nicila,
Its been discussed on this Board (and other Boards for 2 years or so) and more recently has become a sensitive topic. Afraid to say it but if its Excel, they have been Greek Island hopping for some time. I hope you are not cooped up in the aircraft for too long in Santorini. Travel time from EMA could turn into a 7+ hours journey, be prepared!
I understand that some of those flying from EMA had initially booked to fly from other regional airports but have now to make their way from the likes of Bristol and Stanstead.
I wonder, is It only in the UK that people would put up with such a service?
Its been discussed on this Board (and other Boards for 2 years or so) and more recently has become a sensitive topic. Afraid to say it but if its Excel, they have been Greek Island hopping for some time. I hope you are not cooped up in the aircraft for too long in Santorini. Travel time from EMA could turn into a 7+ hours journey, be prepared!
I understand that some of those flying from EMA had initially booked to fly from other regional airports but have now to make their way from the likes of Bristol and Stanstead.
I wonder, is It only in the UK that people would put up with such a service?
We'll be doing this trip in August. Have a good time and report back on your return 
Which resort are you going to?
Which resort are you going to?
Unfortunately this is all to do with economics. Operators will consolidate flights when there is insufficient demand for packages/flights from the regional airports in low season. You are usually given the option to change your booking, but its tough luck if you really want to go to where you originally booked for.
Operators will consolidate flights when there is insufficient demand for packages/flights from the regional airports in low season.
Yet to see MANOS, LIBRA, TC, Thompsons, MT etc do that at any time. The travel company in question do it in high season let alone as a one off in low season!
And no, you are not usually given the option to change a booking!
but its tough luck if you really want to go to where you originally booked for.
No, its not tough luck at all, its an atrocious service, why is it that we seem ready to accept such poor treatment and then make excuses for those delivering the poor service!
Unfortunately this is all to do with economics.
No it is not, its to do with a travel company who cannot sell enough holidays to fill two aircraft, its to do with a travel company who chooses not to be honest with its customers and its about a travel company that seems not to care that much!
You have paid good money to fly from the advertised airport of departure at a particular time with a view to landing at a particular time to a place and on a date of your choosing, suddenly some Travel Company or Carrier at no notice says no, changes the take off time, changes the airport of departure and stops off at another Greek Island en-route which was not previously specified and the customer is left trapped in an aircraft for 80 minutes and its "tough luck". Sorry to say it but with an acceptance of a shoddy service like that is it any wonder they continue to treat customers so badly!
Having lived in Germany myself for many years and experienced the after care service provided there I ask myself, would the Germans be treated so badly and if they were would they put up with such treatment, would the Swiss, Dutch, French and Scandanavians put up with the shoddy service we readily accept, I tell you now its a resounding No, nien, nicht, non!
I have to say again; "I wonder, is It only in the UK that people would put up with such a service"?
Yet to see MANOS, LIBRA, TC, Thompsons, MT etc do that at any time. The travel company in question do it in high season let alone as a one off in low season!
And no, you are not usually given the option to change a booking!
but its tough luck if you really want to go to where you originally booked for.
No, its not tough luck at all, its an atrocious service, why is it that we seem ready to accept such poor treatment and then make excuses for those delivering the poor service!
Unfortunately this is all to do with economics.
No it is not, its to do with a travel company who cannot sell enough holidays to fill two aircraft, its to do with a travel company who chooses not to be honest with its customers and its about a travel company that seems not to care that much!
You have paid good money to fly from the advertised airport of departure at a particular time with a view to landing at a particular time to a place and on a date of your choosing, suddenly some Travel Company or Carrier at no notice says no, changes the take off time, changes the airport of departure and stops off at another Greek Island en-route which was not previously specified and the customer is left trapped in an aircraft for 80 minutes and its "tough luck". Sorry to say it but with an acceptance of a shoddy service like that is it any wonder they continue to treat customers so badly!
Having lived in Germany myself for many years and experienced the after care service provided there I ask myself, would the Germans be treated so badly and if they were would they put up with such treatment, would the Swiss, Dutch, French and Scandanavians put up with the shoddy service we readily accept, I tell you now its a resounding No, nien, nicht, non!
I have to say again; "I wonder, is It only in the UK that people would put up with such a service"?
Having lived in Germany myself for many years and experienced the after care service provided there I ask myself, would the Germans be treated so badly and if they were would they put up with such treatment, would the Swiss, Dutch, French and Scandanavians put up with the shoddy service we readily accept, I tell you now its a resounding No, nien, nicht, non!
