People work hard all year for their two week holiday not to have the 'emotional blackmail card shoved in their face of 'oh but it's damaging the Turkish Economy'

couldnt of put that better myself chris .

Lets look at it a different way
I do firmly believe that the turks are now very tuned in on how to make money and are becoming somewhat greedy . if these A/I hotels didnt make a profit turning out excellent standards of food and unlimited food and drink in some cases branded soft drinks to hundreds of people a day then they wouldnt be doing it at the price we pay. So I have to question how much profit is now being made out of greedy bars/restuarant owners that were charging on average 6/7 YTL for a beer in turgutreis this year even in the crumby places you wouldnt bother to go in . If you stayed out late as a family the bar bill alone could easily top £100 if drinks were flowing .

Why do the turks never grasp the principal of its better to make a little on a lot than a lot on nothing . why is it that when business is slack instead of lowering the prices they put them up. I know this is what they do as I have family who are turkish and over the last 25 years have owned bars/restuarants in kusadasi and despite the moans and groans coming from turkey and the english advice offered to lower prices they cant grasp good business sense. . I love turkey , we go every year and yes to A/Is but they need to wake up fast .

lyn

Hi Lyn

I'm just completely fed up with people trying to make me feel guilty about going AI in Turkey and that I owe the Turkish people a living. I actually think there is quite a lot of greed there (as there is in all communities) and that is also part of the problem.

The OP says AI's are responsible for the haggling. I don't think so I thought it had been part of the culture there for hundreds of years.

Presumably Turkey has a central government (like Wesminster) and local Government,(like our councils). They didn't have to agree to all these AI's being bulit. They must have taken an 'overall view' that such establishments at the time were of benefit to the populace of Turkey as a whole.

Turkey is not a 'special case' in many communities often the small business suffers at the hands of the large corporation. Anybody who has an even rudimentary (GCSE level) understanding of Economics and Business knows this.

This year I have been twice to Turkey once in June to Olu Deniz and found the prices to be much the same as last year. We have been to Olu Deniz many times in the last 12 years and it has changed and increased. Many of the hotels have changed to all inclusive and this has had a bad effect on the resort I feel. The second time I have just come back from Adrasan, which is a resort near Antalya which is mostly for turkish tourists and a few English, the prices there were much cheaper than Olu Deniz for food and much nicer food! The drink prices were about the same. We were paying the same as the Turkish tourists for things. The resorts that are not catering to the European market are much cheaper I feel. There were no all inclusive hotels in Adrasan.

The second time I have just come back from Adrasan, which is a resort near Antalya which is mostly for turkish tourists and a few English, the prices there were much cheaper than Olu Deniz for food and much nicer food! The drink prices were about the same. We were paying the same as the Turkish tourists for things. The resorts that are not catering to the European market are much cheaper I feel. There were no all inclusive hotels in Adrasan.

thank you lady..you have proven my point.....there are places that are better, cheaper etc....Adrasan like Cirali are NOT the AI resorts..therefore prices are normal...and I am sure that there are many similar places like this in other parts of Turkey too..

this also applies to akyaka the prices there were fine and not over inflated, again its not full of all inc and british tourists mainly turkish

i agree with what lyn and chris say too, having gone from akyaka to marmaris and icmeler within a day there was a huge increase in the prices of meals in the restaurants and yet its only 20 miles up the road, i assume some of this is to do with higher rent in the more popular places but i also think they can be greedy. my mother watches the menus increase a lot around end of april for the summer season this really winds her up

some people benefit from all incs others dont , so i think its an individual thing and down to everyones choice

Once again Doe I feel you are having a dig at me. Firstly I do have an interst in Turkey because my husband is Turkish and I lived there and we have many friends and family there. I certainly don't have any business interest there.

Turkey is still cheap if you go to the right places, not just down the main street of a tourist resort. I never had my mum send me clothes ove, I used to find good, cheap clothes with no problem. Local people don't go out drinking and eating every night and they also go to local restaurants, which is where you can find the good food and good prices. Obviously you wont see any of this from inside and AL hotel though.

I do not restrict my childrens drinks in any way, I only allow them a couple of fizzy drinks because any more would not be good for them, they don't have many fizzy drinks at home so they get a couple as a treat on holiday. They drink lots of water, which is far better for them. Anyway most bugs tend to occur in AI hotels....

No-one said hassle was part of the culture, I said haggling was, there is a huge difference.

I am getting fed up with you picking on everything I say.

