That was my thread asking about them and did wonder where it went. I dont see it as causing offense. Its peoples opinions at the end of the day and I see it no different to that of opinions of british yobs out in magaluf ect.

Mr Parsons, i agree totally. It seems ok to make hurtful comments about your own country and the disabled, but not ok to be honest and truthful with regards to other nationalities, the political correctness in the UK is absurd. Whatever happened to freedom of speech and gsoh. Like i said i wouldnt have even bothered to mention this is it was not for the fact they seemed to have deleted that post. which i might add, as well as handled with a sense of fun, it was soo the truth. No disrespect, we are slated for our views on veils, muslims, middle east war, yobs, etc but it is ok for other nationalities to burn british flags, slate us as much as they like and live of our taxes. Soon we will have no rights of speech whatsoever. this will probably be deleted soon like i said before, double standards.

i actually posted on the thread you are referring to ( i am being very careful here) and i did not make any comment that i would class as insulting about any nationality.. in fact i said that there was good and bad in every nationality.....

i made a light hearted crack about swamp hags and hairy shot putters (and that's just the women) parading around in thongs and bikini's in front of my 14 year old son and scarring him for life when he is at such an impressionable age!! In that, i made no reference to any nationality.. whichever nationality, it would be equally as minging for him..

I was a little disappointed to find the whole thread had been removed this morning but to be honest, i expected it a little last night. The Britain i grew up in has a law about freedom of speech but these days, it is so difficult for this to be allowed for fear of reprisals by extremists. I can understand the mods having to be careful in case the forum got political.. they are in a difficult situation.. perhaps they could put up a massive disclaimer saying something along the lines that all views expressed are the personal opinion of the poster and do not in any way reflect the view of the HT administrators ( even if secretly they do )

I also expect this thread to be removed.

Val, i was just as bad, but hey, i was giving my honest opinion, then if thats wrong, god help us! I was speaking the truth at the end of the day. I am not one to mince my words, but personally, i did not find it offensive, funny yes. It was a foul, vulgar display on how a women should not behave and dress on a public beach and my personal perception of how they looked, nothing wrong with that. I agree, this one will prob also be deleted. (I am also Welsh, talented, certainly would not class my race as a 'disability', now thats wrong, so can the moderator justify why this statement was not deleted?)

there was a similar thread some months ago on the general discussion forum ( started out in france i think and was moved) about a rule that said men must wear swimming trunks in france rather than shorts and that conjoured up images of fat hairy michelin men running around in spandex speedo's. It had loads of posts with most of us preferring men in shorts rather than speedo's but part of that conversation was also about minging heffers parading around in next to nowt when quite clearly common sense and decency should have prevailed with them wearing a cozzy/shorts.. this eventually got shut down by the mods ( but i can't remember why now)

One thing i admire about us Brits is the way we can poke fun at ourselves...

Perhaps you could all hold fire with the criticism of the way the forum is moderated and wait until Briar is next online to defend herself??

What, they actually wear clothes? My experience is that they wear nothing whatsoever on the beach, leaves nothing to the imagination. Just dont stand behind them when they are doing their beach aerobics! We couldnt really believe the lack of meat and veg and the proudness to show it off. My Dezmund (my cat) has more to be proud of and he only has a lipstick!

Pippy,

I dont think this is a slating of they way the site is moderated. Its more to do with freedom of speah when in all honesty the topic of conversation was pretty mild to what has been seen on here.

I know all about moderating a forum as i run my own sucessfull tenerife site and know how demanding it is. Being a british forum also, surely we have the right to express our opinions on Russians without causing them offense? I am pretty certain minimum russians visit this site afterall!

and as a final point, i feel it was a very valid question with exceptionally valid responses. Its something we might encounter on holiday and I wanted to be prepared for it. You may as well take down all the negative reviews of hotels and attractions if your that worried about offendin people and then we'd all be looking at a universal holiday brochure only hilighting the good points.

