I try and learn a few basic words like
Hello, please, thank you. Wheres the toilet

I think people appreciate it if they see you making an effort.


Lynn

Always do and it's always been useful. Imagine how it feels to always have to deal with visitors who can't even say 'Please' and 'Thank you' in your own language - and how much nicer it would feel if they could! And how much easier it would be to help them if they at least understood the basics when they were looking for directions as to how to get somewhere. Or could read the menu without you having to go to the expense of providing an English version. Or only being able to employ staff who could trnaslate for them. It really doesn't take that long to acquire enough to get by as a visitor and the way people respond so much more warmly to you always makes it worth the effort in my opinion.

I'm forever astounded by the assumption on the part of so many people that English is the universal language and we don't need to make any attempt to learn how to communicate with others. It's only becoming close to being universally spoken because we English speakers are so bad at doing others the courtesy of trying to learn to communicate with the rest of the world in their own languages. Sorry - rant over! But I'm so fed up with having conversations with students on the professional training courses that I teach on go along the lines of:

Student: I was thinking that I'd like to do my final placement somewhere in Europe - I understand the University can arrange that?

Me: Yes, we certainly can, we've had very successful placements in both Spain and Germany recently but we've good contacts elsewhere too - what languages do you speak?

Student: I don't - I dropped French before doing my Standard grades/GCSEs

Me: So how do you propose to get by working for 4 months as a XXX worker in a country where you can't speak the language? Are you planning to spend the summer doing an intensive language course? We could help you arrange that.

Student: Would I have to?

Me: Yes, you would if you wanted to do your placement in a non-English speaking country. You could either do it here or go out early and do it there?

Student: MMmmm, sounds like a lot of hard work - I don't think I'll bother.

Me: Probably for the best that you do your placement here in Scotland then.

SM

Oh dear Sma how do you keep your patience with people like that

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of people who just think that english is universal and that if they don't understand just shout louder!

I always learn the basics - please, thankyou, hello, goodbye etc and as much else as I can, for instance food names learning things like pollo is spanish for chicken so I would recognise it on a menu.

I find that hotel staff and waiters/bar staff really appreciate you having a try at their language and when we were in lanzarote earlier this year my 7 year old daughter was saying hello,please, thankyou etc in spanish too which they loved and we often came back from the pool bar with a free lolly from the barman just because she said "hola" to him!!

I'm sure there's been a post about this on here somewhere before. Maybe one of the mods could resurrect it for the sake of our newer members. Myself yes I always try and learn a little of the language before we go away. We have good fun trying out our Spanish and Greek. Of course it feels and sounds better after having a couple of bevvies Always feel more confident then.

I always try and learn some words and phrases when travelling to a new country though the few words of Mandarin that I learned on my first trip to China weren't much help when I reached the Cantonese speaking areas. I'm also having a bit of a problem trying to get my head around some of the Lao language for my trip to Laos in November.

We always try and learn at least basic lingo..after all it is only polite and we have found that the locals are always willing to help us if we at least attempt the lingo. Luckily, I knew some French and German, taught at school. As adults, we have had Spanish lessons, I learnt a few words in Swedish, Dutch, Italian and Russian. We tried to pick up Maltese but I only managed to learn 3 words! I have also not mastered Egyptian Arabic either. Oh..and I can swear in Greek..I had a Greek friend who taught me, and I know a few swear words in Turkish..again I was taught by a Turkish friend. I know just 2 phrases in Gaelic..taught to me by my ex mother in law ( God rest her soul) who was from the Isle of Skye. I can count to 4 in Chinese.

Nothing very brilliant in there but we have had loads of fun, especially off the beaten track in the Canary Islands trying out our Spanish. Why on earth should we be arrogant enough to assume that everyone should speak English.

Oh dear Sma how do you keep your patience with people like that

With great difficulty, Fatcodycat, with great difficulty! Even students who have a good basic fluency find it difficult at first because they still need to acquire the necessary professional vocabulary but at tleast they can hold an ordinary conversation which gives them a head start. How anybody thinks they can function as a full-time professional practitioner in another country where they don't speak the language at all always defeats me!

SM

I'm forever astounded by the assumption on the part of so many people that English is the universal language and we don't need to make any attempt to learn how to communicate with others. It's only becoming close to being universally spoken because we English speakers are so bad at doing others the courtesy of trying to learn to communicate with the rest of the world in their own languages.

Whilst I agree to a certain degree with the above statement, I'm sorry but you cannot place the blame entirely on the individual or this nation.
Sí, hablo español un poco, yes, I speak a little Spanish, but I have paid a lot of money out and put a tremendous amount of hours in to learn a language that I knew I would get the most benefit from, as I fell in love with Spain many years ago and I knew Spain would be where I would be visiting the most.

I didn't have the opportunity to learn a language at school, most students who left school in the early 60's had no inspirations to learn anything except English and walk into the nearest job in this country.....those students are now in their 50s/60s and whilst air travel has opened up the world for them, the opportunity to learn a language in this country has not been forth coming...unless they pay....and pay dearly you must for a language that you might only use for 2 weeks out of the year.

