We flew with Thomson in November to Cancun. Our flight from Gatwick was an hour late as our original plane was somewhere in the Caribbean with a technical fault. About 15/20 mins into our flight it was announced that this plane had an hydraulic fault and could not continue on to Cancun. We could not go back to Gatwick so we would land in Manchester. While flying round dumping excess fuel to enable us to land safely we experienced a sudden drop which terrified most of the passengers. It took another 15 mins or so for the crew to announce the drop was due to turbulence and not the fault, as we had not experienced any turbulence before or after the drop I have my doubts, as we were informed that the fault was with the auto-pilot hydraulics. We were kept on the plane after landing at one end of the runway while fire crews checked it over, I think most passengers would rather have got off. We were eventually put up in hotels, given lunch, dinner and vouchers for breakfast. Thomson told us to claim of our insurance for the delay as it was under 24 hrs. This we did after the first letter to them, but we were told to go back to Thomson to claim for the loss of a days holiday, holiday pay and the trauma caused by the flight. Which we had asked for in the original letter, but Thomson keep referring to the payment for the delay only, in the three subsequent letters sent to us. They are either not reading our letters or are hoping that we will just go away. This is not going to happen as a letter posted to them today is yet again to seek compensation and also to inform them that we are starting proceedings through the small claims court.
P.s.: If anyone else reading this was on the flight and are having problems with Thomson we would like to here from you.
I guess that because this was classified as an emergency landing the emergency services were in attendance and would rather be cautious and check things through rather than take risks.
From what you have written, Thomson provided you with meals and accommodation.
Given that the departure delay was over 12 hours, you would have had a right to cancel your holiday and get a full refund plus a small bit of monerary compensation (£40 per person) from Thomson. Was you aware of this?
Given that you continued with the holiday, it would be right for you to claim from the insurance Company.
Mark
From what you have written, Thomson provided you with meals and accommodation.
Given that the departure delay was over 12 hours, you would have had a right to cancel your holiday and get a full refund plus a small bit of monerary compensation (£40 per person) from Thomson. Was you aware of this?
Given that you continued with the holiday, it would be right for you to claim from the insurance Company.
Mark
Whilst I don t deny that the flight was not a very pleasant experience, why do you feel the need to ask for or want compensation for the trauma and holiday pay ????
Whilst you may have a case for the loss of one days holiday , Thomson are right in sending you to the insurance company to claim this back .
Without wanting to sound harsh or rude , the request for compensation for the trauma for the flight the very fact that you continued with the holiday on a flight less than 24 hours later , would indicate that you were not that traumatised ??? And where does the loss of holiday pay come from , how can that be Thomsons fault ? Thomson provided for you with accom, food and drink whilst you were delayed so they did all that they are required to do in these circumstances , so I m pretty sure you will not get any where with this in small claims court .
Whilst you may have a case for the loss of one days holiday , Thomson are right in sending you to the insurance company to claim this back .
Without wanting to sound harsh or rude , the request for compensation for the trauma for the flight the very fact that you continued with the holiday on a flight less than 24 hours later , would indicate that you were not that traumatised ??? And where does the loss of holiday pay come from , how can that be Thomsons fault ? Thomson provided for you with accom, food and drink whilst you were delayed so they did all that they are required to do in these circumstances , so I m pretty sure you will not get any where with this in small claims court .
Mark
I didn't think a 12 hour+ delay was covered by a refund plus comp. I thought that was for changes before the holiday commenced? I know you can usually claim off your insurance for cancellation if the delay is over 12 hours. Also after 5 hours you can cancel your holiday, but you are only entitled to the air element to be refunded.
smithray
I can understand your frustration but I don't really think you can claim for holiday pay! As kerry says, you continued your holiday so I can't see a trauma claim going anywhere either. You can try to claim for the loss of a days holiday but I really think that realistically that is probably all you are going to get. Don't forget when working out how much a day is worth, to deduct the cost of your flights before your calculation.
