I saw that programme too.I was surprised that the ex pats are not elegible for NHS treatment in certain cases.

We are moving to Tenerife in April and are under retirement age.I have done extensive research into what we need to do regarding all aspects of our move. There is no NHS in Spain so Private Medical Insurance is a must if you are under retirement age and will not be working. If you are working out there and paying into their system or are still in receipt of a benefit that you was receiving in the UK i.e. Disability, you will then be eligible for the same care that Spanish Nationals receive, (only one member of the family needs to be paying into the system or receiving benefit for the whole family to receive medical care). Whilst some of the stories on this programme were sad in the fact that their dream life had been ruined, I feel that they should have done a bit more research into such important matters before moving. Other Countries are not as stupid as the UK and will not treat every Tom, Dick or Harry that turns up on their doorstep, and when you think about it why should they when you have not paid anything towards that treatment. You saw from the programme last night the even British Nationals are unable to receive medical treatment in the UK once they have lived abroad for three months. This is totally wrong, as one gentleman on the programme said, he is still a British National with a British Passport who happens to live in Spain. If the UK took the same stance on NHS treatment for people that travel here because they know their treatment will be free to them, even though they are not British Nationals then our services would not be in the state they are today. It just really annoys me when there are British Nationals still living in this country, who have paid into the system all their life and can't get the drugs/treatment they need because it is not 'cost effective'. If this Country had it's priorities right in the first place there would not be so many Ex-pats.

Sorry for being a bit heavy there but the state of this Country and the way it treats it's own people compared to people who move here is one of the main reasons that I will soon be an Ex-pat.

Regards Jackie

Hear hear.
But you have to remember that some people want the best of both worlds.
They go and live in Spain and do not register as a permanent resident and take up Spanish citizenship, but the local towns and areas are given a budget by the Central Government in Madrid to cover the number of residents in each province.

What has been happening is EG: Denia on the Costa Blanca has 20, 000 official residents who have Spanish Nationality, some of them may be Brits that work and pay into the system....fine
The reality is, that Denia has 40,000 residents who are "pulling" on the local services, so Denia will not be able to cope and will always be under funded by Central Government. (those numers are fictitious).

Benidorm has a permanent residence of 65,000 citizens (fact) but, can have up to 3+ million people at one given time in the town, who use the toilet, create rubbish, fall down and break a leg, need an ambulance and emergency care, etc etc etc, but they are funded for the 65,000 residents.
The emergency care is covered by the EHIC card, but why should Spain treat you for anything that comes after the emergency care.? You've not paid into their system and some people won't even take up Spanish citizenship....well. we'd all like to do that, have the sun, sea and sangria but taken little Britain and her benefits with us.

If you live in Spain, then surely you want to integrate and become a Spanish Citizen,? you may still be British by birth and hold a British passport, but you can't expect the benefits of both countries, afterall it is your choice to leave this Island, nobody has made you go.
Some of you moan about the immigrants that come here and isolate themselves in their own communities, never attempting to speak the language etc etc.
Isn't that exactly what some Brits do in Spain.? Do you ever think that the Spanish are as pig sick of the Brits as we are of the immigrants.?

Oh, but we are BRITISH so that's different....is it.?

For the people who go to Spain without private medical care and without making absolutely certain that the care covers all unforseen events, then
some of them deserve all they get.
They are like the people who don't take out holiday insurance or hire a safe...it's never going to happen to them, that's their attitude, but they come bleating to Britain when things go wrong.

But, hey ho...me and the hubby officially retire in a matter of months and will qualify for treatment under the Spanish State system.
The Spanish State Health system is now classed as the 9th in the world...the NHS has now slipped to the 19th position but that should not be interpreted that our NHS is rubbish, because it is not. It is under strain that I won't deny, but Spain's system works different to ours and the programme highlighted a very worrying fact that some people overlook.

Spain has some excellent hospitals that would put some of ours to shame, but it has no form of "after care" like speach therapists, physiotherapists, District Nurses, Occupational therapists etc etc.....and that is where it fails.

Sanji x

I agree with Sanj. People want the best of both worlds. People should do their research properly before they go. If you turn your back on England because you beleive it is no longer the place it was for whatever reason you should integrate into the society you join. Learn the language before you go and make sure you can converse in it.

One of the scaryiest experiences of my life was being in a Portugese NHS hospital with my 3 year old when he had swallowed a 100 Escudo coin and it was lodged in his throat. I didn't have a clue what was happening and that was on a fortnights holiday. I just had to trust people.

