Hi all, first post here with a complaint. Looking for some advice on who to concentrate the complaints on and the likelihood of success, if any more details are needed please let me know. Thanks in advance for any help.
In October last year my sister looked into booking a holiday with Virgin Holidays through Ramsay World Travel(Flights and car hire only villa was booked separately) to Florida for a family group of 14 (10 adults, 3 kids and an infant) and once finding a suitable holiday our deposits were paid in mid December. Our requested itinerary was Aberdeen to Orlando (Via Gatwick) on Saturday 9th October and Orlando to Aberdeen (Via Gatwick) on Saturday 25th October. An invoice was received from Virgin Holidays for the above but due to flight schedules for the Aberdeen to Gatwick flights not being available yet only connecting flights were put onto the invoice as the description.
Fast forward to mid June and a few times in between we had been assured we were booked onto the Aberdeen to Gatwick flights. I asked RWT if the had the booking reference for checking in on-line so we were prepared well in advance of leaving but they told us Virgin did not allow checking in on-line for a group booking! I then sent an e-mail to Virgin themselves and they cam e back with 2 booking codes for our party as it was split in 2 because of the size. When I checked these on-line I noticed that the connecting flights we had were Glasgow to Gatwick and not Aberdeen to Gatwick ! 2 days after I found this out I was able to go to Ramsay World Travel to find out what was happening as we were quite concerned about what connecting flights we were on. Once again RWT assured us we were booked on the Aberdeen flights, we left it at this until Mid July.
My sister was called by RWT then to inform her that we were not in fact booked on the Aberdeen flights as Virgin had somehow booked us onto the Glasgow flights. Virgin were contacted by RWT to try and rectify the situation but due no space on the Aberdeen flights and the high cost of what seats were available, Virgin were unwilling to put us onto these flights and were sticking with the Glasgow ones.
Over the next few weeks after this we were offered a coach to take us to and from Glasgow and Aberdeen for the flights and also accommodation for staying in Glasgow on the Friday night we accepted this but told them that we were still unhappy and would be taking matters further once we were home. Virgin did offer us a full refund of the deposits paid but due to the 3 children going we had to go on the school holidays and even if we did take our money back there would be no chance of getting any other flights on those dates for a similar price at this late date.
I sent an e-mail to any Virgin Holiday e-mail address I could get hold of informing them of how unhappy we were and that further action would be taken and a week or so after that they must've contacted RWT and put us all on Aberdeen to Gatwick flights on the Friday at 5pm, still not ideal as some of us now have to take extra time off work. Also our return flights have been changed to returning to Edinburgh but we still have a wait of 4 hours in Gatwick for this flight then a 3 hour bus journey back to Aberdeen after that. If we were put on our Aberdeen flights as requested it would've been no more than 2 hours in between flights at Gatwick and only 15 minute journeys home from Aberdeen airport.
This is where things stand at the moment, I know this may not be as bad as some people may have experienced but it is still messed up. What I would like to know is who we should be concentrating our complaints on? RWT assure us that they never asked for Glasgow flights but Virgin are saying that it was always Glasgow flights they were asked for so somebody is lying and nobody wants to admit their mistake.
Sorry this post is so long but wanted to put as much detail in as possible.
Any help or advice would be much appreciated.
Kevin
Firstly, it's probably only fair to say that I've used Ramsay's quite a lot in the past (assuming that they are the Dundee/Fife based TA?) and found them reliable and very efficient so I;d be surprised if the error was on their part.
However, I am a little confused about a number of points in your message - could you clarify them?
Assuming that this is referring to a holiday booked for october 2009, then 9th October is actually the Friday and the 25th is the Sunday. Also, the return flights from Orlando with Virgin are overnight flights ie the Friday flights actually arrive early on Saturday morning, the Saturday flights arrive on Sunday morning. Could there have been a similar confusion at the time of booking about the dates of travel? Can you confirm which dates and times you are actually booked on for the Gatwick/Orlando flights as Virgin operate more than one flight a day on this route? I'm assuming that you are booked onto the 13.00 flight because it would be unrealistic to attempt to leave it until the Saturday morning to fly down from Aberdeen and be there in time to make the 11.15 flight.