When my youngest lad went to the secondary modern school, the opportunity to learn a language was "forced" upon him.
The school had a policy that going down the register and according to the letter of your surname, you would either learn French or German, he was allocated to learn German, he didn't want to learn German, he hated it and at the first opportunity he dropped it and left school without any real skills in a language.

I asked if he could learn Spanish, as there are considerably more countries in the world that speak Spanish than German and I was already taking him around Spain on various holidays at the time.....oh NO that was not possible.
Whilst I appreciate that schools cannot employ teachers to educate students on every language spoken in the world, the point I'm trying to make is that they were unwilling to deviate one inch and try to accommodate someone who was actually very eager to learn a language.

The education system and the government (any government) are to blame for the population not being able to speak a foreign language, in Spain, English is now taught as a second language, it's not an option, it's not something that you can chose to drop at the first opportunity, it's compulsory.

I enquired about going back to college this September to further my Spanish, the price has shot up to £160 for a 2 hour lesson per week....now had I been on some benefits or been wanting to learn English, then it would be free, the fact that I'm on a benefit, namely the State Pension, doesn't qualify me for any concessions.
Why? because I'm "old" and the brain box thinking tanks assume that learning a language at my age is "dead money".

So, to end my little rant, I get fed up of people casting opinions on anyone over the age of 40 who can't speak a language, and assuming that they are just lazy, when the truth is, that they never really had the opportunity unless they were going to pay and put their own hours into it, as well as working and raising a family.
I think we should give some people a break and not be so hard on ourselves and look at the education system or the government, either way, they have to take some responsibility for a "lazy nation".

A lot of the English spoken in foreign countries is acquired by association and hearing the language spoken by tourists on a daily basis and by the tourists asking each day for the same things.
That scenario doesn't happen in the UK and it's like everything else in life...if you don't use it regularly, you lose it.!

Has learning Spanish been beneficial to me.? without doubt, it broke down the barriers, it has given me the confidence to go anywhere in a Spanish speaking country, and best of all...I have acquired some true friends from all over Spain, who have welcomed me into their lives and their extended families.

Sanji

I have always tried to learn a little of the language of every country that we have visited, as the staff of our local Chinese supermarket will confirm. They found it hysterically funny when I tried to say "Thank you" in their language and they kept asking me to say it again and again to amuse the rest of their customers. Apparently, the words were correct, but the stress on them wrong - which gave them a totally different meaning! In this case I was definitely laughed AT, but know from experience that most people are pleased at any attempt to speak their language, even if it only results in every one sharing a laugh as a result!
It is not so much the fact that the Brits abroad cannot speak the local language which bothers me, it is their complaining when the locals don't speak ours. We were in a remote village in the rain forest in Borneo and one of our group was shaking her head in despair because one of the villagers couldn't understand her. "But why on earth should he?" I asked. She looked at me in astonishment, "Because we're tourists of course." I'd never thought of that!!!!! Jenny x

hi
come on then all you professionals
give me some of the basic spanish ones for my trip to sa coma in 4 weeks and i will have fun teaching my 3 kids and hubby
regards

Yes, Sanji, developing fluency in a language can be expensive but the OP asked about the usefulness of brushing up on the basics and that needn't cost a lot. The BBC courses available on the web at

http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/

are free and you don't need to be on-line at home to access them, or at least you don't in Scotland because there is free internet access in all public libraries - is this not the case in England? Yes, the free courses are very basic but they do have enough in them to get you by with greetings, menus, basic street directions etc.

I acquired my basic German in exactly that way - my Dad and I recorded the programmes from the radio and bought the book, which accompanied it, between the two of us and used to practice with each other on a Sunday afternoon. Interestingly enough we are now usually assumed to be Dutch by the native speakers we meet on holiday. Must be something to do with the Scouser undertones to our accents when speaking German! The Serbo-Croat was less successful, mainly because we didn't do our research beforehand and so didn't realise that whilst Serbo-Croat was the main language in Jugoslavia as a whole, the locals in Bled in Slovenia understandbably preferred to speak Slovenian! On the other hand, the BBC courses did get me going in Portugese, which when supplemented with a cheap phrasebook bought at the airport on the way out to the Algarve got us by there aswell - even if our accent probably did leave a lot to be desired. The BBC got me started with my Spanish too though no doubt this was helped by the 4 years of compulsory Latin I had to do at my old-fashioned grammar school (yes, I am over 40 too!) because it meant I had fewer problems with the syntax and the idea that the pronoun isn't needed because it's implicit in the verb ending. Yes, I've since supplemented that with classes when in Cuba but I was going anyway

So I would disagree with you Sanji, acquiring enough vocabulary to get by as a tourist isn't dependent on income, even for the over 40's. My Dad has now turned 80 and wants to borrow my Spanish CDs so he can remind himself of the basics ready for our holiday next month in the Canaries. And my rant, granted that it was a bit off-topic, was about University students who actually can access very high quality language courses at highly subsidised prices through the Continuing Education programmes run by us but apparently don't see the need to avail themselves of this opportunity even though they do want to go and do a work placement abroad.

