I do disagree with taking VERY tiny tots on board (less than 12 months), simply because they are prone to suffer due to changing cabin pressures and the inability to compensate, especially if they have an element of "glue ear" or a cold, it can be a painful process

I suppose this is a personal decision for a family to make and probably a different topic. I didn't realise the impact the cabin pressure could have on infants when I first took my youngest son abroad. He was 14 months and cried from the time we were ascending after take off, almost through the entire flight (to Spain) although he was dog tired by the end. I was so embarrased but mainly felt upset and helpless as it was obvious there was something wrong. I'm not sure if it was as a result of that flight or coincidence that he's suffered ear problems ever since and he's now 24 years old. Sorry

my thoughts on the original problem are the same as most people on here; the crew/captain should have dealt with the situation better, but missing their slot was probably the most important factor to them, as it could cost the airline a lot of money to have to wait for a new take-off slot.

with regard to sitting next to kids, i am normally in an exit row seat so do not have to suffer them sat next to me but they can be behind me kicking lumps out of the back of my seat.
i have no problems with noise from babes in arms -that is what earphones/Iron Maiden are for -as they are unable to understand what is happening and ear problems can make them cry.
i do have a problem with parents who have kids that behave like brats, and i would have no hesitation in bringing the matter up with the crew if the "little darlings" were disturbing my flight. i would not speak directly to the parents/kids as this could cause more problems, but would speak to the crew and expect them to deal with the matter.the senior member of crew should be able to resolve any matters, but if not i would speak to the captain on getting off (if possible)and then report all matters to the airline.

Shirley
Funny you should mention that. We took our son, who was just under 2 on a two and half hour flight. He cried nearly all the way, and yes, it was embarrasing. I bet the poor woman sat next to us wished my son was sat on the wing seat . He had ear problems for quite a number of years after that as well. He's 24 now.

Shirley :

it can be a painful process, albeit one that won't lead to permanent damage (either mental or physical)

ATB,J.

We didn't fly with our children until the youngest was 4 and we were sure that they would behave themselves and could deal with sitting still. I couldn't bear the thought of travelling with push chairs and nappies and anyway because I was a stay at home Mum we couldn't afford it. Prior to that we had lovely holidays in UK or in France by ferry. However the little tot I had to sit next to was delightful he only cried a couple of times on the 4 hour flight but then fell asleep. I held him for a while as the mum's arms were getting numb and he was like a little angel. He was about 10 months old. The mum was sweet too and was well organised with all the things he would need. She was a bit upset by the vile pair too and apologised that I had to sit next to her which I thought was really sad as she and her baby were lovely.

Shirley :
Quote:
it can be a painful process, albeit one that won't lead to permanent damage (either mental or physical)

All I can say is that he was diagnosed with a perforated eardrum (not sure what else could have caused this) and had 2 sets of grommets and numerous ear infections over the years. At 24, I don't think his hearing is as it should be.

shirley
This is sounding rather familiar. Perforated eardrum, hearing problems - his hearing was 75% down in one ear when the specialist saw him. Said that was the reasons his speech wasn't as good as it should have been. He is still tends to be 'loud' sometimes as people who have hearing problems sometimes are.

Again over the obnoxious couple I agree with everything everyone else has said, I just wish I had been on the flight, nearby, as they would never have gotten away with this. I have a habit of speaking my mind over issues that I deam to be unfair, something my husband wishes I did not do on occasion!! But hey ho never mind.

Over the travelling with kids, I think I have been very lucky, my son has flown since he was 8 months old (only down south, when he was that young, to visit my brother) and we have never had any problems, no real crying or ear pain. I am always well prepared with lots of games, and distractions and now he is getting older (he is 6 now) he tends just to go to sleep for the whole of the flight!!. We won't be so lucky in November (with the sleeping) as we are going long haul for the first time so here's hoping he is just as well behaved.

Never having had kids and now being old enough to be a grandma (and possibly great-grandma ), I actually quite like talking to kids as long as they are well-behaved.
Brats beware, though.

I wouldn't mind being seated next to a polite child during a short (say less than 4 hour) day flight, but I'd prefer not to be during a night flight or long-haul flight, that's only because I like to sleep.
I'd probably prefer to have a child beside me than behind me kicking the back of my seat or, as happened last year on the way back from Goa (10+ hour flight) a 3 year old who insisted on standing/jumping on the tray table which was of course attached to the back of my seat.
BUT - I would never, ever behave as despicably as this couple JMK describes and sit in seats that hadn't been allocated to me.

I'd feel exactly the same if I'd asked for a window seat at check-in but when I boarded the plane it was of a spec that meant there was no window actually there! This has happened to me before.

I'd feel exactly the same if my seat didn't recline fully because of a bulk head.
I would never stoop so low as to take a seat that had been chosem AND PAID FOR by someone else.

I wonder if this 'lady (and I use the term loosely) with

her diamonds, smart clothes and elderly Sloane ranger look

is reading these posts about her and thinking 'My God, was I really such a bitch?' or is she (as JMK describes) smugly happy that she caused such distress for 2 people during the flight and such disgust on this thread.

