I stand corrected they were sold again holding company named changed again but are still owned by German compaines

TC may be HQ'd in England and listed on LSE (if you feel confident you could buy some shares as well) but there's a lot of German money involved and if they ever manage to make a profit that's where it will go. What's more likely is that they will cut back in the UK and concentrate on the German and Scandinavien operations which are much healthier.

What's more likely is that they will cut back in the UK and concentrate on the German and Scandinavien operations which are much healthier.

So we will be left with just the one main package holiday company. Am I and Pargaluva the only ones that think this will be bad for affordable holidays?

I think that Thomas Cook are going to have to either increase the cost of their holidays, or at least stop heavily discounting and undercutting. Maybe if they had been doing this for the past few years, they might not be in such a bad position. So could we see more of a parity in the prices of TUI and TC holidays? In that case perhaps there would be more importance attached to customer service and delivering a good product that sells itself, rather than the cheap is best attitude?

People will always have their preferred tour operators/airlines but from what I've read over the last couple of weeks, and am still reading, people have been booking TC because of the price. Some of next year's prices are apparently up on last year. One comment was that a 14 night trip to Cuba was going to cost £120 pp more than this year, and they won't book until the price comes down!

Could it be that we are going to have to get used to the idea that holidays are going to start costing more, no matter who we travel with?

Shirley -don't forget Cosmos - Joe asked whether the low cost airlines would take slots over from TC, almost certainly not, wrong market. But if TC left the market would Cosmos expand a little - possibly.

I agree with Sunaddict. You have to get used to is the idea that really cheap, fully organised and protected package holidays can't go on for ever. The companies can't survive. Either prices go up or there will be a big collapse that will put huge strain on ATOL and ABTA bonds which will undermine the market.

there are basically three ways to go:

1) the protected package holiday you are used to - but costing more

2) a protected package holiday at the price you are used to - but not as good with cheaper components

3) something like the holiday you are used to at that price - but only after a LOT of DIY legwork by yourself and without full protection

scope for option 2 is limited, you can't make charter flights much cheaper (especially with APD going up) and there's only a certain amount of accomodation that can be used for the bulk package market.

I don't think putting prices up is the answer as people that are buying at the lower end of the market (myself included) wouldn't be able to afford to book them or at least would have to cut down on the amount booked, which won't help the industry either.It seems to be a no win situation really.

Thomson are a lot more expensive not slightly, so If TC increase their prices to Thomson levels and no other company replaces the cheaper holiday market, I think diy will be the only way to go.

What about Easyjet and Jet2. I haven't looked at either for quite a while but they used to be quite reasonable?
Or get an agent that holds an Atol to package one for you. Quite often they are cheaper.

Over the last few years we have lost many independent operators because of the economy. Costs have risen and the often good holidays sold by theindependents but undercutting the big TOs are no longer there.
Thos Cook did themselves no favours when they decided they wanted to take the Co-op under their wing. Big is not as beautiful as some might think. The takeovers have been financed with borrowings and as with the country the bills have now to be paid.
Personally, as a user of both Thomson and Thos Cook, I have had more problems with the latter.
Thomson are no safer from the credit crunch - they also sell holidays in other European countries and according to some reports the problems with Egypt and Tunisia have hit both companies with their continental sales as well as the UK.
For the present I think that Thos Cook will continue but I can see a major shake up in the travel industry - I think we are likely to see both operators pulling out of destinations that are not profitable and prices rising across the board.
I also doubt that carriers such as Easyjet, Jet2 and Ryanair will rush in to fill the gap. Yes they will tinker with it but the infrastructure costs that apply to operating like the big two will make them think twice.

fwh

fwh wrote:

For the present I think that Thos Cook will continue but I can see a major shake up in the travel industry - I think we are likely to see both operators pulling out of destinations that are not profitable and prices rising across the board.
I also doubt that carriers such as Easyjet, Jet2 and Ryanair will rush in to fill the gap. Yes they will tinker with it but the infrastructure costs that apply to operating like the big two will make them think twice.

Thomas cook for no reason, pulled out from Cattolica 3yrs ago, no reason was given, this is a nice family resort, and does attract many uk holiday makers

Now after Thomas cook pulled, other airlines filled in the gap, easy jet and ryanair would fly to Rimini, and between them 6 flights per week going into Rimini, but with times being hard, and competition, easy jet pulled there flights just leaving ryan air

I went diy last year, ryanair not a issue, flights very reasonable, and hotel booked directly with owner, and agreed £500 for 2 weeks full board+single room, and the holiday was well worth the money, on the other hand THomas cook were asking £780 for half board, in 2013 this is where I will be heading back for my holidays

Thomson are a lot more expensive not slightly, so If TC increase their prices to Thomson levels

I believe that the UK Travel business went in a horribly wrong direction way back in 2007, when the big mergers of Thomson/First Choice and Thomas Cook/MyTravel happened.
It's now even dafter with Thomas Cook grabbing Coop Travel also, and both of the German Giants keeping multiple shop fronts in most UK towns to give the illusion that competition still exists. The wasted costs of those duplicated shop fronts selling identical product must be huge, and bad news has to come soon with closures for efficiency cost savings.

