouldn't be allowed to predominate, to the extent of damaging existing businesses and effectively reducing customer choice.

Where is the documented evidence that 95% of people who visit AI resorts do not leave the complex to visit local businesses and villages?

Where is the documented evidence that 95% of people who visit AI resorts do not leave the complex to visit local businesses and villages?

** Oh dear typical cheap shot **

Where is the documented evidence of the reverse being true?

Amazing that nobody elese is expected to provide "documented evidence" to support their views, but when they don't concur with your own thoughts all manner of additonal evidence is apparently required.

There is probably no documented evidence ( that I am aware of ) to support either view, do you have any?

The evidence I have is the evidence of my own eyes, that which I have seen myself, in the locations I have indicated, don't believe me?
Go there and see for yourself.

Note that I didn't claim this was true for every All-Inclusives because I do not claim to know about all of them, but I do have experience of the situation in the North of Corfu and Kos, the 2 areas I was specifically writing about.

By nature of my work I am in either location numerous times a year and when I am not there I am in contact with those that live and work there.

Of course if there was no issue with All-Inclusives in the north of Corfu, the local people would have welcomed one of the UK's largest tour operators with open arms rather than sending them packing.

I didn't mean it as a cheap shot, I was just interested. I have only been to two AI's myself, and can also only comment from what I observed as well.

It just didn't seem to me that 95% of people were on the complexes most of the time although we were out and about quite a bit.

One was in Greece although not Corfu and there were a fair amount of Greeks staying in it, probably about 20% (but I have no hard evidence once again it was just what I saw/felt). I was quite suprised really but it implied to me they didn't have a problem with it. So I then wasn't suprised to see Turkish people in the one this year.

OK ** cheap shot comment rescinded **

I do think the issue is area specific, and in my mind is not merely about All-inclusives, but the concentration of these kind of resorts.

The north of Corfu has had All-Inc's for years, mainly attracting German Clientel, and it has to be said that these were generally more upmarket than the type that is now appearing.

The problem, as I see it, right now in corfu is that they have hit over saturation, and the All-Inc's are competing with the more traditonal privately operated accommodation, most of which now have no tour operator representation as the TO's seem to lose interest in the local towns and villages on a year by year basis.

The other issue which is specific to many Greek islands is that the tour operators control all the flight slots, so even if a local accommodation owner can book his apartments he still sruggles due to the cost of flights, which are high compared to many other countries near by.

I've no doubt that you will find Greeks holidaying in AI in Crete etc, but they will not be the business owners struggling against the influx of AI in resorts in Corfu or Kos.

In this area of Greece it is almost as though the tour operators have found a magic formula and everything has to conform to it, rather than offer a variety of different types of holiday to attract a varied selection of people.

As if to add insult to injury, last year in Corfu a new privately owned AI opened and hardly employed any local staff at all, to further lower their costs they almost exclusively employed low pay rate foreign workers.

To speak for a moment about figures, last year the Greek Office of tourism patted itself on the back announcing increases in tourism all over Greece. But when talking to bar & accommodation owners in corfu, they have only seen their bussiness decline year upon year, so where did the "missing people" go?

Two places; Cruises ships, where they arrive at the airport and board a ship never to return and AI, where you may see the people in the towns if you are lucky.

At the risk of going off-topic. I can't understand why the Greek government don't intervene and control the amount of these resorts if it is having such a devastating effect on local people's livelihoods, or at least put in proviso's that local staff are employed on acceptable terms and conditions.

Presumably the introduction of the Euro and the increase in AI resorts is not a coincidence, with eating out being more expensive than in the days of the Dracma, I would imagine the more down market AI's you refer to are in a better position to flourish.

I spent my honeymoon in Tingaki in 1983. One B&B hotel, 6 tavernas and the beach so you can imagine I followed the KABC debate with a huge amount of interest. I stayed in a place called Liapades in Corfu the year after, I can't imagine anyone building an AI there due to the terraine.

It's interesting what you say about the Tour Op's reps losing interest. The reps in Turkey were very keen to get us to go out and about and explore. Not just on their trips, but on local buses etc however last year in Crete there wasn't the same push in that direction. (Might just have had a good rep this year tho!).

Hi Net detective
Thanks for your opinion, but in essence AI hotels could be the future. Years ago when they started, I was one of them holidaymakers who said 'no chance, I'm not going to a place which could be full of drunks and rowdy people' I have to accept this is not the case.
You book in a high star AI and you can guarantee to have a fantastic holiday, with no problems.
It is tragic if private businesses seem to struggle with AI on their doorstep, but this is across Europe and other destinations.

Look at the Caribbean where deprivation is ripe on the outskirts, its the holidaymakers that fuel income into their society. In the main the hotels are AI.

This is going to be the future (in my humble opinion) it suits large families as they have paid up front and do not have to worry about not having enough spending money with them.

To be fair when my children were young we never went on AI holidays as they were very few and far between.

Now it is just hubby and I and 17 year old, we have sampled AI, again high rated ones but holdiaymakers do go around and sample bars in the named resorts, I accept what you are saying and appreciate the impact on small businesses, but surely tourism must be contributing to something albeit AI to self catering.

kind regards

Kazee

The key issue is that what is right for one are isn't neccessarily right for another, that equally applies to people as it does to holiday destinations.

AI may well suit destinations such as the Caribbean and for very good reasons, it basically suits many locations where there is no existing tourist infastructure and high local unemployment and where there may also be issues regarding safety etc.

In Greece ( and many other parts of Europe ) the situation is very different, there is an established tourist infastructure and no issues regarding safety & low unemployment.

