I wonder if anyone could please offer advice.
I have complained to Thomas Cook since our return, and received basically an apology and letters stating they do not have any responsibility or a liability for recompense for my complaint
In summary
We had about aprox 9 hour delay with no support of food or milk for our baby
The brief details:-
We flew back from Tenerife to Manchester on 27th May. At the Hotel we were told by their rep there was no delays.
I was travelling with my wife, son who was 4 and our baby.The flight was originally meant to leave at 9pm
We arrived at the airport with what we understood to be the legal limit of food and drink for our baby. planned for no delay because that is what we told.
When we arrived at the airport we were told by the Thomas Cook Reps that there was a 5 hour delay. We did receive a voucher to spend in the duty free part of the airport.
1) We were NOT told there was no facilities to buy milk or baby food once through passport control
2) Having gone through to Duty free, we fed our baby the food and milk we had, and were worried about food and milk for the rest of the Journey. The only person we could talk to on the information desk ( No-one from Thomas Cook ) confirmed there was nothing available for babies in the duty free area but there should be something available on the plane
3) When we boarded, we were informed by the flight staff there was nothing on board they could provide ( not even milk ) for our baby
4) When we landed at Manchester Airport, there were ongoing problems with luggage handlers and it took once through passport control over 3 .5 hours to receive our cases. We had constant lies through the tannoy stating our luggage would only be 15 or 20 mins. Again no Thomas Cook rep was available.
5) I tried to get milk and food for my Baby, and the only advice came from the information desk who had a very angry crowd of passengers to deal with was that we could leave without our luggage and return the next day. We live 130 mile away and this was not really an option but were pacing on the edge of walking out until we soothed the baby to sleep. If we knew there was going to be a delay of 3.5 hours we would have walked out straight away, but every 15 / 20 mins we were told your luggage will now be avilable to collect
The correspondence from Thomas Cook clearly shows they haven't really investigated this because the lack of facts / assumptions and conflicts in the letters they have sent.
Our complaint / Argument is that Thomas Cook knew there were delays, Apparently it started 4 days earlier with a number of flight with technical difficulties.
They must know or be able to advise there there was no facilities after 9pm at the airport.
They should have had some provision available on the plane because it was an organised substitute plane flight and they knew there would be babies travelling.
They knew about the delays at Manchester Airport - The luggage advice workers told us this.
They should have been support / information from Thomas Cook
There should have been FOOD / MILK available for our baby during the flight and at Manchester airport because of the equivalent of almost a 9 hour delay
We could cope with the airport at Tenerife because we had the milk and food prepared for the flight but after this point we had been denied anything for the following almost 9 hours for our baby
As you may appreciate is how angry my wife and I have been about the way our baby was denied food and milk and lack of care and support we were offered as we were put through this ordeal
We feel very strongly about this, and are considerding starting legal action.
Any views would be sincerely appreciated
Regards
Why dont you give Ros Fernihough, Travel Law Solicitor a call.
She will be able to advise you as to your next course of action.
The direct number to Ros's PA, Pam is 01922 705134
Or try the switchboard number 01922 633214 and ask for Travel Dept.
Kath HT Admin
She will be able to advise you as to your next course of action.
The direct number to Ros's PA, Pam is 01922 705134
Or try the switchboard number 01922 633214 and ask for Travel Dept.
Kath HT Admin
I can understand your annoyance but not sure you will have a case for compensation.
The Flight delay was 5 Hours, they provided a voucher for refreshments as they are meant to do. I dont think there is any provision in the law about providing food for babies who I guess are non fare paying passengers.
There would be no obligation for an aircraft to provide food for babies, maybe the ability to heat baby food up. Not sure on the rules of taking baby food through security so I guess this is an area that no one has really looked at as I can imagine a majority of airports do not have baby food once through passport control.
The Baggage delay Thomas Cook will state out of their control as this is provided by the airport baggage handlers and does not count as a further delay on the aircraft.
I would imagine all airlines would shy away from providing baby food/milk due to all potential problems if it was made up wrong or the wrong type. They I guess would also hide behind the fact that the bay was carried free of charge and not entitled to a baggage allowance or food etc. ( This is not me being unsympathetic just saying what I think Thomas Cook would claim in any legal action ).
Having now gone past the baby stage I think your complaint does raise a few areas of concern on delays when passengers have babies. Before I guess it was no problem making up extra milk. I have just looked up this rule and I understand baby milk is excluded from the regulations on liquids:
What About Baby Milk and Baby Food?
Baby milk and liquid baby food may be taken in hand luggage, and are not subject to the 100 ml limit, but the contents of each bottle or jar must be tasted by an accompanying passenger.