I beleive its perfectly acceptable to review a nation as well as a holiday.

i agree Mr Parsons, i am sure this is not meant as a personal attack to Briar. i think the general concensous is the way we are restricted to express our thoughts on other nationalities behaviours. Not being funny, you can sit in a bar on holiday with a load of Brits and hear exactly the same thing. Look at Borat, a prime example of expressing himself (inadvertantly) and even the countrymen he mocks actually admit they find him funny (except the Kazech gov). We all have our funny quirks all over the world, i am sure the Russians, Germans etc find it weird that us Brit ladies shave our bits, just as much as our revolt to their hairy pits! I bet you 2k that if you go on worldwide forums, you will see the piddle being taking out of the Brits without gagging. It is just reading though some entries on this forum, i see a bit of pot, kettle, black here. You cannot delete one entry without deleting the others i am afraid. Pippy, thats is what the point is of this rant. I, along with the others on here, are not afraid to speak when they feel an injustice has been done, that is what a forum is about. It is not as if we condoning things like rape, peadophillia or urging eachother to become suicide bombers or mugging old ladies. We are just expressing our displeasure of being gagged. No point having a forum if you cant say what you see, even if i am Welsh.....please tel me if i am wrong.

I do not recall the thread in question nor the comments about the Welsh.

However, if a Mod has removed anything from the forum in the belief that it may be insulting to others then he or she has my full support.

I would rather be part of a censored but warm and friendly forum than an uncensored forum filled with disturbing and hateful comments such as unfortunately happens in other forums. I am not saying that the thread in question falls into that catagory as I do not recall seeing it.

However, this forum has its own rules which we have to follow if we wish to join in. I do not see the need to raise a storm over the removal of a thread.

From my personal experience I have not had any problems with Russian guests, but then my hotel does not do all inclusive and is aimed at those seeking peace and quiet. We have had Russian-Americans, and many other nationalities staying with us.

Unfortunately, mass market, cheap all-inclusive packages offered by huge resort hotels attracts the worst type of clientel from all nationalities and so, often a few obnoxious people will spoil the stay for the many other guests.

Now... freedom of speech is one thing but freedom to insult and incite is another. Political correctness my foot. In certain countries it is an offence to deny the holocaust. And yet it is perfectly acceptable to publish cartoons that insult muslims... and which, I may add, have been published with the specific aim of stirring up hate and anger !

I can understand the mods having to be careful in case the forum got political.. they are in a difficult situation

None of this is a personal criticism of the way the site or forum is run.. i have been on record before as saying all mods do an excellent job of running things...

The issue of being gagged for fear of causing offence to some extremist or another is quite high profile at the minute as it does seem that not all sections of society seem to be subject to the same restrictions and that is where the resentment starts to bite in.

Why is it acceptable for extremists to burn down the flag of another country, preach hatred on street corners and the other multitude of things that happen ( before i even go into terrorism) and it is allowed under the freedom of speech law and yet in this country, if anyone says anything that is not politically correct and might, JUST might cause offence to the very same extremists, then all hell breaks loose.

I am a tolerant person, as i am sure others are on the HT site. If people want to take the urine out of the british and all our little habits and hang ups i won't take offence, as long as it is done with a sense of humour. It is their right to do so and i wouldn't expect them to be censored for it any more than i expect to be censored if i am taking the mickey out of hairy looking bush pigs parading their tackle around swimming pools when really they should be wearing a tent and a paper bag over thier head..then why shouldn't i.?

What is happening now reminds me of the George Orwell book Animal Farm where the pigs take over and create a new society and all peopel are equal, but in the end it becomes all people are equal but some people are more equal than others......

I, along with the others on here, are not afraid to speak when they feel an injustice has been done, that is what a forum is about.

As Swiss has said, this forum has it's own T&Cs.
I'm just asking you to wait for Briar to come online so she can give you her reasons for pulling the thread.

but swiss, it was not offensive!! now if we said something like death and destruction to all russians, fair enough, and we said nothing about muslims whatsoever, so please get your facts right. How an earth can you make judgement or comment on something you have not seen? Is this the way you run your hotel? It was not hateful or anything like that, it was a harmless account of how these ladies dressed on the beach and their lack of manners, it was an account of observations taken. Maybe you should take the time to read back at some of the remarks made on here. It will probably get deleted anyway so chill out about it. If you read it properly it is about freedom of speech and not about the right to be abusive (which it was certainly not). Swiss, i also think you should take time to refect on what you have said. Are you suggesting that people who go AI are not worthy of your hotel and are obnoxious. Excuse me but i think you are on here to drum up business for yourself, why the link on most of your posts? Not a great marking statement you have just made. Please read my last post properly and gain a better understanding before replying. The only one stirring hate and anger and racism on this thread is you.