I honestly don't think she would care as all she wanted was her own way - and stuff everybody else. I was so angry about it for a few days after but being able to have a rant on here has been fab and now I have moved on. Thanks all.

JMK
I hope the support you've received on here has also made you feel better.
Everybody agrees that you were poorly treated.

It's just a pity that me and/or Steph24 weren't on the same flight.
Regardless of how discreetly you spoke to the cabin staff, my ears would have twitched and I'd have been on it like a shot.

The elderly Sloane Ranger would have wished she'd never tried it on by the time I'd finished with her.
She would have been trying to crawl under the seat in front to hide her embarrassment.

I once did something similar to a guy on a scheduled BA flight.
We were all due to fly Britannia to Sri Lanka but the flight had been transferred to BA.
I spotted this guy on the way out complaining to the cabin crew that his seat was uncomfortable and he had a bad back so they upgraded him.
As he followed the stewardess through into Business Class, he just smirked at everyone sat around him and looked so smug.

We did a 4 day tour during our 2 week holiday and although he wasn't actually on our tour, he was obviously doing the same itinerary with another group.
Every time we turned up at a hotel, he was at reception complaining - about his room, its location, the decor, the facilities, anything.

On our return flight, he was sat near us, by this time all the people at our small hotel had made friends and were sat together in a block of seats.
He started complaining about his seat and I stood up and said 'Hey, guys. Look! It's the serial complainer from our tour. He's at it again'.

So somebody stood up and said 'If you give him an upgrade, you're going to have a riot on your hands'.

The stewardess refused him an upgrade and I later filled her in about him.

He spent the whole flight doing his best to appear invisible, amid comments like 'If you have a bad back you should PAY for an upgrade'.

Were we bullies?
Maybe.
Did he deserve it?
Absolutely'

Oh yes absolutely and thanks all for your comments it all helped as I did wonder if I was I making a fuss about nothing. There are so many awful things going on in this world that having your seat pinched is not that important. I wonder if I'll ever see her on another flight to Dalaman? That hairband and snooty face is etched in my mind. I'll be ready for her next time lol. I will post when I get a reply from TC.

What absolute appalling behaviour from people who clearly believed they should've been in the premier seats but weren't. Worse than them is the cabin crew not doing their job and having such an 'anything for a quiet life' attitude.

I am not surprised though - a couple of years ago with another airline (Xcel)my boyf and I were lucky enough to be offered extra legroom seats at check in (emergency seats). When we got on the plane there was already a hoo haa around our seating area as two young ladies had obviously also been offered extra legroom but as both were terrified of flying could not bear to be seated where they had been allocated (across the aisle from each other) as they needed to be right next to each other for comfort. So they wanted our seats and had enlisted the cabin crew to ask us for them. Which we weren't that fussed about but I did kind of go 'well it's a bit off but if it bothers them that much then okay'. What peed me off was the attitude of the staff member who then patronisingly said 'these are emergency seats, are you sure you are okay with that?' to which I answered of course I was. It was only minutes later that I wished I'd pointed out that the 2 frightened ladies who couldn't even be parted by an aisle would hardly be much use in an emergency would they? Tsk.

Basically, more training required on safety and customer service and less on selling snacks and fancy goods is required I think.

Hope you get your refund and more, understand totally why you didn't kick up an almighty fuss but I suspect if anything similar happens again then your tolerance levels have been reduced following this and hoity toity couple would not get away with it.

Anyone wonder whether couples like these are always like this and are drawn to be together or one teaches the other the art of being a complete

more training required on safety and customer service and less on selling snacks and fancy goods is required

- so true!

The business of who should get the emergency exit seats has been discussed here before and is covered by CAA rules, it's getting to the stage where it's worth printing them off and taking them on the flight!!
http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=1770&pagetype=90&pageid=9855

TC have replied with a standard letter saying a customer relations executive will contact me within 28 days.

Ok,
being a member of TC cabin crew myself, I feel compelled to reply.
First of all to the OP, its awful you had to go through this. Im sorry you were put in this position, and had I been on your flight I can assure you I wouldnt have let it lie with those people. But we are stepping into dangerous territory here, we are all HIGHLY trained in dealing with conflict scenarios, and the first thing we must try are 'de-escalation techniques'. However these sometimes don't work with certain types of people. If this doesnt work it can go one of many ways, 1)the passengers become verbally abusive= offload. 2)the passengers become apologetic=kept on but observed, 3)if it becomes a stale mate, then it gets tricky. We may seem to not be doing anything in front of you, but behind the scenes we are compiling reports, using the passengers details, whether off the manifest or indeed passports/tickets, witness statements, then depending if its the outbound or inbound flight, then depends on what becomes of the situation, if its on the outbound, we notify the ground agents who notify resorts, who in turn as the passengers to sign a conditions of carriage for their return journey, usually, no aggro,alcohol etc, if on inbound, we usually notify the police who will turn up to take over the situation... now, if this didnt happen I can only assume it didnt go past the 'police stage', ie no verbal/physical violence.
And the person who talked about the departure of the airport was spot on, we are heavily heavily dependant on getting our aircraft off on time, if late, it results in fines, which is directly passed onto the price of your holidays, so its in everyone interests to get going on time,