Virgin does not operate any Aberdeen/Gatwick flights - can you confirm which airline you are booked on for getting down to Gatwick?
This sort of turnaround might be possible if you are able to check baggage right through without collecting it at Gatwick and re-checking in - are you sure that you would have been able to do this? On the Virgin Atlantic website they only seem to offer through bookings from Aberdeen to Miami, not Orlando and it looks as if you can't book through flights from Aberdeen to Orlando in which case 2 hours was never going to be enough in either direction to transit through Gatwick if you have to collect baggage and check-in again.
As you could fly direct to Orlando from Glasgow on Saturday 10 October (depending on seat availablity - I accept that you are a large group) would there be any mileage in trying to get Virgin to transfer you onto that flight for your outbound journey? I realise that you probably booked via Gatwick because the last return flights from Orlando to Glasgow appear to be the 17th but if you could do the flights as Glasgow/Orlando/Gatwick/Aberdeen it would save people having to take an extra day of work on the Friday since it's an early afternoon departure from Glasgow.
SM
However, I am a little confused about a number of points in your message - could you clarify them?
Our requested itinerary was Aberdeen to Orlando (Via Gatwick) on Saturday 9th October and Orlando to Aberdeen (Via Gatwick) on Saturday 25th October.
Assuming that this is referring to a holiday booked for october 2009, then 9th October is actually the Friday and the 25th is the Sunday. Also, the return flights from Orlando with Virgin are overnight flights ie the Friday flights actually arrive early on Saturday morning, the Saturday flights arrive on Sunday morning. Could there have been a similar confusion at the time of booking about the dates of travel? Can you confirm which dates and times you are actually booked on for the Gatwick/Orlando flights as Virgin operate more than one flight a day on this route? I'm assuming that you are booked onto the 13.00 flight because it would be unrealistic to attempt to leave it until the Saturday morning to fly down from Aberdeen and be there in time to make the 11.15 flight.
An invoice was received from Virgin Holidays for the above but due to flight schedules for the Aberdeen to Gatwick flights not being available yet only connecting flights were put onto the invoice as the description.
Virgin does not operate any Aberdeen/Gatwick flights - can you confirm which airline you are booked on for getting down to Gatwick?
If we were put on our Aberdeen flights as requested it would've been no more than 2 hours in between flights at Gatwick and only 15 minute journeys home from Aberdeen airport.
This sort of turnaround might be possible if you are able to check baggage right through without collecting it at Gatwick and re-checking in - are you sure that you would have been able to do this? On the Virgin Atlantic website they only seem to offer through bookings from Aberdeen to Miami, not Orlando and it looks as if you can't book through flights from Aberdeen to Orlando in which case 2 hours was never going to be enough in either direction to transit through Gatwick if you have to collect baggage and check-in again.
As you could fly direct to Orlando from Glasgow on Saturday 10 October (depending on seat availablity - I accept that you are a large group) would there be any mileage in trying to get Virgin to transfer you onto that flight for your outbound journey? I realise that you probably booked via Gatwick because the last return flights from Orlando to Glasgow appear to be the 17th but if you could do the flights as Glasgow/Orlando/Gatwick/Aberdeen it would save people having to take an extra day of work on the Friday since it's an early afternoon departure from Glasgow.
SM
The dates are supposed to be Saturday 10th and Saturday 24th and the flights are VS027 LGW (13:00) to MCO (17:00) and VS016 MCO (19:30) to LGW (07:45).
At present we are flying down with Flybe on the Friday night to Gatwick on BE7295 ABZ (17:05) to LGW (18:45) and returning with BA on Sunday on BA2938 LGW (12:25) to EDI (13:50)
As far as I can tell the flights that we thought we'd have been on were with Flybe BE7291 ABZ (07:00) to LGW (08:45) and returning with BE7292 LGWW (09:10) to ABZ (11:05)
We were told from the very start that if it was all booked through Virgin Holidays we would have a through ticket that meant our luggage was able to be checked all the way. We specifically asked for this as we were worried about the differences in allowances for the connecting flights.
As far as Virgin have told us Glasgow and Manchester were checked for seat availability but we were told there was not enough seats on any of them.