I would agree with you that current government policy hasn't helped - I can't understand why they ever thought it was a good idea to allow school students to drop all foreign langauges at 14 if they wanted to. But then I'm old-fashioned enough to think that they shouldn't be allowed to drop studying science at that age either. And one result of this is that Universities have had to abandon their requirement that all applicants coming in straight from school must have at least one modern language at Standard Grade/GCSE as part of the mimimum entrance requirements. No wonder it comes as a shock to them to then encounter someone like me who is often the first person, it would appear, to point out to them why it wasn't such a good idea after all to drop their French or Spanish or whatever 4 years beforehand.

Bestfriend22uk - doing the basic introductory Spanish course on the BBC website - link above - will more than set the whole family up for a holiday trip to Spain. How about setting aside a little time each evening as a family to do it? It's very interactive and would appeal to most kids I would imagine.

Jennyfrank, yes, I had exactly the same experience with the staff in my local Chinese takeaway AFTER an exchange trip to China. Made me realise just how polite the Chinese naturally are and how much emphasis they placed on ensuring that official visitors didn't lose face. Not one person laughed at my inexpert attempts whilst in China despite the fact that as I later realised, I must have been screwing up their language monumentally! The incident you describe in Borneo really sums up the problem for me.

SM

There was some interest on this site a while ago in http://www.byki.com which does teach the basic phrases and has sound to help the pronunciation. It is free and covers 63 languages. I have found it very helpful and quite entertaining as well, especially the built-in tests.

Yes I would learn some phrases.
I have spoken Greek and spanish , even the kids do it.
My 5yr old son had been speaking spanish for the last two or three years from watching Dpra the explorer (seriously!) He has also been able to count to 10 in spanish as long as I can remember !

Maybe I'm playing Devil's Advocate, but do the majority of people who holiday each year in Spain or Italy want to speak any language other than English, I don't think so and in most of the resorts they certainly don't need to. Why spend money and time on something that will only be used once each year? As discussed in earlier posts English isn't the universal language of the world but it is spoken by more people as a second language than many others so it's pretty easy to travel around to a lot of places without learning even the basics of another language. I have learned a few words and phrases in Mandarin, Swahili, Thai,Greek, Spanish, Italian, Hindi and Arabic just because that's what I like to do when I'm travelling, but most of them I've forgotten within a few weeks of returning home but if the people in the countries I have travelled to other than France, Italy and perhaps Spain hadn't spoken some English I would have had a very difficult time. The original poster asked if anyone brushed up on the language of the country we visit as he had never done so, most people said yes. But it doesn't bother me or suprise me that people don't learn any of the language of their guest country. We are often suprised how often foreign people speak English(not just staff in holiday resorts) but people you meet on your travels, well a lot of them learn English because they regard it as a universal language and with some knowledge of English their travels will be easier.

whilst i agree with SM /Judith & Sanji on some points i differ slightly on others so no arguments from me, just an opinion.
unfortunately many British are like the Yanks and believe the world revolves around them.. ""why speak another language they should all speak English"" as most of you are aware we spend most of our holidays in Greece and Cyprus, as we do not spend all our time in the resort or on the beach ,it is not unusual for us to find ourselves in a village shop/bar where no one speaks English although not fluent i can get by in Greek this has caused some fun occasionally [when i get it wrong] but it also brings a respect and openness from the locals as they appreciate your trying to fit with them instead of using the universal foreign English [shout as loud as you can and sware]

yasus
wizard

Slightly off topic here but I have to disagree about government policy allowing kids drop languages at 14.

At my kids school, French and Spanish are compulsory until 14 then they are allowed to drop 1 of them if they wish. They choose which language they do at GCSE level.

The only children allowed to drop both are a small minority who are struggling with English and maths when the time is used to give extra help in these 2 essential subjects.

Seems fair enough to me sorry!

oh and can someone remind me what its like to be 40 i cant remember that far back

If I went to the same country for most of my holidays I would probably learn a bit more of the language as I certainly like to go off the beaten track. But as I invariably go somewhere different every year it's a case of just learning just a few words. But mostly I could get by without learning any.
I don't know Wizard how many Americans you know personally but having worked with a fair amount of them for over 20years. I have found that like most things in life it's wrong to generalise. I know many Americans that speak other languages fluently, in fact when I was first learning German it was to an American friend that I turned when I was having difficulties sorting out the language and not once has any of my friends stated that they wished everyone spoke English, other than jokingly when they were having problems learning the language.
I'm sorry I'm getting away from the original topic.

Un poco no mucho, en Espanol.
Seriously, I do try to speak the basics ie, please, thank you, how are you (you get the picture.) I think that is only polite.
Learnt how to ask the maid for two more pillows, I find that a godsend.
Although if anyone started speaking back in Spanish I probably would not understand a word, they speak so fast.