Im in now way conding the 'weakness' of the crew- btw a very unfair statement, they would be the first people you would look to in the event of an emergency, please remeber that, but by the sounds of it they could have been more vocally forceful. It could have been that, that day you had a particularly new crew onboard who still havent mastered the arts of dealing with the public, again, not the best, but this comes with time, surely anyone who works in a customer facing role can understand that? Some of our crew are still quite young and have yet to find their feet talking to older people, especially with trying to retain some respect for them, couple that with the fact they are probably being assessed as they were working, it doesnt make for a non stressful situation, but please dont fret, they will, and DO get better, theyre top notch on the safety and medical, but customer service comes with experience.

Im glad you have written into customer services, I would do exactly the same.

Oh, and to the poster a few posts above this one, which says you wish we would spend more time on

''
Basically, more training required on safety and customer service and less on selling snacks and fancy goods is required I think. ''

Our crews are trained for 5 days a week, 5 weeks initially, then 3 days of exams, drills, evacuation drills, safety, security, dangerous goods etc etc EVERY SINGLE YEAR. We are all highly motivated, stringently rigid in matters of safety and perform to the highest standards for this, HOWEVER youre holidays are affordable to you because we sell things onboard. If we didnt sell stuff, then your holiday price would go up, and then these boards would be full of people saying that Tour Operators are pricing them out of their annual vacations.
You have 1 of 2 options here. 1) dont buy anything-simples or 2) fly scheduled where drinks are free, but youll pay more for your ticket.

I hope I havent offended anyone, but you asked for a crew member to answer your posts, so I did., and to the OP, please dont be put off TC, believe me theres a heck of a lot more strong willed crew than newer (weaker) willed ones. xx

That's a pretty comprehensive and interesting reply, butterchickengirl - I'm sure the OP will be interested to read your view too.

Maybe it was because, as the OP has said, he didn't want to create a fuss that the crew didn't step up further.

I do take your point about working in a customer-facing role, it's not easy at the best of times.

If, as you say, reports were being complied about this incident, one would hope that when TC Customer Services receives the OP's letter, they will acknowledge without delay that they took his money but didn't deliver the service he'd paid for and agree to refund the amount paid and offer some recompense for the poor experience he had - which imho could have and should have been avoided.
And would have been avoided if it hadn't been for the 'Me! Me! attitude of 2 grasping, rude and arrogant passengers in the first place.

Thank you butterchickengirl. I was hoping for a TC employee to see this, I would just love it if the obnoxious passenger saw it too. I didn't say the cabin crew were weak. They were so polite and apologetic to me although the captain was a bit abrupt when all I was doing was standing out of the way waiting for a seat to be found for me. It would have been better if he was abrupt to the people who took our seats. He upset me most. I have said that I didn't make a fuss as I'm not that kind of person and of course I was very aware of the need to sit down and allow the plane to take off. One shouldn't have to make a fuss to be provided with what you had paid for. I wasn't refusing to sit down or being awkward, I had nowhere to sit and then of course I had nowhere to put my bag containing my drugs! I hope reports were made about this awkward couple. There was no aggro from this woman she just flatly refused to move and continued stating that she had booked that seat which of course she couldn't prove. 2 members of the crew asked them to move, one was young but the senior crew member wasn't young and she couldn't get them to move either. I wouldn't have liked their job at that moment but as you say they should be trained for it.
I have flown TC dozens of times on this route with no problems and almost always sit in the same seats lol. However I have booked my next 2 flights with a different carrier. We'll see how quickly TC respond to my complaint and to what extent they go to compensate me. More than anything I would like them to send a letter of complaint to these 2 people.

HI JMK,
Im glad you read my reply and took it in the context in which it was meant. My comments about 'weak crew' were only directed at the posters who called them such, though I dont find it insulting myself, its very hard to convey emotions over the internet and is sometimes easier to write words which other people may find a bit odd.
Unfortunatley more than likely no report or complaint wont find their way to these 2 passengers, it would be very unprofessional of TC, not to mention probably over stepping the mark on data protection, which is a shame as some people really need to see how their actions affect others.

RE the captain being abrupt.. yes this most certainly shouldnt be happening, but this sadly is a sign of the times. Their first job is to get the aircraft airborne on time, and sometimes they fail to see the human side to flying, bare in mind they are stuck behind a heavily locked door for up to 12 hours a day, they become very focused on the safety of the aircraft, and it is a hugely stressful situation to fly a passenger jet, I would imagine. And to be truthful, unless its interfering with the safety of the aircraft, passengers or crew, the onus is on the cabin crew to do this, not the flight crew, they have enough to think about without having to get involved with seating issues.
Now assuming you sent the boarding stubbs into TC and explained the situation to customer services, I would imagine you would recieve a prompt and full refund, and also it wont go amiss to mention that due to this, you have booked your next holiday with another carrier, people vote with their feet, they know that, and by telling them such information, they are in a better position to deal with any future seating issues.