You need to read my post properly, its says I don't think its a total scam...

that means I'm not saying its a total scam !!

got to go will be back shortly...

Cy,

The reason they want us there is not because their countries are attractive to visitors but because they want us to spend money. Yes, we might travel to other countries because we find them attractive and want to visit them but the reason they want us to visit is because we spend money while we are there. If the place is an attractive one to visit it will of course make it easier to attract visitors but they don't want us there just so they can show off how wonderful their country is. In fact one just has to look at the Costas to see that they are often prepared to spoil and debase the local culture and environment in order to get hold of the tourists' money.

And as for your analogy re the French tourist on the bus, well if the Scottish pound was as 'soft' as the currency in some popular tourist destinations outside of the sterling/dollar/euro zones then I could imagine that everybody involved in the tourist business here would do everything possible to make sure that visitors to Scotland paid for everything in the 'hard' currency of their country of origin. In fact we might do what I experienced in China in the very early 1980s.

Tourists were only allowed to use dollars, sterling or similar hard currency in any of the shops, hotels, services aimed at them and for anything else had to change their hard currency into tourist 'script', not the local currency which we were unable to use anywhere except in very, very limited circumstances. Even on the ordinary public buses we had to use 'script' and had to make sure we had the right money because most tourists didn't use the local buses and so the drivers didn't usually have 'script' to give you change. As it was, they weren't allowed to give you change in the local currency and we would have been reluctant to take it because we wouldn't have been allowed to spend it anywhere on the sort of things we'd want to buy! And as you weren't allowed to take it out of China you might as well have ripped up or given away any you did acquire.

Of course this made most local people all the more eager to do anything they could to obtain tourist 'script' or hard currency because that was all you were allowed to use in the shops that sold the highest quality goods! Believe me, the only reason we were allowed into China was to spend money and help the Chinese economy and it was pretty clear why they needed the money we spent. And it was worth every penny to be there before the advent of mass tourism.

If an independent Scotland ever finds itself in the position that China was at that time, then I can well imagine that the Scottish Government of the day would be doing everything possible to get hold of the tourists' hard currrency just like the Chinese were then (and possibly still are today!) including making French visitors arriving at Edinburgh Airport pay 5 Euros in Euros, no change given, to use the bus to get into the city :-)

SM

CY apologies if I misread you here is your quote:

"Not that It's really an issue that I want to push and consider to be a total scam but.. "

and consider to be a total scam seems to me that you are saying it is a total scam. Even if not by not considering it to be a total scam you are considering it to be a scam of some sort.

Anyway enough you have made your point i have made mine and I think we may have gone off topic.

Stewart

it says not that I consider...and a total scam, that a listed comment.

For the meaning you want to see from it, I would have written "not consider.... but it is a total scam"

anyway the TOURIST industry is based on people wanting to visit a place for whatever reason, the place has to make itself attractive to visitors. Getting people to come to your country for no other reason then to take money off them is not the tourist industry !

but anyway back to topic

Cy,

We're talking about the motivation here for bothering to have a tourist industry in the first place - or at least I am. I think you're talking about why tourists would want to visit a country which is a different thing. I think we all know why the 18-30 crowd love Faliraki but if it's not for the money they spend just why do the locals who service they're needs put up with them? Perhaps you could explain in a bit more detail why you think countries which try and encourage tourists to visit them do so if it's not for the money they spend.

SM

Why does a plumber become a plumber?
He doesn't think I will go to college to learn how to take money off people, I want to be able to take money off people.
He goes because he wants to be a plumber and satisfy a demand doing something he enjoys doing.

A resort that is trying to attract tourists, sets up to be nice to visit and to make people want to be there. They don't order 400 tonnes of concrete to put foundations of a hotel down saying I want to take peoples money off them ! They set up with a view to being a tourist resort and getting paid for doing something they want to be.

Cy,

I'm still in the dark as to WHY you think any country would want to develop their tourist industry in the first place. And especially what the attraction is if you live and work in a resort like Faliraki or Ayia Napa for having your home town overun by drunken British louts who expect you to reproduce Blackpool in the sun for them if it isn't the money they spend.

The town where I live and the businesses based in it set out to be attractive to a particular type of visitor - high spending golfers - and to make it a place they would want to visit but they do it because there's precious little other viable local industry around to provide an income for people living in the town and to keep the local economy and infrastructure going. Listen to the moans of local residents about how difficult it is to get tee times on the local course due to the number that are reserved for guests staying in the local hotels and you'd soon realise that if we could get by without the money they spend keeping local businesses such as hotels, tea rooms and shops going then we'd probably all rather do without them thank you very much if it meant that we got to play a round of golf on a Saturday afternoon wihtout having to book it ages in advance!

Similarly, the biggest moan about the last time we hosted the Open here was that the traffic control system resulted in most spectators going straight to the course and bypassing the centre of the town and that as a result they never ventured into the shopping area and spent little money in the local businesses. A great many residents reckoned that the disruption it all caused wasn't worth the hassle but were mollified by the argument that it put us back on the golfing map after a period of absence and that it would bring visitors back to the town and the golf course who would spend money. And they did and they do and we are proud of the hospitality we offer, the warm welcome and good service they receive from the smallest coffee shop to the biggest, most expensive hotel but please do not be under any illusions that residents in Scottish golfing towns welcome visitors because they enjoy having them here for their own sake. We need them because we need the money they spend so we welcome them and try all we can to make them want to return. We turned ourselves into a tourist resort because we need the employment that provides, not because there is something intrinsically enjoyable about having them here.