I have to say again; "I wonder, is It only in the UK that people would put up with such a service"?
I think you're asking the wrong question here. In my experience, German people do expect and receive better service but they also expect to pay more than we do here in the UK, especially for holidays. The question I keep asking myself is why are people in the UK not willing to pay more in return for getting a much better service? If you want the reliability of a Mercedes, a BMW or an Audi, and so many German people do, then you have to pay more. And the same goes for holidays.
SM
No, not at all! I am definately asking the right question!
Am I right in assuming, based on your logic of: "German people do expect and receive better service but they also expect to pay more than we do here in the UK, especially for holidays", that because people choose a KOSMAR holiday, which is shall we say sometimes cheaper by £100.00, that they deserve a shabby service! Not sure I am in agreement here SM!
I have taken holidays from Germany to Greece and Spain flying from Hannover and Dussledorf using a German Travel Agency where the costs were comparable to the UK, yet the service at the Travel Agents, on Board the aircraft and in resort were far superior to that provided by a UK based company! I, along with the Germans, on those occasions did not expect to pay more than those in the UK! Not exactly sure where you get this "German people expect to pay more" from.
Its a flawed practice to compare a BMW, Mercedes or Audi to a 2 week jaunt with KOSMAR, its as subjective as comparing a Jaguar or Range Rover with a £190.00 14 nights B&B in KAVOS, flying with KOSMAR from Bristol, picking up at EMA, Gatwick and stopping off in Zante before heading for Corfu.
Whatever we do pay for we should be guranteed VFM, honesty and a sympathetic response when/if we complain, it really is as simple as that.
Am I right in assuming, based on your logic of: "German people do expect and receive better service but they also expect to pay more than we do here in the UK, especially for holidays", that because people choose a KOSMAR holiday, which is shall we say sometimes cheaper by £100.00, that they deserve a shabby service! Not sure I am in agreement here SM!
I have taken holidays from Germany to Greece and Spain flying from Hannover and Dussledorf using a German Travel Agency where the costs were comparable to the UK, yet the service at the Travel Agents, on Board the aircraft and in resort were far superior to that provided by a UK based company! I, along with the Germans, on those occasions did not expect to pay more than those in the UK! Not exactly sure where you get this "German people expect to pay more" from.
Its a flawed practice to compare a BMW, Mercedes or Audi to a 2 week jaunt with KOSMAR, its as subjective as comparing a Jaguar or Range Rover with a £190.00 14 nights B&B in KAVOS, flying with KOSMAR from Bristol, picking up at EMA, Gatwick and stopping off in Zante before heading for Corfu.
Whatever we do pay for we should be guranteed VFM, honesty and a sympathetic response when/if we complain, it really is as simple as that.
Hi Craven,
I'm not saying that they 'deserve a shabby service' but I am saying that anybody who buys on price alone has to tailor their expectations accordingly. I don't expect a £2 T-shirt from the market to be made of the same quality of cotton or to be as durable as a £12 one from M&S and I think that the same applies to holidays. But buy from a cut-price operation and, yes, I do think that it is unreasonable to expect exactly the same as you would get from a more expensive operator.
I buy on the basis of 'value for money' and I would think twice about whether a holiday with Kosmar using Excel flights was value for money just as I would never ever buy that £2 T-shirt either because it's not value for money even if it is the best one can expect for the price but if I did I wouldn't expect to get a sympathetic response from the market trader when I went back to complain that it shrank the first time I washed it. I think they they would quite reasonably ask what on earth did I expect for 2 quid! It's not value for money even if £2 is all it's worth. Though one needs to remember too that not everybody has the wherewithal to be able to afford to make their purchasing decisions in the same way. And some people are always prepared to take the gamble - posts on this board make it clear that Kosmar and Excel also have satisfied customers who do think they had a largely trouble free holiday that represented good value for money.
And my whole point is that one shouldn't expect a Mercedes Benz of a holiday from an outfit like Kosmar and that just as some people are happy with a basic runaround that does a basic job so some people realistically accept that they can't expect much of a basic holiday either. What does amaze me is that when it comes to holidays and flights some people do appear to expect a Mercedes for the price of a Skoda!