TUI - Thomson/FC - seem apparently winning the battle for now, making profits and allowing their prices to wander ever upwards, while the Thomas Cook empire is in deep trouble, now trying just to compete by offering massive discounts over the TUI rival.
Shirleyh is dead right - TC is way cheaper than TUI on most packages.

Cosmos/Monarch seems content with a niche market in the south of the UK, and the smaller firms like Olympic have trouble buying their package flight elements.

The mergers should NOT have been allowed, they were NOT in the public interest.
And that's now becoming very plain.

The wasted costs of those duplicated shop fronts selling identical product must be huge

Infrastructure! - That is the biggest cost for any company. You can only cut your number of workers so far and high street rents are very high. Call centres can be based out of town although TC has one in the middle of Bradford. Not everyone wants to - or is able to use the internet. I use the Thomson shop locally having done my research and it costs no more. The staff are friendly and do try hard to help. Would it bother me if it was not in the middle of town? No I would actually prefer it if it was not.
I think we shall see a big drop in the number of shops we have two TC shops within a hundred yards of each other. so would expect them to close one - that is if they are really serious about cutting costs.

fwh

I live in a small town. On the main street, in a space of no more than 150m we have 4 travel agents, Thomsons, Co-op, Going Places and Thomas Cook. Thomsons and TC are across the road from each other. Co-op and Going Places are more or less across the road from each other. The last independent we had closed earlier this year. There is a lot of unemployment in the area and not of lot of money. Heaven knows how they can all be profitable!

Apart from Thomson,Thomas Cook and First Choice travel agents in our town we also have 3 Independent ones.
Richard Wallace,Dawson and Sanderson and Hays which are the UKs largest Independent travel agents.
Whilst most of my holidays over the last few years have been with Thomas Cook because of their prices my 3 holidays this year have been with Thomson,one used a Thomas Cook flight.
I will be shopping around for the best deal if prices rise next year.

Thomas Cook management needs to be cleared out the whole product looked at.Maybe you will see Jet2 Holidays become stronger in the market,but as i posted earlier the good old package holiday is on its way out and as in any walk of life only the strong well managed will survive and at the moment that is not Thomas Cook.
Where is the capitol coming from to replace an old worn out fleet of aircraft?? Our flight to Sharm this year the aircraft was scruffy and cabin crew just going through the motions sorry to say Thomson Fly are much the same is this a German thing??? Give the Britsh arm poor service but keep the top service for the German market.

Thomas Cook for no reason, pulled out from Cattolica

- they had a good reason, very little demand. Italy is not a mass market destination from the UK. You don't have to look hard for proof, just go to the Italian board and see how few enquiries we get - and even fewer answers! Joe and I seem to be the only regular visitors to Italy and I don't go to that part! TC need routes that can fill themselves without anyone making any effort to sell. The simple airlines can run that type of route by using different markets - holidaymakers, business travel, people visiting relatives and most important, people who live there coming to the UK for the same reasons- so it's easier to find the passengers.

As for competing shops - I thought Going Places had all been rebranded TC since that takeover. I've got 2 TC within 1 minute walk of each other, 1 of which is ex GP and next door to a Co-Op Travel shop. The latter pair are cramped and have little promotion space, unlike the original bigger TC shop - which ironically is due for demolition in a redevelopment scheme! Logically all 3 should be closed and replaced by one good one - meanwhile TUI have one, good sized shop round the corner!

Our's is definately still Going Places. In the city a few miles away, they have a Going Places and a Thomas Cook across from each other as well!!

so not only are they duplicating shops but there may be duplicate management chains beyond the shops. Brilliant! And the banks are happy to lend them money, is it any wonder they get into trouble!!

I live in fairly medium size town.
Previously we had three independent Travel Agents, now down to one, since two went to the wall.

BUT - we do have a large Thomson shop AND a First Choice shop - they actually face each other across the street!
AND - we have a Thomas Cook shop, AND we have a large MyTravel shop.
If you look inside these stores you see racks of brochures, and agents sitting at computer terminals,
- but not often many customers.

Thomas Cook confirms 200 shops will close

Thomas Cook has confirmed reports that it is to close 200 shops in its results announced today.

The operator also plans to improve its websites with the hope of increasing its share of UK online bookings from the current 25% to 40-50%.

Financial results showed a pre-tax loss of £398m at the year end compared to a profit of £42m in 2010.

The number of aircraft are to be reduced from 41 to 35 - primarily in long haul.

Paperless tickets, retail and call centre staff rostering and reduction in brochure wastage will all be used in an attempt to reduce costs.

The operator said the phased closure of the 200 shops (see previous story 22 Nov) would take place over the next two years and that other shops would be reviewed as their leases came up for renewal.

Sam Weihagen, Group Chief Executive, Thomas Cook Group plc said:

"This has been a very challenging year for the Group, despite which we still delivered an underlying operating profit of over £300m. We have instigated significant management changes and implemented a turnaround plan in the UK to address our areas of underperformance.

"We continue to take action to substantially strengthen the balance sheet and the Board is undertaking a full strategic review. I am confident that these changes will improve profitability and build a stable foundation from which to rebuild shareholder value.

"Customers have been very supportive in recent weeks and are continuing to book with Thomas Cook. Bookings outside the UK were broadly unaffected by news of our refinancing and in the UK bookings have recovered well.

"For over 170 years Thomas Cook has provided customers with fantastic holiday experiences and we will continue to do so."

With permission from Travelmole