As we have told Ramsay we are resigned to the fact that we won't be getting Aberdeen connecting flights at the times we thought we had booked for, we just want to get as easy a trip as possible now and compensation for the mess that's been made.
At present we are flying down with Flybe on the Friday night to Gatwick on BE7295 ABZ (17:05) to LGW (18:45) and returning with BA on Sunday on BA2938 LGW (12:25) to EDI (13:50)
As far as I can tell the flights that we thought we'd have been on were with Flybe BE7291 ABZ (07:00) to LGW (08:45) and returning with BE7292 LGWW (09:10) to ABZ (11:05)
We were told from the very start that if it was all booked through Virgin Holidays we would have a through ticket that meant our luggage was able to be checked all the way. We specifically asked for this as we were worried about the differences in allowances for the connecting flights.
As far as Virgin have told us Glasgow and Manchester were checked for seat availability but we were told there was not enough seats on any of them.
As we have told Ramsay we are resigned to the fact that we won't be getting Aberdeen connecting flights at the times we thought we had booked for, we just want to get as easy a trip as possible now and compensation for the mess that's been made.
When I checked these on-line I noticed that the connecting flights we had were Glasgow to Gatwick and not Aberdeen to Gatwick ! 2 days after I found this out I was able to go to Ramsay World Travel to find out what was happening as we were quite concerned about what connecting flights we were on. Once again RWT assured us we were booked on the Aberdeen flights, we left it at this until Mid July.
and can RWT confirm they contacted Virgin at that point?
RWT told my sister that they contacted Virgin and were told we were booked on the Aberdeen flights, not 100% sure if RWT have anything written down or saved on their computers to back this up. In the e-mail I sent to Virgin I believe they replied saying "Unfortunately when Ramsay World Travel called to confirm what domestic flights had been booked they spoke to another department who should have passed the call through to the groups department but instead unfortunately commented incorrectly on the group booking."
To be honest, I think that you are now booked on the best outbound flight from Aberdeen. I can't see how FlyBe were ever going to be able to check you and your luggage right through to Orlando from Aberdeen because as far as I know, Virgin and FlyBe aren't partners and 4 hours is very tight for making it through baggage collection, check-in, security and then to your gate at Gatwick on Saturday morning. I regularly transit through Gatwick and would never leave myself that little time - come the end of October you could well have been back on here asking us how to go about claiming compensation because you'd missed your flight to Orlando. This way you don't have any anxieties about the consequences of a delayed flight from Aberdeen, long queues at security etc.
I'm assuming that you live north of Dundee and that this is why you opted for Aberdeen flights rather than from Edinburgh in the first place. It is quite a bummer that you'll have to return via Edinburgh - as you are such a large group and they had already offered you a coach to take you direct from Aberdeen to Glasgow, I'd push for them to make you the same offer from Edinburgh to home if they haven't already done so. However, I can't see how you would ever have made it in time for the 9.10 flight to Aberdeen with FlyBe if you were only due to land at 7.45am. You need to remember that this is the expected time that you'll pull up at the stance and even with luggage being checked through from Orlando and you already having your boarding passes, less than 90 mins to transit through from international arrivals to domestic departures on a Saturday morning at Gatwick is still really pushing it. I would have been surprised if you'd made it. And if you had to collect luggage and new boarding passes then you definitely wouldn't have made it - there is no way you'd have managed to get off the plane, got through immigration, collected your luggage, got through customs (remember just because most of us walk through the Green Channel and don't get stopped, doesn't mean that this time you wouldn't have been one of the unlucky ones that gets pulled over for a case inspection), checked-in, got through security and on to your gate in 1hr 25 mins. Only recently, there was a complaint from someone else on this forum that there TA had only allowed them 90 mins to transit at Heathrow and that this wasn't enough time and they wanted to know how to go about claiming compensation for their missed onward flight.
The good news re the outbound flight is that at Gatwick, Virgin will have their twilight check-in desks open. This means that as soon as you arrive on the Friday evening you will be able to check-in straight away and get rid of your bags (keep your overnight things in hand luggage) and collect your boarding card. That way you can have a relaxing morning at your hotel and just head straight through to security mid/late morning, have a drink and a browse around the shops while waiting for the gate to open and start your holiday.