Your insurance company should pay out for the delay and whether you can claim off them for anything else will depend on what's covered on your policy. I presume you have a delay letter from Thomsons to send to your insurers? If the insurance are sending you back to the airline they are fobbing you off.
I didn't think a 12 hour+ delay was covered by a refund plus comp. I thought that was for changes before the holiday commenced? I know you can usually claim off your insurance for cancellation if the delay is over 12 hours. Also after 5 hours you can cancel your holiday, but you are only entitled to the air element to be refunded.
smithray
I can understand your frustration but I don't really think you can claim for holiday pay! As kerry says, you continued your holiday so I can't see a trauma claim going anywhere either. You can try to claim for the loss of a days holiday but I really think that realistically that is probably all you are going to get. Don't forget when working out how much a day is worth, to deduct the cost of your flights before your calculation.
Your insurance company should pay out for the delay and whether you can claim off them for anything else will depend on what's covered on your policy. I presume you have a delay letter from Thomsons to send to your insurers? If the insurance are sending you back to the airline they are fobbing you off.
We lost 23 hours of our holiday to Dom Rep last year when the Thomson plane was recalled & forced to turn back to Gatwick after we were ~ 3 hours out over the Atlantic. A tyre had apparently blown on take off and could have possibly damaged the undercarriage !!
After they ascertained that it was too late to continue to DR (Airport would be closed) we got food and a hotel for the night ....then continued the holiday the following morning just missing the 24 hour delay!! We complained on return to Thomson (about the appalling Customer Disservices we got on return to Gatwick amongst other things) and also put in a claim for the delay with the insurance company. We got a pittance from the insurance company (£35 each) and despite repeated attempts......absolutely s*d all from Thomson ,who kept telling us that they had done everything required under the EC rules. They wouldn't even offer us a gesture of a discount on this year's holiday.
Be prepared for a long drawn out affair. Not sure that you have sufficient grounds for a small claims action;after all you still went on the holiday.
After they ascertained that it was too late to continue to DR (Airport would be closed) we got food and a hotel for the night ....then continued the holiday the following morning just missing the 24 hour delay!! We complained on return to Thomson (about the appalling Customer Disservices we got on return to Gatwick amongst other things) and also put in a claim for the delay with the insurance company. We got a pittance from the insurance company (£35 each) and despite repeated attempts......absolutely s*d all from Thomson ,who kept telling us that they had done everything required under the EC rules. They wouldn't even offer us a gesture of a discount on this year's holiday.
Be prepared for a long drawn out affair. Not sure that you have sufficient grounds for a small claims action;after all you still went on the holiday.
Further, in the current parlous state of the travel industry (holiday to Tunisia or Egypt anyone??) and with the losses they incurred with last year's ash cloud - can't see them offering anything at all at the moment!
Smithray,
The first priority for the crew when an aircraft has a problem is to fly the aircraft. They would almost certainly be having a multi way conversation with air traffic, their flight operations and engineers. Once a plan had been agreed you would have been informed. Clear air turbulence can, by its very nature, be unexpected but is usually a non event. In my years of flying I only experienced severe clear air turbulence on about three or four occasions and I also witnessed several cabin crew members being stretchered off an AA flight after they had encountered severe turbulence. When a precautionary diversion is carried out it is routine for the emergency services to stand by just in case. Depending on which system(s) had failed the approach may have been made at a higher speed with a greater risk of tyre burst so a sensible precaution.
Must admit the whole thing seems a bit of an (inconvenient) non event.
The first priority for the crew when an aircraft has a problem is to fly the aircraft. They would almost certainly be having a multi way conversation with air traffic, their flight operations and engineers. Once a plan had been agreed you would have been informed. Clear air turbulence can, by its very nature, be unexpected but is usually a non event. In my years of flying I only experienced severe clear air turbulence on about three or four occasions and I also witnessed several cabin crew members being stretchered off an AA flight after they had encountered severe turbulence. When a precautionary diversion is carried out it is routine for the emergency services to stand by just in case. Depending on which system(s) had failed the approach may have been made at a higher speed with a greater risk of tyre burst so a sensible precaution.