The other thing the programme conveniently ommitted to mention is that most people whole emigrate tend make a killing on the property market selling a 180,000K propery and buying something for 90,000K for example.

Surely in that hiatus when they are not working and before age 60 when the state benefits kick in, even if they haven't had the intelligence to take out Health insurance, if they are unfortunate enough to fall ill, could they not just pay for their treatment from their profit out of the UK property market.

Well said Sanji.

People who are just holidaying abroad pull out all the stops to find out what the hotel they have booked into is like, where they can get an English meal when there and what are the best pubs. It is a shame that people MOVING to other countries just see it as 'their dream' and don't find out information on the important things like needing medical care or hospitalization.

Also regarding integration. I whole heartedly agree with what you say about not learning the language etc of the country that you live in and that is why we have chosen to move to an area of Tenerife that is not in the middle of any ex-pat communities. Although there are a few English people in the area it is mainly a Spanish town so we will have to learn the language to integrate and basically survive day to day.

Regards Jackie

Regards

Hi jackie

I definately think learning the language is one of the major factors in it turning out well. When my parents bought their place in southern spain, which was just for holidays and no intention of ever leaving the UK. They still both joined Spanish evening classes, they were 52 at the time and my Mum (god rest her) was not the most academic of souls, but they did well at it. If they could do it I'm sure most could.

I am an British citizen living in Germany and have done for the past 36years and although I agree with a lot of the statements in previous posts I have no intention of giving up my British Citizenship, why should I?
I pay my taxes, health insurance and have integrated into german society, but I remain British with values and outlook on life at times quite different to most Germans. As a EU citizen I am entitled to the same benefits as a German and the only plus I would get from changing would be the dubious pleasure of being able to vote in national elections. If I move to Spain or any other country I would try and integrate,pay for insurance etc., but wouldn`t take Spanish nationality.
Most people move abroad for a better life and this does not mean taking a new nationality, and within the EU we have that right. IMO The answer to the underfunding in most Spanish Towns is to insist that people living there register as residents.
I agree the Spanish are sick of the British(and other Europeans) being a drain on their resources but they are still happy to take their money by constructing the neverending housing developments.

I agree the Spanish are sick of the British(and other Europeans) being a drain on their resources but they are still happy to take their money by constructing the neverending housing developments

Not exactly Judith.
The construction industry creates jobs that keeps the economy healthy, but it has come at a price, and a price that the Spanish are now in the process of stopping or dramatically reducing.
A high percentage of the corruption that occurs in Spain is associated to the building industry....money laundering and illegal land grab.

The thirst for homes in the sun has made the housing market go through the roof, but if you speak to a typical young Spanish married couple, then they would curse the day that these homes were ever built.

They now have absolutely no chance of ever getting on the property ladder, unless they have inherited property from their parents, and whilst the property prices have risen, their basic wages have not kept in line with inflation and the introduction of the Euro.

Great news if you have a British wage or pension/savings, but not if you are a Spaniard deemed to live your married life in rented accomodation.

Sanji

Unfortunately it is not just Spain where young people are priced out of the housing market. I have friends living in the Lake District and they tell me lots of houses coming on the market are bought by people for weekend and holiday use with not enough property to fill the demand, resulting in a large increase in price, effectively shutting out first timers. I believe the same is true in parts of Wales, Scotland and the Dales.
The property market where I live is very stable with a relatively low increase in prices, but although I live in a large house if I sold it I would probably have problems finding even a flat of reasonable size in the UK or Spain.
Sorry for going off topic.

Hi Judith.
I think there is a subtle difference in having homes bought up in places like the Dales by wealthy fellow Brits, some of whom are MP's btw, who use these places as holiday homes, in comparison to the massive sprawling concrete jungles that have been built in Spain and bought by foreigners in their thousands"¦I don't see to many Spaniards wanting to live in the Dales love.
There is I believe, a scheme going on in these areas that was discussed in Parliament, that when these properties become available, then a percentage now have to be sold to the local residents or at least offered the local residents at " affordable prices".
What is classed as "affordable" to an MP and a "working man/woman" is debatable.
I don't know the details of the scheme, but I do know various MP's have raised this issue in Parliament in the recent past.

There is also the small detail that Spain does not have a National minimum wage like the UK, and therefore the gap between housing and personal income is far greater than the UK.
I personally, do not see the point of living in a country and paying into the adopted country's system, but at the same time not wanting to be entitled to vote and have a small influence on issues that would affect me"¦living in that country.