I can appreciate that you feel that you have been messed around by Virgin but I think that had you been booked onto the original flights that you wanted then you could have ended up having to deal with far bigger problems in the end, especially on the return journey.
SM
I'm assuming that you live north of Dundee and that this is why you opted for Aberdeen flights rather than from Edinburgh in the first place. It is quite a bummer that you'll have to return via Edinburgh - as you are such a large group and they had already offered you a coach to take you direct from Aberdeen to Glasgow, I'd push for them to make you the same offer from Edinburgh to home if they haven't already done so. However, I can't see how you would ever have made it in time for the 9.10 flight to Aberdeen with FlyBe if you were only due to land at 7.45am. You need to remember that this is the expected time that you'll pull up at the stance and even with luggage being checked through from Orlando and you already having your boarding passes, less than 90 mins to transit through from international arrivals to domestic departures on a Saturday morning at Gatwick is still really pushing it. I would have been surprised if you'd made it. And if you had to collect luggage and new boarding passes then you definitely wouldn't have made it - there is no way you'd have managed to get off the plane, got through immigration, collected your luggage, got through customs (remember just because most of us walk through the Green Channel and don't get stopped, doesn't mean that this time you wouldn't have been one of the unlucky ones that gets pulled over for a case inspection), checked-in, got through security and on to your gate in 1hr 25 mins. Only recently, there was a complaint from someone else on this forum that there TA had only allowed them 90 mins to transit at Heathrow and that this wasn't enough time and they wanted to know how to go about claiming compensation for their missed onward flight.
The good news re the outbound flight is that at Gatwick, Virgin will have their twilight check-in desks open. This means that as soon as you arrive on the Friday evening you will be able to check-in straight away and get rid of your bags (keep your overnight things in hand luggage) and collect your boarding card. That way you can have a relaxing morning at your hotel and just head straight through to security mid/late morning, have a drink and a browse around the shops while waiting for the gate to open and start your holiday.
I can appreciate that you feel that you have been messed around by Virgin but I think that had you been booked onto the original flights that you wanted then you could have ended up having to deal with far bigger problems in the end, especially on the return journey.
SM
I have been reading this with interest - we are booked with Virgin holidays for next October flying from Aberdeen to Gatwick then on to St Lucia.
I'm just wondering who it was that told you that you could check in all the way through at Aberdeen? We booked the Aberdeen flights through Virgin as opposed to seperately mainly because if anything changes to our main flight then we'd be covered as it's all one booking. We were told the luggage allowance for Flybe was 20kg and not the same as Virgin and that we would have to check in again when we got to Gatwick but that's not a problem as we are going the day before because I'm paranoid about connecting flights these days.
I've just been to check just now, and the Virgin holidays website states that luggage cannot be checked straight through on domestic flights so really I think like the previous poster has said, you could've had problems with your original flights if they had been booked for you.
V
I'm just wondering who it was that told you that you could check in all the way through at Aberdeen? We booked the Aberdeen flights through Virgin as opposed to seperately mainly because if anything changes to our main flight then we'd be covered as it's all one booking. We were told the luggage allowance for Flybe was 20kg and not the same as Virgin and that we would have to check in again when we got to Gatwick but that's not a problem as we are going the day before because I'm paranoid about connecting flights these days.
I've just been to check just now, and the Virgin holidays website states that luggage cannot be checked straight through on domestic flights so really I think like the previous poster has said, you could've had problems with your original flights if they had been booked for you.
V
A workmate booked with Virgin to go from Aberdeen to Vegas. The ABZ to LGW flight was with FlyBe and their luggage was checked straight through.
I actually called FlyBe to check that this was possible and they confirmed that it was as long as it was all booked on the same ticket. You would also get the higher baggage allowance.
luci
I actually called FlyBe to check that this was possible and they confirmed that it was as long as it was all booked on the same ticket. You would also get the higher baggage allowance.
luci
SMa
I appreciate what you have said about Flybe not being partners with Virgin but we asked RWT when we booked if the luggage issue on different airlines would be a problem and we were told as it was all booked through Virgin Holidays it would be checked all the way through and the allowances would be Virgins 2 pieces & 23kg. Unless RWT were lying to us about this being OK it wouldn't have been an issue.