your quote:

Political correctness my foot. In certain countries it is an offence to deny the holocaust. And yet it is perfectly acceptable to publish cartoons that insult muslims... and which, I may add, have been published with the specific aim of stirring up hate and anger.

Why bring this up, this has nothing to do with what is being discussed. it must really bother you.

Your other quote

Unfortunately, mass market, cheap all-inclusive packages offered by huge resort hotels attracts the worst type of clientel from all nationalities and so, often a few obnoxious people will spoil the stay for the many other guests.

Are you referring to us by any chance? And no, before you mention anything else, i really am not bothered about staying at your hotel. As will many others who will read your post. Sharm have great hotels that are of a high standard, great staff and management, that i am more than happy to spend my good, hard earned money in!

sorry to be blunt, but that really angered me. i am fed up with us Brits being so submissive. if anything, the moderators should charge swiss for advertising space!

OK... another example.... ( and I know Briar will have to either remove or move this thread as it now is totally off topic and has nothing to do with tourism to Egypt )... a couple of weeks ago on the front page of the Daily Mail ( in very big letters )...

Jack Straw tells Muslims to remove veils !

Now this sort of headline is misleading and was done to cause anger and discord for purely political reasons and for sensationalism !

Straw did not tell anyone any such thing but merely asked a few times if constituents, who were meeting with him, would mind removing their veils in order to facilitate the discussion.

The outcry and anger that was unleashed was totally out of proportion... so much for freedom of speech.

If evil things happen, or are allowed to happen, in certain countries around this world does not mean that this forum should lower its standards.

Two wrongs do not make a right !

There are enough hateful, racist and bigotted forums around the internet for people to cruise in... I am glad that this forum, for all its errors and mistakes, is a clean, warm and friendly one. And this is a result of the Mods efforts in keeping it that way !

Every time I have been to Egypt (many) I have encountered the R people. The things I wrote about, I have witnessed with my own eyes.

It is not slander, the things actually happened. There are much worse things I could have written (again true) but it is not approriate to write in details about beahviour of an adult nature.

However, I do thing the tone of the thread changed.... so I can see why it was pulled.....

Doesn't change my experiences though, or remove the memory....

yes but Swiss, if ladies go to some middle eastern countries, we have to abide by their rules, which i totally respect, when they come to live in ours, it seems that we have to abide by their rules and laws. If you also read many posts on the net , we are always threatened with death to us and our children and have to live with the daily threat of islamic terrorism. The ones who kicked up the most fuss about Jack Straw was the Muslims themselves. I am a Government worker, and we have to live with being threatened constantly, in fact our reception is like an airport departure zone with xray machines, etc, should we have to live adn work like this? I have to be fair, I have never felt safer than when i holidayed in Egypt and Isreal. Britian could learn alot from their security procedures. Even though i did not have to, i showed respect by not going topless, and not wearing a piece of floss to cover my bottom when i was there and i have a lot of repect for the people of Egypt and Isreal. We have even sent gifts to soem of the waiters at the hotel such as trainers and clothing as we understand they do not ahve the same luxury we do as Brits. We also send necessities to african schools, doesnt make me a better person but at least we are trying. So please, dont patronise me and use racism as an excuse to batter me down.

Swiss

I started the thread and asked why people had a low opinion of the russians and why people draded encountering them on holiday.

The replies were simply peoples experiences of this and wasnt prejudging the russians nor slating them but giving accounts of what people on here experienced with their behaviour.

It just appears like double standards on here. For example, I was originally registered under my website name as i helped people out on Tenerife questions. I was promptly told to change my name and was told i couldnt have a link to my purely informational website. Then we have you showing a link to a profit organisation and all is fine with that.

Go figure?!

Mr Parsons, well said.