'When it comes to Lagrange Holidays, be careful that they don't send you to a camp that looks like a prison!!'
In England we paid for a holiday apartment in Port Camargue in the South of France.
We looked at the pictures given in their brochure, please see below, and published on the website- (although now the pretty picture of the accommodation block has now been removed).
When we requested for further information on the access to the sea, the quietness of the location and the access to our rooms we received pretty muddled answers. At the time I thought it was down to mis-communication/intepretation because although the Lady on the other end of the phone spoke good English, she was French.
Unfortunately we now know that the staff were actually very good at not giving away too many home truths about the place.
When arriving at the Resitel, Port Camargue, owned by LaGrange, we were expecting a comfortable, quiet apartment near the sea. We thought we were getting a 3 star apartment but have subsequently been told that the things we thought were stars were actually dots. Apparently 3 dots means it is comfortable and I am sure it would rate as comfortable for prisoners. It certainly doers not mean 3 star accommodation though. More fool me for not realising that LAGRANGE had cunningly invented their own system of grading that looked remarkably like what everyone else uses but is certainly not up to the same standards. I wonder what a single dot accommodation would be like?
With a baby and a 3 year old we were expecting to drive up to the apartment and unload all our bags. However, on arrival, we were told to unload all our things onto a trolley, for which we had to pay, and wheel our belongings through 50 metres of corridors of uneven concrete slabs. At 7.30pm with 2 young children, there was little alternative.
We wheeled through the dingy corridor and came across our apartment. See photo below. You can notice straight away the bars on the window and the heavy nature of the door.(I am sure this wasn't an old prison camp but I may be wrong!) Inside the apartment was OK. Basic and certainly not spacious but hey this is 3 dots not 3 stars.
Outside the front of the apartment was pretty scrubby and within 20 metres, were some OK looking tennis courts and just beyond those was a walkway boulevard that lead from one part of the town to another. We had been told there was a short path to the sea, what we hadn't expected was to cross a busy pedestrian boulevard to get there. This boulevard was full of people night and day which was great if you wanted to watch the world go by from outside your apartment but not so good if you wanting to settle your children. We were soon to experience the usefulness of this 'Path Way' when at 10pm a drunk resident fell onto our front lawn, some 4 feet from the bedroom where my son was sleeping. The apartment that we had been put in was right next to the corridor, which conveniently lead to the path leading to all the bars and restaurants. This access was the most convenient for at least 50% of the residents.
So we were in a 1 star apartment at the end of a dingy corridor, next to the corridor, which lead to the `pedestrian boulevard' not the 3 star apartment in quiet surrounds we had been expecting.
We got the basics from the car, put the kids to bed and made up our minds to leave early in the morning.
In the morning we had breakfast in the restaurant, and like the diner the night before it was a pretty low standard affaire. The staff were friendly but the food lousy. In fact the food was of such a poor quality that I couldn't believe we were in France. Were we not in the Gastronomic capitol of the World, surely no French chef would produce this??
When we announced to the reception manager in the morning, that we were leaving she was most understanding saying that quite a few English people had complained because they thought they were coming to a 3 star premises and she agreed this, the Resitel, Port Camargue, certainly was not 3 stars. She didn't mention anything about the 3 dots I had to wait for my return to England to find this out.
We moved to a local apartment that evening and for the rest of our holiday!
When we returned we took up our grievances with Lagrange. After much deliberation (5weeks) they decided they did not have a case to answer for misrepresentation.
That 3 dots were 3 dots and not 3 stars.
That they never promised quiet accommodation but said they would do their best (We now know their best isn't very good is it!)
That we were told that their was a path and if we couldn't understand that this meant a pedestrian boulevard then we obviously didn't understand their broken English, spoken by the French assistants in Chiswick.
Well, there you go, if you do go on a Lagrange holiday and of course I personally wouldn't recommend it, then get straight answers in writing before you go because at least then when it does turn out to be a let down they can't give you the 'Dots' and 'Path' treatment.
Good Luck and happy Holidays.
Oh and do be careful Lagrange are all over Europe in Summer and Winter Ski resorts!
Lagrange are a French company. Their major clientele are French and whilst they do sell holidays to non-French nationals, their brochures reflect the norms in French tour operator publications; it is quite normal for French (and German) operators to grade their accommodation by criteria other than star quality level. They often refer to facilities available on site, or size of accommodation, and usually there are definitions in the 'small print' area of the brochure.
In the past, I also had a disappointment with a French company (no longer trading!) when I rented a holiday appartment in the La Rochelle area. I learned that the details and criteria of different countries differ from what we consider is normal in the UK, basically because we have had no other experience of booking holidays other than with UK tour operators.