As for my comments about Germans being willing to pay more for better quality it is based on the attitudes of German friends and colleagues. They don't buy on price alone and are prepared to pay more for a better quality product and as a result do get better service all round. It's also why they appear to me to have a better health service and better schools - they're prepared to pay higher taxes and their equivalent of National Insurance. On the whole they seem to regard the Britush as pennypinchers who end up paying the price for their 'cheaper' goods and services in other ways. As you have rightly suggested, those who book with Kosmar very frequently do exactly that but in the end it remains people's choice.
SM
I'm not saying that they 'deserve a shabby service' but I am saying that anybody who buys on price alone has to tailor their expectations accordingly. I don't expect a £2 T-shirt from the market to be made of the same quality of cotton or to be as durable as a £12 one from M&S and I think that the same applies to holidays. But buy from a cut-price operation and, yes, I do think that it is unreasonable to expect exactly the same as you would get from a more expensive operator.
I buy on the basis of 'value for money' and I would think twice about whether a holiday with Kosmar using Excel flights was value for money just as I would never ever buy that £2 T-shirt either because it's not value for money even if it is the best one can expect for the price but if I did I wouldn't expect to get a sympathetic response from the market trader when I went back to complain that it shrank the first time I washed it. I think they they would quite reasonably ask what on earth did I expect for 2 quid! It's not value for money even if £2 is all it's worth. Though one needs to remember too that not everybody has the wherewithal to be able to afford to make their purchasing decisions in the same way. And some people are always prepared to take the gamble - posts on this board make it clear that Kosmar and Excel also have satisfied customers who do think they had a largely trouble free holiday that represented good value for money.
And my whole point is that one shouldn't expect a Mercedes Benz of a holiday from an outfit like Kosmar and that just as some people are happy with a basic runaround that does a basic job so some people realistically accept that they can't expect much of a basic holiday either. What does amaze me is that when it comes to holidays and flights some people do appear to expect a Mercedes for the price of a Skoda!
As for my comments about Germans being willing to pay more for better quality it is based on the attitudes of German friends and colleagues. They don't buy on price alone and are prepared to pay more for a better quality product and as a result do get better service all round. It's also why they appear to me to have a better health service and better schools - they're prepared to pay higher taxes and their equivalent of National Insurance. On the whole they seem to regard the Britush as pennypinchers who end up paying the price for their 'cheaper' goods and services in other ways. As you have rightly suggested, those who book with Kosmar very frequently do exactly that but in the end it remains people's choice.
SM
Hi Craven,
I'm not saying that they 'deserve a shabby service' but I am saying that anybody who buys on price alone has to tailor their expectations accordingly. I don't expect a £2 T-shirt from the market to be made of the same quality of cotton or to be as durable as a £12 one from M&S and I think that the same applies to holidays. But buy from a cut-price operation and, yes, I do think that it is unreasonable to expect exactly the same as you would get from a more expensive operator.
I buy on the basis of 'value for money' and I would think twice about whether a holiday with Kosmar using Excel flights was value for money just as I would never ever buy that £2 T-shirt either because it's not value for money even if it is the best one can expect for the price but if I did I wouldn't expect to get a sympathetic response from the market trader when I went back to complain that it shrank the first time I washed it. I think they they would quite reasonably ask what on earth did I expect for 2 quid! It's not value for money even if £2 is all it's worth. Though one needs to remember too that not everybody has the wherewithal to be able to afford to make their purchasing decisions in the same way. And some people are always prepared to take the gamble - posts on this board make it clear that Kosmar and Excel also have satisfied customers who do think they had a largely trouble free holiday that represented good value for money.
And my whole point is that one shouldn't expect a Mercedes Benz of a holiday from an outfit like Kosmar and that just as some people are happy with a basic runaround that does a basic job so some people realistically accept that they can't expect much of a basic holiday either. What does amaze me is that when it comes to holidays and flights some people do appear to expect a Mercedes for the price of a Skoda!
As for my comments about Germans being willing to pay more for better quality it is based on the attitudes of German friends and colleagues. They don't buy on price alone and are prepared to pay more for a better quality product and as a result do get better service all round. It's also why they appear to me to have a better health service and better schools - they're prepared to pay higher taxes and their equivalent of National Insurance. On the whole they seem to regard the Britush as pennypinchers who end up paying the price for their 'cheaper' goods and services in other ways. As you have rightly suggested, those who book with Kosmar very frequently do exactly that but in the end it remains people's choice.