If you want to go to and All Inclusive hotel an stay in thre for 2 weeks that is up to you. A lot of people want to do that but lot of other people like to experience a bit of the culture, mingle with the locals and have an understanding of the place they are visiting.

Doe, lets not forget the tips we give to the waiters etc at our AI hotels. The money we spend on the boat trips,at the market,in the hotel shop,in the bars of friends we have made in previous years.
I really don't think we have to justify ourselves. Oh yes and that 3 grand we forked out a couple of months before we went!
Personally I prefer to let my kids have what they want on holiday, if they want a coke they can have one, especially when I've already paid for it upfront!

We would never have considered all inclusive in the past, but after our last visit to marmaris we would now, the prices have gone sky high. Alcoholic and soft drinks are more expensive than in scotland ( a lot more expensive). We got the impression that bar owners think we will pay whatever price they ask.

Why is there this assumption that if you go AI, you just sit in the hotel for your entire stay? OK, I'm sure there are some who do, but personally that would drive me crazy. We actually spend a lot when we are away on trips(including meals out and tips) because we want to experience the country and it's culture- AI is just the most economical option to allow us to budget upfront, meaning that all our spending money can be used for going out and exploring.

Pam

I go to AI in belek ,which is now classed as the turkish riviera where loads of turkish people go on holiday ,i have met plenty of turks on holiday there who own bars /resaurants in places ,like marmaris, bodrum,icmeler and istanbul .One couple i met in june own eight bars all over turkey ,how can they afford to go to top class AI accomadation if the turkish economy is so bad .
Maybe the workers,are poor but certainly not the owners ,they are quite happy to stay at Ai hotels who are supposed to be stealing there trade . .I think not .If the workers are not getting paid ,as some has said then that is up to the turkish goverment to do something about it.It should not be blamed on the tourists who spend there money all over the country ,not just in A/i .What some people are sujesting here is that the tourists are harming tourism.

Bluepeterno1

I agree some bar and restaurant owners are very rich, they run busy places, which are always full and makes load of money but other businesses are suffering. I will give you an example: one owner runs a small hotel/bar/restaurant along the beach, he spent several years building up this business and it was doing really well unitl a couple of years ago. he never charged stupid prices for food and drink and anyone could come along and use the sunbeds on the beach or swim in the pool. Now he has 2 all inclusive hotels practically next door, I have seen the people from these hotels go onto the beach with their plastic glasses and their free drinks, lay on his sunbeds all morning, go back for lunch to their hotel, come back in the afternoon with their drinks again and go back to their hotel for dinner. How can he make money from these people? And because most of the people don't even come out of their hotel he doesn't get the trade he used to and his bar and restaurant aren't as busy as before. He is now considering selling up next year. This is what the problem is and what my original point was.

minione wrote:

Doe, lets not forget the tips we give to the waiters etc at our AI hotels. The money we spend on the boat trips,at the market,in the hotel shop,in the bars of friends we have made in previous years.
I really don't think we have to justify ourselves. Oh yes and that 3 grand we forked out a couple of months before we went!
Personally I prefer to let my kids have what they want on holiday, if they want a coke they can have one, especially when I've already paid for it upfront! ;)

As you quite rightly say Minone we do not really have to justify ourselves to people who have a rather uneducated stereotypical view on the type of people who chose to go AI.

It facinates me how people who purport never to go to an AI know what people are like and are extremely judgemental about those of us who choose to holiday in them. Assuming we are some kind of Chav's who fill our kids full of carp and ourselves full of cheap local spirit (personally wouldn't touch it with a barge pole, turkish drink ) whilst they are superior in some way, because they take their kids out to restaurants.

Most of the people in Lykia this summer seemed to have forked out about 5 or 6K for their fortnight in a top class resort and seemed quite happy. Most were business men and their wives, with youngish families who I would imagine work bloody hard to get a bang for their buck. I am sure they will continue to go there each year with little concern for the Turkish economy and good luck to them.

I certainly spend outside the resort as you do, I did this time and last time I visited as well, although to be honest if people want to go in and not come out for two weeks good luck to them.

As with yourself my children are on holiday and have a relatively healthy diet the rest of the year I hardly think three glasses of juice rather than two will be the end of the world, especially when they are swilling down a couple of litres of mineral water a day as well.

Doe, once again you are having a dig - even though you have been asked not to do it.

I am not uneducated, nor am I judgemental. I have never said anyone is a "chav" or drinks too much. Many people take their children to restaurants but I don't kow anyone who thinks they are superior.