From what you describe, it seems like a typical South of France appartment complex, and unfortunately you were probably misled by your images of France (great gastronomy ... well even France has its disappointments like McDo, Quick and Flunch ...). I agree that as a culture shock, you learned a great deal, but please try not to be offended as I think that it was simply unfortunate that you didn't perhaps have enough experience of French 'norms' (a legal term here) and what seems to be an acceptable form of vacation accommodation for the French. And of course, a holiday is what you make of it - even though you DID have a disappointing experience on arrival.
Please do not blame other countries and cultures (as here in France) for their differences from your standards - constructive criticism is fine - but the onus is on the traveller to make sure that he/she is happy with the product or service before he/she parts with any money.
Too many people criticise other countries' ways and means, when they only know what to expect in the UK. Open-mindedness does help.
Please do not think I'm 'slagging you off' - I only mean to be helpful, having once been in a similar situation, and living with French norms for long enough to know that your situation was not a personal slight, nor a means of annoying the British!
It does not matter where your holiday destination, there is no guarantee that you will like it - hours and hours of research can only tell you what others thought. Read some of the reviews here on HT if you do not believe me.
I have often read on HT people complain about the Germans. My own experience with them has been only positive. Some of my holidays have been enhanced by their presence.
We went to Crete for the first time in May, we found the people and the place so good we have booked to go again next year.
We went to Paphos for the first time in October - we are going back to Nissi Beach next year. We much prefer it.
You do not need to go outside our own country to find that stars can have little relevance to what you get.
fwh
What an excellent post by Alsacienne. Whilst I have some sympathy with davinci I do think that people have expectations based upon their own nationality.
We most heartily agree.
Peter
I think you do need to research places when they are rated so as not to get them confused. We stayed in apartments in Puerto Pollensa last year and they were rated by Keys, they were only 2 Key apartments that we stayed in but the accommodation was of a good standard, the reason they were 2 Key was because there was no entertainment on site or bar/restaurant and the beach was 700m away but we were aware of that before we booked.
Many tour companys use two methods of ranking properies. For example Thomson uses 'T's. Quite often a 4TTTT property is only a 3*** property! Stars seemed to be used for hotels and keys for apartments.
Good travel companies usually give both ratings. i.e. their own (which IMHO are often 'enhanced' a bit) and the rating given in the country the accommodation is in. A decent brochure or web-site should explain all this all in the small print. I guess 'dots' was the one used by Lagrange. It might have been 3 dots but only 1 star/key.
It's a knotty problem and unfortunately you have to be able to read between the lines to make sense of some of these ratings.
You missed the point.
I was neither getting at France nor was I getting at Port Camargue what I was annoyed about mis-representation.
The brochure was sent out by the London office of Lagrange for the English Market so this is meant for English people. Employees of Lagrange working in London should understand that they are working in the English Market and that means they should understand what English people want and most importantly understand that they hate being ripped off or lied to.
France is a beautiful place with fantastic destinations but you always want to know what you are paying for and the job of the Travel Company is to understand your needs and not to lie to you.
When you made your call why assume that it was a language problem on their part? The young lady you spoke with answered your questions. It was you that did not understand her. I have no particular feelings for the French; however I do find your remarks out of order regarding her nationality.
You made a mistake when you made an assumption that dots equated to stars. If you were not sure then you should have made an effort to find out.
It is not unusual to find that cars are not allowed onsite. That often applies in this country. Safety and nuisance value are often quoted.
In warm climates bars on windows and heavy doors - I see no problem there. Security is one explanation; in particular in warm weather you may go out yet leave the window open to allow circulation of air.
You were obviously in a holiday complex. Footpaths are used by everyone. The fact that drunks fell on your lawn is a hazard that you get in such places.
Your complaint about food is an old one. It is a myth that the French are great cooks. You could say much the same about establishments in this country, some with Michelin Stars. My eldest managed one years ago. The food was rubbish and they had Two Stars.
Your problem basically was you were staying at a site that catered for French holidaymakers. Many people come to our country and make the same complaint about the food not being to their liking.
Your comment in your last post is correct when you say you want to know what you are paying for and for them to understand your needs. But you need to ensure that you explain them and not blame others if you do not make them clear.
There was an obvious problem with the way you communicated your needs - You cannot put all the blame on them.
They did not "Lie" to you - That is a word that many apply as an excuse having made a mistake and not wanting to admit they have done so.
fwh
I wish to make it clear as I did after receiving your PM to you that I do not intend to continue correspondence on this situation with you.
Whoooaaa,
I think we have all said what we need to say on this matter.
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