SM
I'm not saying that they 'deserve a shabby service' but I am saying that anybody who buys on price alone has to tailor their expectations accordingly. I don't expect a £2 T-shirt from the market to be made of the same quality of cotton or to be as durable as a £12 one from M&S and I think that the same applies to holidays. But buy from a cut-price operation and, yes, I do think that it is unreasonable to expect exactly the same as you would get from a more expensive operator.
I buy on the basis of 'value for money' and I would think twice about whether a holiday with Kosmar using Excel flights was value for money just as I would never ever buy that £2 T-shirt either because it's not value for money even if it is the best one can expect for the price but if I did I wouldn't expect to get a sympathetic response from the market trader when I went back to complain that it shrank the first time I washed it. I think they they would quite reasonably ask what on earth did I expect for 2 quid! It's not value for money even if £2 is all it's worth. Though one needs to remember too that not everybody has the wherewithal to be able to afford to make their purchasing decisions in the same way. And some people are always prepared to take the gamble - posts on this board make it clear that Kosmar and Excel also have satisfied customers who do think they had a largely trouble free holiday that represented good value for money.
And my whole point is that one shouldn't expect a Mercedes Benz of a holiday from an outfit like Kosmar and that just as some people are happy with a basic runaround that does a basic job so some people realistically accept that they can't expect much of a basic holiday either. What does amaze me is that when it comes to holidays and flights some people do appear to expect a Mercedes for the price of a Skoda!
As for my comments about Germans being willing to pay more for better quality it is based on the attitudes of German friends and colleagues. They don't buy on price alone and are prepared to pay more for a better quality product and as a result do get better service all round. It's also why they appear to me to have a better health service and better schools - they're prepared to pay higher taxes and their equivalent of National Insurance. On the whole they seem to regard the Britush as pennypinchers who end up paying the price for their 'cheaper' goods and services in other ways. As you have rightly suggested, those who book with Kosmar very frequently do exactly that but in the end it remains people's choice.
SM
I do think that it is unreasonable to expect exactly the same as you would get from a more expensive operator.
Hi SM,
Sorry, cannot agree. I, and I am sure that many others would not expect to be dealt with by some ignorant, rude and obnoxious oaf when all that is being requested is an explanation of why, flight times, dates, airports of departure and changes of accommodation had been made without consultatation! Similarly I would not expect a carrier to fly me from Bristol to EMA, then to Santorini and then to Chania without consultation, when the brochure implied nothing of the sort at the time of booking! All these whinges and whines formed the basis of mine and others complaints. The fact that one purchased a holiday of c £100.00 less than the norm does not automatically qualify one for a shoddy service! Whenever did the term Bargain mean crap!
I buy on the basis of 'value for money'
And you get VFM only when you are happy with what you have had! If you have not had a good service you did not get VFM and you really dont go into purchasing a holiday expecting not to get VFM. Its just that with this particular Travel Company the risks are greater, as a result fewer buy holidays with them, as a result the company cut too many corners, as a result they Island hop, cancel aircraft at regional airports, fly from one regional airport and pick up at another, cut the cleaning costs of aircraft, attract a work force of less ability then the norm etc!
Though one needs to remember too that not everybody has the wherewithal to be able to afford to make their purchasing decisions in the same way.
That does not mean its OK to rip the the customer off and have the Travel Company take liberties!
And my whole point is that one shouldn't expect a Mercedes Benz of a holiday from an outfit like Kosmar and that just as some people are happy with a basic runaround that does a basic job so some people realistically accept that they can't expect much of a basic holiday either.
You really are not getting this are you! I did say that so many people accept lower standards than others and asked if it was only in the UK that such poor standards are accepted!
As for my comments about Germans being willing to pay more for better quality it is based on the attitudes of German friends and colleagues. They don't buy on price alone and are prepared to pay more for a better quality product and as a result do get better service all round.
OK, I can only base my comments on my 17 years living in Germany. And no, I dont pay on price alone either, but as I said "many people in the UK accept lower standards" in order to avoid complaining!
Phew SM, you have made this needlessly hard!
Have a good one.
Hi SM,
Sorry, cannot agree. I, and I am sure that many others would not expect to be dealt with by some ignorant, rude and obnoxious oaf when all that is being requested is an explanation of why, flight times, dates, airports of departure and changes of accommodation had been made without consultatation! Similarly I would not expect a carrier to fly me from Bristol to EMA, then to Santorini and then to Chania without consultation, when the brochure implied nothing of the sort at the time of booking! All these whinges and whines formed the basis of mine and others complaints. The fact that one purchased a holiday of c £100.00 less than the norm does not automatically qualify one for a shoddy service! Whenever did the term Bargain mean crap!