Could your wife not have taken your baby and son through security where shops would have been open in the airport while you waited for the cases ?
A horrible experience I can imagine, taking babies on flights is stressful enough without delays and running out of food. However I am not sure you have a strong case for compensation.
Kind Regards
Stewart Wilkie
The Flight delay was 5 Hours, they provided a voucher for refreshments as they are meant to do. I dont think there is any provision in the law about providing food for babies who I guess are non fare paying passengers.
There would be no obligation for an aircraft to provide food for babies, maybe the ability to heat baby food up. Not sure on the rules of taking baby food through security so I guess this is an area that no one has really looked at as I can imagine a majority of airports do not have baby food once through passport control.
The Baggage delay Thomas Cook will state out of their control as this is provided by the airport baggage handlers and does not count as a further delay on the aircraft.
I would imagine all airlines would shy away from providing baby food/milk due to all potential problems if it was made up wrong or the wrong type. They I guess would also hide behind the fact that the bay was carried free of charge and not entitled to a baggage allowance or food etc. ( This is not me being unsympathetic just saying what I think Thomas Cook would claim in any legal action ).
Having now gone past the baby stage I think your complaint does raise a few areas of concern on delays when passengers have babies. Before I guess it was no problem making up extra milk. I have just looked up this rule and I understand baby milk is excluded from the regulations on liquids:
What About Baby Milk and Baby Food?
Baby milk and liquid baby food may be taken in hand luggage, and are not subject to the 100 ml limit, but the contents of each bottle or jar must be tasted by an accompanying passenger.
Could your wife not have taken your baby and son through security where shops would have been open in the airport while you waited for the cases ?
A horrible experience I can imagine, taking babies on flights is stressful enough without delays and running out of food. However I am not sure you have a strong case for compensation.
Kind Regards
Stewart Wilkie
Sorry to hear of this nightmare journey, however I fear that you may be wasting your time seeking recompense for this situation.
Whilst the resort rep told you there was no delay, they are not always in a position to tell you correctly as they are not always in direct contact with the airport, you also dont state how long before departing for the airport you asked the rep ie if you asked at 2pm in the afternoon there probably wasnt any information about a delay, and also to be honest, having worked at an airport in Spain it can be anything up to an hour after scheduled departure time from the UK that the resort airport receives a movement report to say that the a/c is on its way or not. However TCs answer may well be that despite this info being incorrect, you the passenger should be prepared at all times for a delay and should carry enough food,milk,nappies etc to look after the baby. for example what if the flight had indeed arrived on time, but 'went tech' whilst on the ground in Tenerife. Having travelled with both my daughters as babies I know how stressful that situation probably was, however my wife took enough gear that we could have had 2 weeks at the airport, never mind the resort!
I agree with Stewart that the baggage delay was probably out of the airlines control, and also that it is unlikely that they would carry milk/food as any mistakes ie too hot and scalds child, is certainly going to end in litigation, so take it out of the equation.
I would be very surprised if anything was to come of this, but keep us in touch.
Whilst the resort rep told you there was no delay, they are not always in a position to tell you correctly as they are not always in direct contact with the airport, you also dont state how long before departing for the airport you asked the rep ie if you asked at 2pm in the afternoon there probably wasnt any information about a delay, and also to be honest, having worked at an airport in Spain it can be anything up to an hour after scheduled departure time from the UK that the resort airport receives a movement report to say that the a/c is on its way or not. However TCs answer may well be that despite this info being incorrect, you the passenger should be prepared at all times for a delay and should carry enough food,milk,nappies etc to look after the baby. for example what if the flight had indeed arrived on time, but 'went tech' whilst on the ground in Tenerife. Having travelled with both my daughters as babies I know how stressful that situation probably was, however my wife took enough gear that we could have had 2 weeks at the airport, never mind the resort!
I agree with Stewart that the baggage delay was probably out of the airlines control, and also that it is unlikely that they would carry milk/food as any mistakes ie too hot and scalds child, is certainly going to end in litigation, so take it out of the equation.
I would be very surprised if anything was to come of this, but keep us in touch.
Thank you all for your replies and just to add some further brief points
Our baby is 18months old so not quite a baby but not a child so he drinks full fat milk etc
TC did know about the delays because they started 4 days earlier with several planes being cancelled and they still had not caught up
We did no expect anything for free but we left with no information and there was no facilities other then beer fizzy pop, pizza and burgers to purchase.
In terms of Macnhester airport, If my wife could have coped with our 4 year old who was asleep on his feet and an 18month yr old in the other arm with no pushchair ( stuck somewhere with the cases) then we would have left to get food straight away.