As for the flights from and to Aberdeen the ones I stated may not have been the ones we should have been on, as there was nothing confirming the flight times giving to RWT from Virgin. All we have is RWT telling us they've booked Aberdeen connecting flights and Virgin saying they were only ever asked for Glasgow connecting flights.
Basically either Virgin or RWT is lying about these connecting flights and i'm looking for advice on weather to take this up with Virgin or with RWT themselves as I believe we should be due some sort of compensation for what we believe we had booked.
Cheers
I appreciate what you have said about Flybe not being partners with Virgin but we asked RWT when we booked if the luggage issue on different airlines would be a problem and we were told as it was all booked through Virgin Holidays it would be checked all the way through and the allowances would be Virgins 2 pieces & 23kg. Unless RWT were lying to us about this being OK it wouldn't have been an issue.
As for the flights from and to Aberdeen the ones I stated may not have been the ones we should have been on, as there was nothing confirming the flight times giving to RWT from Virgin. All we have is RWT telling us they've booked Aberdeen connecting flights and Virgin saying they were only ever asked for Glasgow connecting flights.
Basically either Virgin or RWT is lying about these connecting flights and i'm looking for advice on weather to take this up with Virgin or with RWT themselves as I believe we should be due some sort of compensation for what we believe we had booked.
Cheers
i'm looking for advice on weather to take this up with Virgin or with RWT
You entered into a contract with RWT when you made your booking. Whilst any complaints re your holiday would be the responsibility of Virgin the actual bookings on your behalf were done by RWT.
It would appear that either they made a mistake or Virgin furnished them with the wrong information, either way it is their job to sort it out. They cannot just blame Virgin.
fwh
As fwh it is RWT who should be doing everything to help you, and you should be dealing with them exclusively, and they should be working tirelessly on your behalf to sort things out.
However, do bare in mind the probability that no-one is lying. Virgin could quite easily be messing around RWT. It's probably booked in Virgin's system so RWT can't see the actual flights, so have to go on what they are told.
It sounds to me (*guesswork*) that when you booked, the BE flights were not quite available to be booked (they lag a couple of weeks behind most airlines) but someone at Virgin had a responsibility to book when they came available (which should have been January at the latest). They failed to do this, and they were only triggered to book them in June, by which it was too late and the flights were very full (they are - no chance of getting on the 07:45 flight on 10 Oct, or the 09:10 flight on the 25th).
However, the two later flights on the 25th (14:50 and 19:15) Gatwick to Aberdeen have good availability - can they rebook you onto these?
However, do bare in mind the probability that no-one is lying. Virgin could quite easily be messing around RWT. It's probably booked in Virgin's system so RWT can't see the actual flights, so have to go on what they are told.
It sounds to me (*guesswork*) that when you booked, the BE flights were not quite available to be booked (they lag a couple of weeks behind most airlines) but someone at Virgin had a responsibility to book when they came available (which should have been January at the latest). They failed to do this, and they were only triggered to book them in June, by which it was too late and the flights were very full (they are - no chance of getting on the 07:45 flight on 10 Oct, or the 09:10 flight on the 25th).
However, the two later flights on the 25th (14:50 and 19:15) Gatwick to Aberdeen have good availability - can they rebook you onto these?
I don't believe anyone from RWT is lying to us but it is very frustrating when Virgin won't even admit their mistake either.
When we booked we were told that the connecting flights were out of the date range for booking as you said and someone at Virgin seems to have booked us onto Glasgow flights instead of Aberdeen flights. There have been a few different flights we've put forward to Virgin for getting home from Gatwick but we've been told that they aren't willing to pay the prices for these flights, I believe that the 14:50 flight was one of these.
Thanks to everyone for all the helpful comments and advice, I will post back here anything that comes about from this.
When we booked we were told that the connecting flights were out of the date range for booking as you said and someone at Virgin seems to have booked us onto Glasgow flights instead of Aberdeen flights. There have been a few different flights we've put forward to Virgin for getting home from Gatwick but we've been told that they aren't willing to pay the prices for these flights, I believe that the 14:50 flight was one of these.
Thanks to everyone for all the helpful comments and advice, I will post back here anything that comes about from this.
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