Why don't you just stop this. It has nothing to do with the original post.

I dont really know why you think I am having a dig at you. I just dont really agree with the original post, its too simplistic to blame an economic downturn on the AI's (and the people that choose to holiday in them) There are other factors.

There are as many if not more comments on this thread in favor of AI's than against them with many folks saying that they go AI but still go outside the resorts and visit places, eat in restaurants & cafes as well as their hotels, go on boat trips visit markets, visit historical sites etc as indeed do I with my family.

Perhaps the argument should be looked at in a different way, possibly the Turkish local authoritys should have restricted the opening of so many bars and restaurants in tourist resorts.

If there was regulation as there is in many Countrys to restrict the volume of bars and restaurants then, perhaps those that were left would have a chance of making a decent living.

Most economies cannot support road after road after road that are made up of just restaurants, cafes and bars.

It's totally unrealistic. Maybe if they didnt keep granting licences for more and more places to open the current ones would survive.

I find all of these comment on here very intresting indeed. My partner and I are both in professional jobs at the beginning of our careers and have a 2 year old . With the recent collapse of air liners I am concerned that even we may be priced out of the holiday market if things carry on this way. I may be wrong and am only presuming but I suspect that if the cheaper end of the market continues to wobble then the larger tour operators may hike prices up . I somehow feel that AI may become a more affoardable option in the future than going DIY. Although I am sure some will disagree. I do hope this is not the case as if we (the tourists) are priced out of going in the first place the ripple effects will be devastating for all sectors of the tourist economy including AI. I know I am speculating here but should this happen would it not force people to holiday in the UK more which would be excellent for our economy, lets face it at the moment it needds it!! Something will need to give in the future.

This is just my opinion ofcourse, hope what I feel is proved wrong.

Kedi I know this has gone off topic a little but it is just a general concern of mine which impacts on tourism in all provider sectors.

Peace!
Ruth

I think that the hotels that change from bed and breakfast to all inclusive are the ones that are causing the problems in resort and the goverment has no say over that I am sure. Olu Deniz has changed so much over the last twelve years and most of the change happened when the Belcekiz Beach hotel went all inclusive, followed by a great many others. In the evening the small restaurants were full and now you find the town is full of people just wandering around after their meal at their all inclusive. Many of the smaller restaraunts have now gone to noisy music bars in the hope of attracting people, which is spoling the resort. The hotels like Lykia World that are off on their own away from resort are not a problem as they have never used the resort a lot. I know that for young families it does work out easier and cheaper to go all inclusive and I do not blame anyone for using this, my own daughter and family do if they go to Olu Deniz. My husband and I would not use all inclusive and hope that the smaller resorts like Akyaka, Cirali and Adrasan never attract any!

lady akyaka is in a conservation area so im quite confident this wont happen there

i go to turkey quite a few times a year and go all inc and sc, there are + & - for both, although we usually try to go for 5* all incs to try and insure better quality food. we never stay in the hotels all day as i hate being hotel bound and like to see as much as possible of the area, hence hiring a car at our last all inc in may/june, so far this year ive gone sc twice and all inc once and next mth going sc again so im certainly giving plenty of my money to the turks lol

just a bit worried about next years prices for flights and packages to turkey they seem extremely high grrr

Kedi ,,you have said that you have family in turkey and it is understandable that you would be concerned about them ,but small businesses all over the world get pushed out by the big men ,its called progress,you just have to look at the small (open all hour type shops)where you could get a pint of milk or a pkt of tea bags.They were shoved aside by the big supermarkets .Quite honestly there are to many bars ,restaurants ,cafes ,in holiday resorts all over the world and because of the current world economy there are going to be casualties all over the world.I stay on a small holiday island on the clyde in scotland ,a population of just over six thousand where most of the local businesses rely on the money they make in the summer to keep them going through the winter as the local trade is not enough .It is getting worse all the time and many of the pubs ,restaurants and cafes will go to the wall ,there has been three this week alone .I know that turkey really rely on the tourist trade ,but i am afraid that if things carry on the way its going then even the big men will find it hard .Myself as well as loads of people have been going to turkey for years and there was a time in turkey when you just could not spend your money .I am afraid that time is over .There are bound to be casualties there and as far as i am concerned it is not down to just the all inclusive hotels.

Bluepeterno1

I have to say bluepeterno1 I have to agree with you there. Just a sign of the times. Will be interesting to see how things pan out over the next year ahead.

Ruth