The angry bit about this, and we perhaps have all been there, is we were told every 10 - 15 mins through the tannoy that our case would shortly arrive, then the baby would be asleep so we would wait for 15 mins then he would wake up crying for food - you might know the situation....
We have had the standard fobbing off letters "thank you and we are sorry to learn" and "its not our responsibility" but I know this has jnot been looked into because there statements are presumptious and factually incorrect.
To cap it all, its virutally impossible to get through on their switch board, their FAX has been constantly engaged for 2 days nad last time it took over 3 weeks to acknowledge an email and letter.
Sorry if this is a bit of a rant, but this cant be the norm ? no support / information or facililities for parents with 18month yr olds that are stuck in a journey, least if he was an 18 YEAR old he could have had a pint and a pizza
Thank you again for your advice
regards
Our baby is 18months old so not quite a baby but not a child so he drinks full fat milk etc
TC did know about the delays because they started 4 days earlier with several planes being cancelled and they still had not caught up
We did no expect anything for free but we left with no information and there was no facilities other then beer fizzy pop, pizza and burgers to purchase.
In terms of Macnhester airport, If my wife could have coped with our 4 year old who was asleep on his feet and an 18month yr old in the other arm with no pushchair ( stuck somewhere with the cases) then we would have left to get food straight away.
The angry bit about this, and we perhaps have all been there, is we were told every 10 - 15 mins through the tannoy that our case would shortly arrive, then the baby would be asleep so we would wait for 15 mins then he would wake up crying for food - you might know the situation....
We have had the standard fobbing off letters "thank you and we are sorry to learn" and "its not our responsibility" but I know this has jnot been looked into because there statements are presumptious and factually incorrect.
To cap it all, its virutally impossible to get through on their switch board, their FAX has been constantly engaged for 2 days nad last time it took over 3 weeks to acknowledge an email and letter.
Sorry if this is a bit of a rant, but this cant be the norm ? no support / information or facililities for parents with 18month yr olds that are stuck in a journey, least if he was an 18 YEAR old he could have had a pint and a pizza
Thank you again for your advice
regards
Clearly an awful airport experience, one of the reasons I have given up flying now, so I have every sympathy, but I`m afraid I have to agree with the others and think you might have to write this off to experience. Firstly although there may have been delays within the Thomas Cook fleet over the preceeding days they would argue that your aircraft and routing was un affected until a tech problem at the last minute, or an unexpected delay occured. Once at Manchester, the aircraft we were on, was good to go, but the cleaners failed to pull finger and we suffered a 90min delay!!!....I know how you feel. You may be right on the reasons for the delay but its being able to prove it that counts..sorry
Re food and drink for the baby, airlines dont carry it usually on the advice of their lawyers. If something goes wrong, and in this area of public health it soon can, then well you can imagine.....
Re Manchester airport, this place just has to be the pits.Its a disorganised dump of cost cutting proportions
and therin lies your problems. Once an aircraft arrives, on blocks, at its destination the passengers are the responsibility of the ground handling agents,in this case I think its Servisair and the airport management set up and not the carrying airline. Indeed Airlines are not allowed to set up info desks within arrivals areas for that reason hence being unable to contact Thomas Cook Airline.
It may be worthwhile addressing a complaint to Manchester airport itself, but dont hold your breath as they gets dozens a day!!!!!!
Having travelled with kids I really do feel for you but I dont think you really have anywhere else to go...sorry
Re food and drink for the baby, airlines dont carry it usually on the advice of their lawyers. If something goes wrong, and in this area of public health it soon can, then well you can imagine.....
Re Manchester airport, this place just has to be the pits.Its a disorganised dump of cost cutting proportions
and therin lies your problems. Once an aircraft arrives, on blocks, at its destination the passengers are the responsibility of the ground handling agents,in this case I think its Servisair and the airport management set up and not the carrying airline. Indeed Airlines are not allowed to set up info desks within arrivals areas for that reason hence being unable to contact Thomas Cook Airline.It may be worthwhile addressing a complaint to Manchester airport itself, but dont hold your breath as they gets dozens a day!!!!!!
Having travelled with kids I really do feel for you but I dont think you really have anywhere else to go...sorry
Its poor customer service from the airport in Tenerife,the Thomas Cook reps and Manchester Airport. Someone at iether airport with a security tag could have gone back landside and got you something if they had any compassion but from a legal point of view not something they have to do.
Thomas Cook may have had delays from 4 days previous but with bringing in extra aircraft they may have thought the problem solved only for another delay to occur.