Must admit the whole thing seems a bit of an (inconvenient) non event.
The first priority for the crew when an aircraft has a problem is to fly the aircraft. They would almost certainly be having a multi way conversation with air traffic, their flight operations and engineers. Once a plan had been agreed you would have been informed. Clear air turbulence can, by its very nature, be unexpected but is usually a non event. In my years of flying I only experienced severe clear air turbulence on about three or four occasions and I also witnessed several cabin crew members being stretchered off an AA flight after they had encountered severe turbulence. When a precautionary diversion is carried out it is routine for the emergency services to stand by just in case. Depending on which system(s) had failed the approach may have been made at a higher speed with a greater risk of tyre burst so a sensible precaution.
Must admit this is the best answer i have seen in a long time
Todays culture is to claim compensation for the least bit of inconvenience.
Todays culture is to claim compensation for the least bit of inconvenience.
A LITTLE bit unfair - think losing a day of your holiday AND being stuck at an airport for an extra night is more than a bit inconvenient!
- standard Tour Operator policy to most letters!or are hoping that we will just go away
Legal action for trauma would founder if you continued with the holiday - their solicitor would simply say you can't have been that traumatised if you got back on next day. Worried is a genuine complaint but not one that would be worth chasing.
But losing a lump of the holiday due to a fault with their aircraft is a genuine complaint - when you paid for 14 nights in Cancun that's what you wanted, not 13 and one in Manchester! Not sure about the holiday pay issue, I can see the point - you used a days holiday to waste in Manchester - but it might be easier to pile it on missing Cancun night claim rather than try to itemise things.
as i see it you probably have a good claim for 1 nights holiday lost from the tour operator -1/14 of the cost of the holiday. this was established ages ago by ROS the previous solicitor who advised HT members.
i think you would lose any case for trauma as you did fly, and unless you raised your concerns in writing at the time i think this is a no-go for compensation.
you were probably entitled to cancel your holiday after a 12 hour delay -look at your T&Cs - but unless you raised this at the time i think any compensation for this will fail also.
so, you can claim for the delay from your insurance company and for the lost day from your TO but i think that is your lot.
i think you have to be realistic in your expectations and although you did have a bad experience on the way out you no doubt had a good holiday for the rest of your time.
any method of transport carries some risk, and you would (probably) never think to claim off someones car insurance if they slammed on the brakes to avoid an accident. you experienced something similar -scary i know- but in airline travel probably the equivalent.
i think you would lose any case for trauma as you did fly, and unless you raised your concerns in writing at the time i think this is a no-go for compensation.
you were probably entitled to cancel your holiday after a 12 hour delay -look at your T&Cs - but unless you raised this at the time i think any compensation for this will fail also.
so, you can claim for the delay from your insurance company and for the lost day from your TO but i think that is your lot.
i think you have to be realistic in your expectations and although you did have a bad experience on the way out you no doubt had a good holiday for the rest of your time.
any method of transport carries some risk, and you would (probably) never think to claim off someones car insurance if they slammed on the brakes to avoid an accident. you experienced something similar -scary i know- but in airline travel probably the equivalent.
I think Jim is right you probably have a good claim for 1 nights loss of holiday.
The Tour Operators main game plan is just to hope people will give up and go away and not persue genuine claims.
The odds are stacked in their favor as they have 28 days to do an inital response and that is often 'yes we have got your letter and we are looking in to it " by then most people have been back for a couple of months and are getting fed up with how slowly things are moving.
If its a minor complaint people just drop it, so the TO gets away with the odd 100 quid they would have had to repay, but it all adds up and in their favor.
