fwh

It is nine months. I have just renewed my sons passport due to the six month rule. He only had two months left on his old one but that has been added on. On receipt of his old passport: a couple of days before he received his new one, there was a slip enclosed that stated they would add upto nine months onto a new ten year passport if it was renewed that much before expiry.

Rgds Jackie

To be honest when I book some where I tend to do my homework. I read about entering country and rules and regulations. It is up to the individual to check and ensure all travel documents etc are all valid for that certain country.

I do appreciate some people get caught out however we all learn by our mistakes and everyone elses.

I would agree with Pink Butterfly. While you would expect to be at least reminded to have a valid passport (including sufficient unexpired time) by your travel agent, a large number of holidaymakers now book holidays themselves so would not be reminded as such.

We have all the information we need at our fingertips and must take some personal responsibilty to ensure we have all the correct documentation when we travel. I sympathise with the originator of this post and am glad she was able to get new passports in time.

It doesn't take much to look at the expiry time on your passport each time you return from holiday to see if it will still be valid next time you expect to travel.

I would agree with Pink Butterfly. While you would expect to be at least reminded to have a valid passport (including sufficient unexpired time) by your travel agent, a large number of holidaymakers now book holidays themselves so would not be reminded as such.

We have all the information we need at our fingertips and must take some personal responsibilty to ensure we have all the correct documentation when we travel. I sympathise with the originator of this post and am glad she was able to get new passports in time

Whether a holiday is booked DIY, with the TO direct or through a Travel Agency there still is a problem in my opinion. Take Barbados for example. Whilst there is no requirement as far as immigration over there is concerned to have any expiry on your passport beyond the intented stay, airlines might have a different rule.

One such airline, for example, is Virgin Atlantic. As fas as I can see the Virgin Atlantic website does not state a minimum expiry date beyond the return travel date, and in fact it links to the following (relevant to Barbados):

Click here

Yet, when I booked through my travel agent (see earlier post) they stipulated that my passport needed to be valid for 6 months beyond the intended return date. I'm going to Barbados and flying Virgin Atlantic.

Now what would happen if I read this post 2 days before I was travelling? Panic! Would I have to postpone my holiday? Would I have to get an emergency passport? Would I be able to travel?

In my opinion this whole scenario is one sorry mess and the sooner the travel industry gets it sorted the better.

Mark (with mod hat off )

In my opinion this whole scenario is one sorry mess and the sooner the travel industry gets it sorted the better.

I really cannot see what the problem is here - it's not a sorry mess and it isn't the responsibility of the travel industry to get it sorted. As far as I'm concerned it's a common sense issue - it's never a good idea to get close to the wire with anything and anyone who does has to take responsibility for it. As travellers we need to develop a bit of good old self-reliance and stop always assuming that it's someone elses responsibility to tell us what we need to do.

The simplest and easiest solution to all this is to renew one's passport between 6 and 9 months before it expires. As long as one does this there simply isn't a problem. And for families, doing this in rotation can actually be a good way of spreading the cost - Mum and Dad one month, kids the next.

I for one wouldn't have wanted to be caught up in the current crisis in the Lebanon with a passport that didn't have at least 6 months still to run on it. Who could have predicted last month that this month the Royal Navy would be evacuating UK citizens and that getting to safety could depend on having an up-to-date UK passport? The mind boggles at what could have happened to anybody whose passport was due to run out the day after they should have flown home which just happened to be the day that the airports shut down.

SM

Hi SM ... with respect I think it is a mess, in the sense that the Foreign Office, various Embassies and the travel industry are all singing from different hymn sheets.

I agree with you that it may not be wise to get too close to the wire as far as passport expiry is concerned. But what is too close - 2 days or 6 months ?

You have highlighted the Lebanon situation and the difficulties some might experience if their passports expire a day or two after they were due to fly home.

But others might experience difficulties if their passports are due to expire 5 months and 2 weeks after they are due to fly home, because some tour operators specify a minimum 6 month passport validity period, which may contradict legal immigration/entry requirements for the countries concerned, which the passport holder has already verified with the Foreign Office and relevant foreign Embassy.

It may not be the sole responsibility of the travel industry to get this sorted out, but if they want to work from an entirely different set of rules, perhaps there is an onus on them to liaise with the Foreign Office and the Passport Agency so that a standard policy can be introduced whereby passport holders are advised to renew passports 6-9 months before expiry, irrespective of the immigration requirements of the country which they are proposing to visit. Failing that, the travel industry needs to relax its rules and allow discretion in cases where travellers are visiting countries with no minimum passport validity requirement.