And as for plumbers, the next time I have to call one out to unblock my toilet I'll try offering him a small token of my appreciation commensurate with the national minimum wage payable for his time rather than paying a whopping a calll-out charge. I'm sure that once I tell him that since he became a plumber because he wants to satisfy the demand for unblocking toilets whilst doing something he enjoys doing rather than because he wants to earn a decent living and that he can't possibly want to exploit the fact that I have little choice but to pay him whatever he demands in callout fees etc he'll accept the logic of my argument and waive the large bill that he usually sends!

SM

For some strange reason you are becoming obsessed with the a different point. The point being made was about the 'visa' charge and that I thought it was a little suspect in the way it was taken.

I know (like everyone else) that the tourist industry is about making money and the way you give us a run down of your area shows that it now depends on it. However this again is a choice to become a tourist resort and premote it. They could have made it and industrial site and had business come to the area for the good premises, they could have agreed to store waste radioactive material if all they were interested in was money.

The choice to become a tourist area was a nicer way of making money, that again was like the plumber being a plumber as he enjoys that sort of work. He could probably make money by being a mugger but that wasn't as nice a prospect.

No one would expect the plumber to work for nothing that is just being ridiculous, however no one would expect him to do dental work either. His job is plumbing which was his choice of career and how he would make his living. The next time you go on the Golf Course take all your rubbish and things you need to throw away and dump it on the course. Pay them a small tipping fee for doing it. By your logic they will be only to happy to have it there as they only want to make money.

The penny has finally dropped, Cy :-) I can see now that what's most important to you is having the last word even if that means pursuing an illogical argument so I won't bother trying to point out the fallacies in your last post beyond saying that of course there are less pleasant ways that businesses in my home town could make money but that doesn't mean that we are in the tourist business for any other reason than trying to generate money either, especially since the tourist industry is more profitable round here than the landfill business as many farmers trying to diversify are discovering.

So I'll leave you with your belief that the Turkish authorities are both scamming you with the £10 visa charge but that they are not primarily in the business of making money from you as a tourist. This seems to be on a par with the idea that the charter airlines shouldn't be exploiting the fact that some but not all people are willing to pay more for extra comfort and should just let you have an extra leg room seat without paying any more for it. The logic of arguing that people in the tourist industry are scamming you but aren't motivated by trying to make money from you defeats me. This will be my last word on this topic so feel free to have the very last word on the thread because the penny seems to have dropped much quicker with everybody else who was contributing to the discussion :-)

SM

If you want to go down your route of saying that money is the be all and end all of the tourist industry, why stop there? Why do they want to make money? So they can buy things, that supports other things and all along that line they eventually end up with death. So lets jump right to the end, its obviously nothing dubious about the visa charge in Turkey as they don't want to die.

As for the seat topic that was done and dusted, its not EXTRA leg room for someone who is above the so called average height, its just leg room.

By the way when you run out of points to make in a debate, just say so rather than try to make out that anything else that is going to be said is just down to getting the last word in..

Blimey you even had the last word on yourself.

Stewart

Well it beats sticking my fingers in my ears and going nerner nerner

For those of you who are confused here is Jo's original complaint:-

Hello,
This is only a little complaint but something i feel i should complain to cosmos about. Coming back from turkey on Monday ( very nice holiday) at Bodrum airport i handed in my ticket i had bought from my cosmos rep to pre-allocate 2 seats as the rep said Mondays are the busiest day at Bodrum & we probably wouldn't get to sit together on the plane, this cost only £10 but at the airport the check in lady laughed & said they didn't except pre-allocated seats, the ticket meant nothing to them.She said reps were always selling these tickets but they have nothing to do with the airlines so it's a complete waste of money. Though it's only £10 i do not like to be ripped off & feel i should write to cosmos demanding a refund! Do you think i'm being unreasonable?

Jo I would certainly write to Cosmos and complain about the above.

As an aside

If the £10 tourist tax isn't a scam, how come it is only 10 euros from the rest of europe?

meanwhile back on subject, my everlasting impression of turkish reps and the TOs involved was that the TOs set up the scams and the reps are just the front line, but then i could have been mistaken. However my holidays in Turkey were good despite the reps not because of.

Make an official complaint as they will have to acknowledge their part or refund the fee.

Good Luck

If the £10 tourist tax isn't a scam, how come it is only 10 euros from the rest of europe?

The £10 to enter Turkey isn't a tourist tax as far as I am aware, it is the cost of a visa to enter the country. Many countries, particularly outside Europe, require visitors to have a visa and charge varying amounts which are generally much more than £10.

luci

Hi Luci

Call it what you like.
all you get is a stamp in the passports. No vetting takes place, the guards often don't even look up as passport control is further on down the line.

So technically called a "visa" but in fact a government revenue (tax) on foreigners ie a "tourist tax".

And if you come from a Euro country it is only a €10 note (£7) according to the posts I have read on the turkish forum. So the Brits are seen as suckers ripe for exploitation from the Turkish government down.
Small wonder then that the travel reps in question are able to continue their scam unabashed.

Well here is one "sucker" who is delighted to be "exploited" like this - £10 is a small price to pay to gain access to such a beautiful, friendly, welcoming country!
Shorty

Steve,

Our Air Passenger Duty of £5.00 short haul £10.00 Long haul applies to everyone. This money goes to the government no vetting no checks just hand over your money. Looks like we are operating a technical visa/tourist tax as well accept we take it when the toursits depart the country albeit they dont have to hand over a note.

Why is Turkeys Visa charge a scam/rip off when other countries visa charges ( often quite a lot more )are not ?

Kind Regards
Stewart