Interesting point in that baby milk is allowed through but I dont think normal milk is so not sure how you prepare for delays in this instance.
The Baggage again ( have been there at Gatwick on a night flight with young kids taking over 2 hours with everyone dead on the feet )they will point out is Manchester Airports responsibility.
I dont think there is much legally you can do so I would try and forget it, why put your self through the stress of getting another standard letter saying sorry but can not offer anything.
A horrible experience but in my opinion not worth wasting anymore energy on.
Kind Regards
Stewart
Thomas Cook may have had delays from 4 days previous but with bringing in extra aircraft they may have thought the problem solved only for another delay to occur.
Interesting point in that baby milk is allowed through but I dont think normal milk is so not sure how you prepare for delays in this instance.
The Baggage again ( have been there at Gatwick on a night flight with young kids taking over 2 hours with everyone dead on the feet )they will point out is Manchester Airports responsibility.
I dont think there is much legally you can do so I would try and forget it, why put your self through the stress of getting another standard letter saying sorry but can not offer anything.
A horrible experience but in my opinion not worth wasting anymore energy on.
Kind Regards
Stewart
Perhaps I am wrong but surely an 18month old would drink orange juice and eat biscuits etc? And if not, then it really is down to you to carry some emergency rations in your hand luggage should you get a delay.
I can't believe that there was nothing for him to eat at Tenerife airport - after all this is not exactly a third world airport.
I think also that if you ask you can go back through security to landside if you have a long delay although you may not have found that any better.
I agree you may have to put this down to experience and perhaps holiday in this country until the children are a little older.
Pippa
I can't believe that there was nothing for him to eat at Tenerife airport - after all this is not exactly a third world airport.
I think also that if you ask you can go back through security to landside if you have a long delay although you may not have found that any better.
I agree you may have to put this down to experience and perhaps holiday in this country until the children are a little older.
Pippa
hi I think you will probably have to write this off as a bad experience and go well prepared in future,a tip that may help,when we took our son abroad as a baby I gave him formula at room temperature,took a container with powdered milk in it ,then added water as required,very few airports or planes would be unable to supply boiled water or,if baby is old enough,even bottled water.
I agree with many of the other posters. I think you will have to put it down to experience but learn to perhaps take your own additional supplies in future just in case you suffer with a fligt delay again.
Poor customer service from Thomas Cook could be argued, but as you have not paid anything for the infant to travel they are under no obligation to supply food, milk or other items for the baby.
Poor customer service from Thomas Cook could be argued, but as you have not paid anything for the infant to travel they are under no obligation to supply food, milk or other items for the baby.
Thank you all again for your comments
And just to respond to a couple of points
In Tenerife airport other than a burger King and Unit selling pizza's by the by the time we got through check in, the place was basically like a ghost town ( except the bar was open till 11 - so if we wanted beer crisps or nuts we would have been OK)
Just on the point about babies, this seems to be a bit of a grey area.
There is a point where babies eating moves to solids and Im sorry Pippa you just cant shove a biscuit in their mouth and expect them to eat it.We did have enough food and milk for about 6 or 7 hours because thats we we expected.
We were NOT wanting anything for free, I just thought that in this day and age you could purchase some milk or packet infant food in the airport or on the plane - they sell everything else beer, crisps, chocolate etc - would it cause any hardship to have few pints of milk or packet of toddler food available - knowing that they had a "baby" cutomer as well - or maybe I expect too much.
As far as the voucher to purchase something, it would be like getting a free drinks voucher when your in the dessert.
As you most of you probably say - just put it down to experience, but something should be made clear or explained about the lack of food or milk for this age of children who are just starting to eat solids and I bet not many new parents taking a baby / toddler abroad realise you just simply cant buy milk or food.
Final note, I received a standard email today acknowledging me with the usual - "we have a high volume...... and it could take upto 9 weeks to respond"
What ever happened to looking after your customers.
Anyway
If I get any sort of response, for those who have been kind enough to offer your view, I will re-post
Thank you all again for your views, and hope anyone reading this with toddlers around this age will be able to be well prepared - just in case
thank you all again
regards
And just to respond to a couple of points
In Tenerife airport other than a burger King and Unit selling pizza's by the by the time we got through check in, the place was basically like a ghost town ( except the bar was open till 11 - so if we wanted beer crisps or nuts we would have been OK)
Just on the point about babies, this seems to be a bit of a grey area.
There is a point where babies eating moves to solids and Im sorry Pippa you just cant shove a biscuit in their mouth and expect them to eat it.We did have enough food and milk for about 6 or 7 hours because thats we we expected.