Just now it seems ridiculous to me that someone with less than 6 months remaining on their passport could be denied boarding by a tour operator or airline on a flight to Spain, even although the Foreign Office and Spanish Embassy both insist that the passport needs to be valid only for the intended duration of stay in Spain.

David

David

That is exactly what I was on about in my post. My son travels to Crete on 11.8.06 for two weeks. His passport was due to run out 16th October 2006 but even though there are no immigration/entry requirements his TO told him he had to have 6 months remaining on his return. Hence it has just cost him £51 to renew his passport which he had not budgeted for.

I have to agree with you David, the TO's need to sort this problem whereby they are giving people the wrong advice regarding the six month requirement. Supposing you booked a last minute deal; say to go within a week and although your passport is valid for the country you are going to( even though it does not have the six months on your return), the TO then says no you can't go because WE require six months validity. What's going on

TO's sort it out

Regards Jackie

Hi Jackie ... yes, the inconsistency amongst the travel trade certanly makes life very difficult for us holidaymakers.

Returning to the example of Spain again, let's assume I was shopping around for a last minute break to the Costa Blanca, with only five months validity remaining on my passport.

I might find a good deal through one agent or tour operator and when I ask if my passport is okay, they could quite correctly tell me that yes, the Foreign Office and the Spanish Embassy both confirm that passports need to be valid only for the intended duration of your stay in Spain.

I then might see the identical holiday on offer £100 cheaper at the agent or tour operator across the road. I probably wouldn't ask them about passport validity, as the first operator had already checked and confirmed official Foreign Office and Spanish Embassy policy for me. I could then book that holiday with the second company, totally unaware of the fact that they operate to a different set of rules which conflict with Foreign Office and Spanish Embassy advice. But because I have a passport valid for 5 months which is acceptable to Spanish immigration, but not valid for 6 months which that particular agent or operator requires, I could be left with a last minute bargain which turns out to be worthless.

We need companies within the travel industry to be consistent not just with each other, but with the Foreign Office and with the immigration rules of the countries which their clients are visiting.

David

Fully agree David but where can you get the info from the tour ops my wife checked as a trial 2no different travel agents for a thomson holiday as was given 2no different replys as to passport rules?????.Should it be printed somewhere ?????

Hi qatarman ... the problem is that some travel agents may be referring to official immigration/entry requirements for the country that you are visiting, while others may be referring to their own company policy or that of the tour operator which they are booking with on your behalf, irrespective of immigration requirements for the country you are visiting.

The Foreign Office and individual Embassy websites are usually a good source of accurate information on the subject. But not so good if the agent or tour operator you are using chooses to ignore that official policy, and implement their own rules instead.

That's why we need consistency throughout the travel industry, in consultation with the Foreign Office and foreign Embassies.

David

This all boils down to ensuring that you read and check the terms and conditions of the contract you are entering into. These vary between operators around all sorts of areas and passport validity is just one. I can't decide whether I'll be irritated or amused the next time I'm in an EasyJet or Ryannair queue for one of my regular flights between Edinburgh and various destiniations in England behind someone who, like me, doesn't have a driving licence and tries to argue that the check-in clerk has no right to ask them for their passport because the Foreign Office says they don't need a passport to travel within the UK :-)

Have a go at the TOs and carriers if they haven't made the condition that you must have 6 months to run on your passport transparent, but not for having the condition in the first place. Easyjet closes their check-in later than some companies but earlier than BA for domestic flights. We don't expect them to all have identical times and so we make sure we check when a particular carrier closes flights and I really can't see why this issue is any different. As with all these things the onus is on us to check and not assume that the conditions applied by one TO or carrier will be the same as another.

SM

Hi SM ... my concern is not so much about their right to implement passport validity requirements if they wish, it is about consistency, transparency and accuracy. Some will insist that their company policy reflects actual immigration requirements and Foreign Office advice, which clearly isn't the case, and they do not appear to have the discretion to waive that policy when it can be proved beyond doubt that a passport is perfectly valid for entry to and departure from a specific country.

David

As I said in my earlier post the tour ops should put their policy on passports into the brochure with all thier other dos and donts

Going back to the example I linked to in my very first reply in this topic, the topic poster who had to change holidays because (as quoted):

"While waiting I sat and read through the booklet Virgin had sent with the tickets. I then stumbled upon a paragraph stating that passports needed to be valid for 90 days after the date of departure - I thought everything was OK but checked only to find that my two kids' passports only had 75 days remaining."

From the Virgin Holidays T&C of booking (click here):

All passport, visa, travel insurance and health certificate requirements are your responsibility and Virgin Holidays accept no responsibility for any delay or expense incurred through any irregularity in your documents. You are advised to contct us for exact details

It clearly states nowhere about a passport having to be valid beyond the travel dates.