So why does there have to be AI and nothing else?
Why must there by a reduction of consumer choice?
Why does AI have to be " the future" - largely because certain tour operators know it makes tham a pot of money and little else really.

AI generally caters for a narrow mix of people, these are largely families with children, yes I know that you do get some couples, and some older people, but the target market is families with children, what is everybody else, who don't want AI, supposed to do?

Perhaps, as in the Greek example, some people want a more authentic holiday experience, living in a real greek village, with real Greek people, why should they not be allowed to do this?

So in the areas that I am familiar with AI contributes little to the local economy, jobs are largley at the expense of existing local jobs in the family businesses that are having to give up. So a job in an AI is better than owning you own business, or being employed in a family business?

What happens a few years down the line when the AI has made enough cash and decides to move on, you then have a community with little in the way of tourist income and few jobs, all because the local community were forced to put all their eggs in one basket.

The first people to make a profit from tourism should be those that live in that community, after all they have to put up with the consequences on a day to day basis. This is all too plain in Almiros Northern Corfu, outside their local AI the Blue flag beach is dirty & strewn with rubbish, quad bikes race through a small residential village and the locals have to tolerate the noise generated from the AI's entertainment 7 nights a week 6 months a year, as if it were in their own houses.

In Greece in particular, under the existing model there is a free market where people can spend there money ( or not ) as and where they please, benefitting the community in general. Under a model where you have AI and nothing else it is the local operator and the foreign tour operator that make all the money and the local community sees little of it.

Surely "the future" is one where you have a mixture of both, where one isn't allowed to dominate the other, which attracts a wider mix of people, which in turn fuels the local economy.

In this model when the AI leaves town, as it will eventually, the local community still has a tourist infrastructure to fall back on and less reliance on one source of income, a far healthier economic model.

t the risk of going off-topic. I can't understand why the Greek government don't intervene and control the amount of these resorts if it is having such a devastating effect on local people's livelihoods, or at least put in proviso's that local staff are employed on acceptable terms and conditions.

Indeed, the Greek government has a major part to play in this, at the moment they are patting themselves on the back as tourist numbers continue to rise, but so far fail to appreciate that tourist income is falling. They also have a key role in trying to get a cut price flight operator into the islands, much of this may be controlled by things such as high landing fees at Greek airports, but this is unknown ( to me at least ).

Presumably the introduction of the Euro and the increase in AI resorts is not a coincidence, with eating out being more expensive than in the days of the Dracma, I would imagine the more down market AI's you refer to are in a better position to flourish.

Alot of people blame the Euro for price increases, and it did to a small extent, but what has to be appreciated is that prices rise everywhere, there is sometimes an idea for some reason that prices in holiday destinations should never rise, and should always be significantly less than Britain.

Greece is growing into an ever more sophisticated country, Greek kids want far more than their parents had, mobile phones, designer clothes etc - who is to deny them these things?

Yes the Euro pushed up prices a small amount, but I have to say I didn't notice a huge price hike when the Euro came in. However, I do appreciate that I can no longer enjoy a 3 course set meal at a "Greek night" for £2 a head as I did 20 years ago.

Joining the EU has also pushed up prices, as there is more legislation to comply with. more standards to meet. When I first visited Greece many considered it to be the nearest thing to a third world country, it wasn't but things have changed in the intervening years. Haven't prices risen in the UK in the last 20 years, and I would think by a larger margin than the have in some other countries too?

It is therefore no surprise that tour operators introduce more & more distant destinations to their itinary, where local prices are lower.

I spent my honeymoon in Tingaki in 1983. Shocked One B&B hotel, 6 tavernas and the beach so you can imagine I followed the KABC debate with a huge amount of interest. I stayed in a place called Liapades in Corfu the year after, I can't imagine anyone building an AI there due to the terraine.

There is a perfect solution to that, where an all inclusive cannot be built the tour operator will force the existing hotels to go all inclusive in order to stay on the tour operator's books. The fee will be small, unbelievably small for what they are expected to provide. Tour operators have always got away with paying very little for accommodation, in Corfu this can be as little as 5 euro per night per head for self catering. As for AI I have spoken to Hotel mangers in Kos who get 17 Euro per head per night for AI.

If you want to see an example of an AI built on difficult terrain, have a look here:

http://kefalonia.smugmug.com/gallery/482397/1/63756991

Hanging on to the edge of a cliff is an AI built this year, it isn't open and has been abandoned by the tour operator that commisioned it, due to the fact that it started to subside. Nobody knows what will become of it, the building could sit as a part built ghost town for years to come until the bulldozers arrive.

It's interesting what you say about the Tour Op's reps losing interest. The reps in Turkey were very keen to get us to go out and about and explore. Not just on their trips, but on local buses etc however last year in Crete there wasn't the same push in that direction. (Might just have had a good rep this year tho!).

No it's the fact that the tour reps get paid commison on trips they sell, by losing interest I mean that the tour operators are booking less & less private accommodation in resorts.

The reps or course have a vested interest in making sure that their customer's holidays go well, their jobs depend on it after all, particularly as the number of reps in resorts is being massively scaled down by some tour operators. Generally (with some notable exceptions) most tour reps I have met are a pretty keen bunch, they do the job because they enjoy it and see it as an escape form the rat race back home.

Whilst my tone may sound anti tour operator it isn't, I travelled to Kos this year with Olympic Holidays, and I have to say it was great in every respect. Olympic still seem to be supporting local accommodation owners in the area despite all Inclusives appearing on virtually any patch of bare land.