When people are thousands out of pocket they tend to have to persue through a travel solicitor to get anywhere.
The Tour Operators main game plan is just to hope people will give up and go away and not persue genuine claims.
The odds are stacked in their favor as they have 28 days to do an inital response and that is often 'yes we have got your letter and we are looking in to it " by then most people have been back for a couple of months and are getting fed up with how slowly things are moving.
If its a minor complaint people just drop it, so the TO gets away with the odd 100 quid they would have had to repay, but it all adds up and in their favor.
When people are thousands out of pocket they tend to have to persue through a travel solicitor to get anywhere.
I exchanged letters with them for 6 months from March til October last year ....but never got anything offered- finally I gave up because any financial gain I might make could not pay for the time/postage I'd already wasted!!!I suppose the only way I "COULD GET THEM BACK" is by withdrawing my custom....but there is so little choice of holiday carrier to more distant destinations now that I felt it would be cutting my nose off to spite my face!! 
Thanks for all your replies, must agree with most of you. As for the trauma at the time it was very real, but most people were of the opinion, as were we, that had we not got back on the plane we may never have flown again. According to Thomson we could only claim or cancel if the delay was more than 24 hrs.
Next time you'll know that after a delay in excess of 5 hours, you have the option of a refund according to Article 6.1(c)(iii) of Regulation EC 261/2004: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32004R0261:EN:HTML
Print a copy and take it with you every time you fly.
Print a copy and take it with you every time you fly.
Next time you'll know that after a delay in excess of 5 hours, you have the option of a refund according to Article 6.1(c)(iii) of Regulation EC 261/2004: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 61:EN:HTML
You have as I pointed out in an earlier post, but aren't you only entitled to the cost of the flight, not the accommodation.
The 261 rules were intended for just flights not packages. Some bits are useful but others are better covered by Package rules adn old fashioned contract law. In this case the package was supposed to be 14 nights (we assume) in Cancun but because they failed to supply a servicable aircraft over 7% of the holiday was lost. On a 10 night holiday it would have been 10%. Say you paid for a delivery of something but they didn't bring 10% of it because of a fault with their van, you want that bit refunded.
As the aircraft was fit for service when it departed compensation (or not) would probably come under "events outside their control". Reflecting on the original post the "jolt" was probably nothing more than passing through the wake of another aircraft, a fairly regular occurrence especially in busy airspace.
As the aircraft was fit for service when it departed compensation (or not) would probably come under "events outside their control".
Technical defects typically do not come under 'events outside their control' with respect to Regulation EC 261/2004 following the Wallentin-Hermann judgement: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:62007J0549:EN:HTML.
A number of decisions have been made in the National courts in the passengers' favour which have followed the judgement in circumstances where technical issues were cited as the reason for a cancellation or delay.
So you turn the lights of your car on and one of them suddenly fails. It happens no matter whether you serviced the car one year ago or just yesterday. Same with airplanes. They are good to go, something then unexpectedly fails and for the safety of everybody the person in charge of the plane decides to land it instead of potentially risking a disaster by carrying on flying.
The time will come if those seeking compensation and are using this EC rule persist doing so, that airlines will take unnecessary risk by just carrying on when they really shouldn't with all the risks involved.
With all means, claim compensation if the airline is totally at fault but now to encourage people to start claiming compensation for a perfect servicable plane to take off and then having a malfunction The pilot and crew should be awared for spotting it and putting it to the ground safely rather than being penalised for it!
Mark
The time will come if those seeking compensation and are using this EC rule persist doing so, that airlines will take unnecessary risk by just carrying on when they really shouldn't with all the risks involved.
With all means, claim compensation if the airline is totally at fault but now to encourage people to start claiming compensation for a perfect servicable plane to take off and then having a malfunction
The pilot and crew should be awared for spotting it and putting it to the ground safely rather than being penalised for it!Mark
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