A good example where it is a sorry inconsistent mess. A leaflet stating one thing and the T&C's stating another thing.

At the time of booking a holiday you are advised to establish the immigration requirements (no expiry date needed), the T&C's don't say anything about the 90 day expiry date yet when the tickets arrive there is leaflet stating 90 days.

Perhaps as has been suggested a clear line in the T&C's stating 90 days expiry date beyond the intended retun date might solve this confusion.

Mark

To get some idea of what sort of information is being handed out by the travel industry, I decided to make some enquiries while I was in town this afternoon, to see whether counter staff are quoting company policy, immigration policy, or something else.

I asked specifically about Spain (which has no minimum passport validity requirement) and Turkey (which has a 6 month minimum passport validity requirement). Based on what members have been telling us in various threads, I expected to be given conflicting information depending on which companies I asked and so in the interests of consistency on my part, I made the same enquiry with three branches of the same company:

"I am thinking about a holiday to either Spain or Turkey at the end of August, but my passport expires in September. Will that be okay ?"

Shop number one said no. For Spain or Turkey, passports need to be valid for 6 months from 'date of departure'. I expressed surprise and asked if this was some new policy, to which the girl gave the remarkable explanation that it happens with all countries when they join the Euro. (When did Turkey join the Euro ???). I asked whether if I avoided Spain, Turkey or any other Euro-currency countries and perhaps considered the US instead, would my passport be okay ? Her reply again was no, because the US had adopted similar passport rules following 9/11.
Wrong answer !!

Shop number two said no. The girl explained that for those countries, passports need to be valid for 3 months beyond the 'date of return' to the UK. One of her colleagues immediately interrupted to contradict this, saying that it used to be 3 months but it had now been extended to 90 days. (Work that one out if you can !!).
Another wrong answer.

Shop number three said no. To visit any country, passports need to be valid for 6 months from the 'date of issue'. I pointed out that UK passports were generally valid for 10 years from date of issue. This completely baffled her and she said in that case my passport might be okay, but that I should perhaps double check with the Post Office. She did offer to sell me some currency, but I said that I would buy it at the Post Office when checking my passport !!
Yet another wrong answer !!

If I had sat down with them and checked availability, perhaps even making a booking, they may possibly have come up with the right information eventually, or asked standard questions which may have suggested to them that my passport was okay for Spain but not for Greece, or perhaps neither if their company policy dictates otherwise. But in response to fairly straight forward passport enquiries, the consistency and accuracy of their information was very sadly lacking and it just highlights to me how difficult and confusing it must be for some of our members when planning a holiday, to be given some information by their travel agent or tour operator which completely contradicts what they are told at Holidaytruths, or by the Foreign Office or foreign Embassy concerned.

If companies must implement their own passport validity rules which clearly conflict with immigration requirements for certain countries, then surely they should be making all front line staff aware of those rules so that they can provide adequate and sensible explanations as to why they are in place ?

David

David, I thought Sanji was HT's only roving 'Undercover Reporter'....did you have a hidden camera about your person?

But nice piece of detective work anyway David. Just goes to show, does'nt it.

David HT Mod..from Travel Agent Employee wrote:

it used to be three months but it had now been extended to ninety days

I'm not that good at maths, never have been, but one month = 31 days X three = 93 days, unless one or all three months have only 30 days? ........Nope, still can't add that one up.

SM is correct. We should all take responsibilty to ensure our passports are renewed when they have 6-9 months left until they expire. If various TO's/agencies/airlines/travel companies give differing or inaccurate information then this should sound alarm bells. Why should we trust those in the travel industry anymore than those in say replacement kitchens or double glazing. Do we believe evrything they tell us?

If we all renewed our passports in time (and the unexpired nine months is not lost) there would be no problem. I agree that the simple solution is to be reminded by the passport agency but how many people move home/emigrate/marry/die even in 10 years? And how many of us would actually remember to tell the passport agency that we have moved?

the solution is in our own hands.

On the subject of renewing passports early, it was announced today that passport fees will rise by 29% in October. So for anyone with a passport due to expire within the next 9 months, there are positive advantages to renewing now to avoid those increases and also have the unexpired period of the current passport transferred to the new document. Click here for more details of passport fee increases.

David

David`s `Roger Cook` report just highlights the general abysmal standards of knowledge prevelant in the High street travel agents. Most of the staff just dont have a clue about much, which I have proved in the past by making various enquiries myself. Its not really suprising that so many people have adverse travel experiences.
The decline in package tours is accelerating yet the trade just doesnt seem to get the message...rather sad really..