We were NOT wanting anything for free, I just thought that in this day and age you could purchase some milk or packet infant food in the airport or on the plane - they sell everything else beer, crisps, chocolate etc - would it cause any hardship to have few pints of milk or packet of toddler food available - knowing that they had a "baby" cutomer as well - or maybe I expect too much.
As far as the voucher to purchase something, it would be like getting a free drinks voucher when your in the dessert.
As you most of you probably say - just put it down to experience, but something should be made clear or explained about the lack of food or milk for this age of children who are just starting to eat solids and I bet not many new parents taking a baby / toddler abroad realise you just simply cant buy milk or food.
Final note, I received a standard email today acknowledging me with the usual - "we have a high volume...... and it could take upto 9 weeks to respond"
What ever happened to looking after your customers.
Anyway
If I get any sort of response, for those who have been kind enough to offer your view, I will re-post
Thank you all again for your views, and hope anyone reading this with toddlers around this age will be able to be well prepared - just in case
thank you all again
regards
As you most of you probably say - just put it down to experience, but something should be made clear or explained about the lack of food or milk for this age of children who are just starting to eat solids and I bet not many new parents taking a baby / toddler abroad realise you just simply cant buy milk or food.
I think you really do have to put this down to experience and in future bear in mind that in other countries there are different norms and expectations of what children will or should be eating and drinking. The idea that an 18 month old toddler wouldn't be eating the same food as an adult would seem very strange to most Spaniards who would probably simply feed a toddler mashed up food off their own plate in these circumstances. Just as they find it very strange that we feed kids fish fingers rather than just giving them a small portion of fish. In the end, if you have a child, or any family member, who doesn't eat what is considered 'normal' food in the country you are visiting then you just have to make sure that you do carry with you sufficent supplies of whatever they will eat.
SM
I agree with the previous poster - why didn't your wife leave with the baby and wait for your aoutside while you coollected the luggage. Also, five hours isn't much of a wait.
Most bars, especially in that region, serve milky cocktails? Perhaps, as a parent, you should have adequate supplies of extra food for your baby in case this sort of thing happens. Even powdered milk?
Most bars, especially in that region, serve milky cocktails? Perhaps, as a parent, you should have adequate supplies of extra food for your baby in case this sort of thing happens. Even powdered milk?
Welcome to the forums Rosie77 
This is an old post Rosie I don't think the original poster has been back since.
This is an old post Rosie I don't think the original poster has been back since.
Hopefully anybody who reads this post will now realise that airlines/airports do not take responsibility for feeding young children or babies,especially if they are carried free of charge.It is up to us,as parents to make sure that we have adequate supplies with us to cover any delays,powdered formula is , in my opinion,a very good idea,water to mix with it is available just about everywhere,most infants will even accept it at room temperature,my son preferred it that way when we were abroad.
rosie 77 are you in the real world.??? 5 hours is not much of a wait.....
Hi John Doe,
Yes, I am in the real world. I'm a travel journalist so fly a lot and whereas most flights leave on time five hours isn't really much of a wait for a long haul flight or even a continental one, expecially in the current aviation environment.
If i travelled with a young child I would sure as hell carry enough food for at least two extra meals, This person is obviously very naive and perhaps should not be travelling with the responsibility of dependents.
Yes, I am in the real world. I'm a travel journalist so fly a lot and whereas most flights leave on time five hours isn't really much of a wait for a long haul flight or even a continental one, expecially in the current aviation environment.
If i travelled with a young child I would sure as hell carry enough food for at least two extra meals, This person is obviously very naive and perhaps should not be travelling with the responsibility of dependents.
hi all....dont think you have children rosie77.....one hour with children is like three on your own....especially 2 under 5yrs old....on your own you can prop up the bar and chill out...even have a doze...not so with children to look after....I have raised 4 children and speak from experience..
but my 18mnth olds ate most of what we ate except for chewy meat....and drank juice water and milkshake which I could imagine would be available.....
but my 18mnth olds ate most of what we ate except for chewy meat....and drank juice water and milkshake which I could imagine would be available.....
then .... dont take your kids flying at all. I wouldn't on a long haul - not by myself.
rossie77...you say you are a travel journalist....thought journalists were supposed to be open minded and unbiased.....probably you are yet to gain experience or you would have realised that there are children traveling with their parents every day...worldwide....for many reasons....children cant be left in kennels everytime parents want to travel....children is how the human race is guaranteed to continue...it is a fct of life....children are everywhere and so they will also be found with parents on planes and in airports ect....you obviously seem in an arguementive mood tonight ...but please dont use this forum to air your feelings as that is not what we use our membership for
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