I buy on the basis of 'value for money'
And you get VFM only when you are happy with what you have had! If you have not had a good service you did not get VFM and you really dont go into purchasing a holiday expecting not to get VFM. Its just that with this particular Travel Company the risks are greater, as a result fewer buy holidays with them, as a result the company cut too many corners, as a result they Island hop, cancel aircraft at regional airports, fly from one regional airport and pick up at another, cut the cleaning costs of aircraft, attract a work force of less ability then the norm etc!
Though one needs to remember too that not everybody has the wherewithal to be able to afford to make their purchasing decisions in the same way.
That does not mean its OK to rip the the customer off and have the Travel Company take liberties!
And my whole point is that one shouldn't expect a Mercedes Benz of a holiday from an outfit like Kosmar and that just as some people are happy with a basic runaround that does a basic job so some people realistically accept that they can't expect much of a basic holiday either.
You really are not getting this are you! I did say that so many people accept lower standards than others and asked if it was only in the UK that such poor standards are accepted!
As for my comments about Germans being willing to pay more for better quality it is based on the attitudes of German friends and colleagues. They don't buy on price alone and are prepared to pay more for a better quality product and as a result do get better service all round.
OK, I can only base my comments on my 17 years living in Germany. And no, I dont pay on price alone either, but as I said "many people in the UK accept lower standards" in order to avoid complaining!
Phew SM, you have made this needlessly hard!
Have a good one.
Dear Craven,
You seem unwilling or unable to accept that not everybody shares your views about Excel and/or Kosmar or to believe them when they say that they have no complaint with the service they personally received. What makes it 'needlessly hard' for you is that you keep trying to persuade people that you are right and they are wrong. You'll find that things will be so much easier if you can let it go and accept that not everybody has shared the same experiences as you and that not everybody uses the same criteria as you when making an assessment of what constitutes value for money.
You have made your views on both Excel and Kosmar well known on a number of threads/forums and perhaps you should just let this drop and accept that people will always base their decisions in the end on their own assessment of the situation and that as a result they will sometimes think differently to you.
SM
You seem unwilling or unable to accept that not everybody shares your views about Excel and/or Kosmar or to believe them when they say that they have no complaint with the service they personally received. What makes it 'needlessly hard' for you is that you keep trying to persuade people that you are right and they are wrong. You'll find that things will be so much easier if you can let it go and accept that not everybody has shared the same experiences as you and that not everybody uses the same criteria as you when making an assessment of what constitutes value for money.
You have made your views on both Excel and Kosmar well known on a number of threads/forums and perhaps you should just let this drop and accept that people will always base their decisions in the end on their own assessment of the situation and that as a result they will sometimes think differently to you.
SM
No I am not unwilling to accept that SM, just read the posts properly!
I reckon that the Travel Company in question are a poor organisation, despite that, their customers deserve better treatment than they get. What other travel company has been accused of lies to the extent of this one, what other travel company has tampered with their customers holidays like this one, what other travel company treats its customers so shabbiliy and with such rudeness and, exactly where have I doubted anyone who says that they have no complaints about them, please show me via a simple cut and paste or quote!
This Board, and others, has many examples of atrocious handling by the Travel Comapany in question, the same cannot be said about other more reputible organisations. You may well accept poor standards I do not!
I reckon that the Travel Company in question are a poor organisation, despite that, their customers deserve better treatment than they get. What other travel company has been accused of lies to the extent of this one, what other travel company has tampered with their customers holidays like this one, what other travel company treats its customers so shabbiliy and with such rudeness and, exactly where have I doubted anyone who says that they have no complaints about them, please show me via a simple cut and paste or quote!
This Board, and others, has many examples of atrocious handling by the Travel Comapany in question, the same cannot be said about other more reputible organisations. You may well accept poor standards I do not!
WILL all participants in this thread REMEMBER the laws on slander please do not make any statements that cannot be substantiated in a court of law
also everyone has had their own experience weather good or bad and there own opinions of the TO's and airlines Remember they are personal experience and not a point of argument
any further comments which appear unfounded will be deleted
wizard
also everyone has had their own experience weather good or bad and there own opinions of the TO's and airlines Remember they are personal experience and not a point of argument
any further comments which appear unfounded will be deleted
wizard
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