Same as I do not agree with anyone who chooses to leave Britain and after X amount of years and having not paid into the system for those years, think that they should still be entitled to benefits from the UK . or if they decide to come back after having the "good years" in Spain.
When immigrants come to Britain, we expect them to become British citizens and to integrate and pay into our system, they have the privilege of practising their faith and are now going to be taught "Britishness"....some of those immigrants are also from other EU countries.

I put my house up for sale and it was valued at £155,000, I live in Yorkshire in a 3 bed detached house...if my house was dismantled and rebuilt in Surrey, then you could double that asking price.
For the people who have that kind of investment in places like Surrey, then buying in Spain is affordable and a doddle.
I could only afford a "shoe box" apartment in Spain for £155,000 basically in the "back and beyond" on some ex-pat ghetto.

No thanks...each to their own and just my view.

Sanji x

While I agree with a lot of what is said here, I cannot help but feel really annoyed that Brits who have payed into the NHS all of their working lives are dropped like a hot brick for the 'crime' of wanting to live somewhere else. If you've payed into the system for most of your life you should be entitled to use it when you most need it, where you live shouldn't enter into it. I agree that the people in the programme should have checked out the situation more carefully but it's disgusting that the country they've lived in and payed taxes in all of their lives use's their decision to live somewhere they feel happy as a stick to beat them with. The money and taxes paid into the system by the unfortunate people on the programme has probably gone towards treating the countless 'health tourists' that pour into Britain every year.

I see it as a logistical problem as well though. How can you realistically be treated in an NHS hospital whilst you are in Spain etc. If you start a course of any treatment you really need to be near the hospital or facility you use. Particulary if you are very sick.

You may have appointments every other week, or each Monday or need to go to one place for blood tests and another for Xrays another for Physio etc

It's complex enough when you are resident in the UK what with Primary Care trusts and the way things are funded. If you have taken up permanent residence abroad it seems more logical and practical to be treated there. You cant keep flying back and forth for appointments, it would probably make you even more sick and stressed and would cost a fortune in airfares.

Sanji

As you said each to his own, everywhere is different. Here in Germany immigrants are not expected to take German nationality, in fact one could say it is almost discouraged and it is quite a difficult procedure. The first few years that I lived here Germany there was no way I would have been granted nationality , though now because of my long residency and fluency in the language it would be a easier for me to obtain. Over the years that I have lived here I have made many friends some among the expat comunity(in fact as much as one becomes integrated in German society most expats still like to keep in close contact with other people who have the same mother tongue) and of all these people many who have lived here as long as me only one has taken German nationality. If I were to take German nationality I would still think of myself as British and Germans would still regard me as foreign. The only benefit to me would be having the vote( which after all these years of not having it has lost it's importance to me) and not having to take out a mortgage to get my UK passport (over £100 for expats now) the German one is about 1/3rd of the price.
As to the difference between the Dales and Spain, I think you misunderstand the point I was making that because of the high prices of housing in desirable areas it is also a problem for many young people in the Uk to get a foot on the housing ladder,I realise that that is not the same as the situation in Spain, but is a fact due to the crazy property market in the UK. I also don't imagine that many Spaniards would want to live in the Dales but that is not what I said although to me the Dales are just as beautiful as most of Spain. But then I 'm not a hot weather lover, so apart from the occasional winter holiday to the Canary Islands I don't visit Spain very often these days.
I'm also not sure that immigrants to the Uk are expected to take UK citizenship but are encouraged to. I think that what is expected is that they should adhere to the laws and norms of British society and not expect that society to change to suit them.

But surely that's the choice you make when you decide that Britain isn't worth living in anymore.?

While you lived in the UK, you were educated, received free health care and benefits from the system, (if you were entitled to them).
The Government didn't ask you to go live in Spain, I'm sure they would much rather you work here and contribute into the British system.

If you leave, then you leave, and whatever contribution that you have paid into the British system, then you've already had a fair whack of it back from the Education system and the Health service alone, treating you and your family for X amount of years before you decide to emigrate.

Slightly off topic..but...
I had to go down to London just before Christmas for a very sad occasion and me and the hubby were going to book into an hotel, but an extremely kind neighbour who lived on his own, gave us the keys to his house and a bed for the night"¦he wouldn't hear of us booking into an hotel.
Anyway, we had an extremely informative conversation with him.
He is an American, who came to Britain for 5 weeks and has been here 16 years and this is now his home where he will spend the rest of his life.
He has his own business and pays extortionate rates on his business property and council tax for his home etc etc etc.

The British Customs/Immigration said to him Yes Mr XXXX you can come and live, work and pay into our system, but apart from health care, you will never be entitled to claim any other benefits.
Now some would say, at least he is getting free health care, that's more than he would get in the USA .True.
But, if he never uses the Health Service apart from visiting his GP for the occasional minor ailment and when he is old and needs a Nursing home, then the Government will make him sell his business/home to fund his care.
Then what exactly has he got for his money paying all those years in the UK?

IMO: Not a lot.!

I think that what is expected is that they should adhere to the laws and norms of British society and not expect that society to change to suit them

Yes, I would whole heartedly agree with you Judith.....
Pity some other people don't apply those ideas.
I know it's difficult for the young people in the UK, but the only way I can explain, is that it is near impossible for some young Spanish people and the property owners who rent out, they know this and fleece these people who have no council waiting list to go on, or housing associations to help them.

Anyway, we are just talking hun

Sanji x

While you lived in the UK, you were educated, received free health care and benefits from the system, (if you were entitled to them).
The Government didn't ask you to go live in Spain, I'm sure they would much rather you work here and contribute into the British system

I'm interested in finding out where I apply for the 'free healthcare and benefits' , I was under the impression that was paid for by the gaping hole in my salary every month.
No, the government didn't ask these people to go and live in Spain but neither should they penalise them for doing so. You can continue to pay into the state pension scheme while living abroad so why not into the NHS if you are not yet of retirement age? These people have paid all of thier working lives (presumably) so why not now? Spain & the UK are both supposed to be part of the EU after all.
I'm moving to the Canary Islands next year and I will be able register for healthcare, I know this because I've checked it out. I am learning Spanish but I know I will not be fluent by then but at least I will have some idea of what's going on. I am not going to live in 'a typical Spanish village' but then it's not a British enclave either. I find all of this 'turning your back on Britain' a bit of a joke really. I love Britain but I have decided I want something different. Why should I, or anyone else be penalised for this.

We seem to be way off topic now. This forum is not really one for political debate but an exchange of general information and advice. Does anyone who is living in Spain, or is has been investigating prior to moving, have any information or advice which those considering a move would find useful re healthcare in Spain?

A very interesting topic. I agree with Sanji and Judith about integrating into the local community and I would add that ex-pats should contribute to the local health service if possible (I can only speak for France).

We receive full health care here, just as the locals do, because my husband pays contributions from his wages (as do the locals) and also because his company pays into a 'Mutuelle' which pays for a third of the treatment. We also pay voluntary class 3 contributions in the UK by direct debit ......... so not all of us who have left the UK have cut our financial responsibilities to the UK schemes and as for tax .... well any UK income is added to our French tax declarations and we pay substantially more than in the UK. So, ex-pats, get informed, (preferably before you leave the UK to realise your dreams) and don't expect everything for nothing! Just MHO.

Oh and HAPPY NEW YEAR ............ here we can wish this until the very end of January without making any faux pas!

I'm interested in finding out where I apply for the 'free healthcare and benefits' , I was under the impression that was paid for by the gaping hole in my salary every month.

Yes you do pay from your salary, and the word "free" is not entirely correct.
You apply if you have children, for child benefit don't you.?
The contribution that you make which creates a gaping hole in your salary, also covers the health of your partner (if they have never worked) and your children, from the moment they are conceived.

The word "Free" has been added onto the health system and God forbid anything happen to you or your family in Spain, and you are not covered by some private health insurance, then and only then, will you realise just how "free" it was"¦especially if you are earning 900 euros a month.

Happy New Year Alsacienne.

Sorry Fiona...I'll say no more on the subject.

Sanji x

I agree with Alsacienne about paying for health care if you go to live in another country. Both my husband and I are now retired but still pay more than €400 per month between us in Germany and have to pay a fee whenever we visit the doctor. This is not income tax but an amount purely for sickness insurance , if we went to Spain we would expect to have to pay into the Spanish system. The large number of retired people going to Spain and expecting to get the same free service as in the Uk must be putting a strain on the Spanish heath care services and the system could end up the same as the UK NHS with long waiting lists. So as Alsacienne says please don't expect to get something for nothing.

My final words on the subject
Bonne Annee Alsacienne