General Chat

Start a debate or just have a natter its all happening in the General Chat forum!
I'm still not buying into it, NHS England (NHSE) tried to introduce this by stealth and they were rumbled by people such as MedConfidential, Dr Neil Bhatia and the good doctor, Dr G Gancz.

Yes, Dr Gancz who opted all his 4,000 patients out and wrote to them all explaining that he would have to release identifiable data, and he would opt them in with their consent.
He got a bully boy email threatening him with his job and saying that he had no right to opt his patients out. So, basically, he had no right to opt his patients out, but NHSE had the right to opt everybody in without our consent?

This is the second 6 month delay and no doubt will be repackaged and 'sold' to the population to play on emotional blackmail and to try and 'big up' the benefits. (If you don't share your data with researchers, you're a horrible person and selfish)

NHSE is again being devious (they just can't help themselves :roll: ) by saying they had decided to delay the scheme because they had listened to the concerns of the public - really?
It wouldn't have anything to do with the solicitors Leigh Day who began a legal challenge the day before, on behalf of MedConfidential, arguing that the leaflet sent to households was misleading?
I could smell the burning rubber as NHSE applied the brakes. :lol:

So, they want to tell us all about the benefits, but how many people know about this?
US, UK sign bilateral health IT accord.
U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius and U.K. Secretary of State for Health Jeremy Hunt signed an agreement Jan. 23 meant to strengthen the sharing of healthcare data and
technology between the two countries.
While we have very different health care delivery systems and payment models, we both face similar challenges posed by aging populations, increased levels of co-morbid chronic disease, and escalating complexity of care delivery and costs," said Sebelius, who signed the memorandum of understanding with Hunt at the annual meeting of the Office of the National Coordinator for Health IT.,12,29

Or this
"People are using foreign data because it's available," Smith said. "The U.K. made some gutsy decisions about data liberation. There's political risk associated and they have a more tolerant climate over there"

IMO, Not with personal and sensitive health records they don't.!

To be continued............
I caught up with an article in the Telegraph today, written by the MP George Freeman preaching how it will do us all good to embrace
This wouldn't be the same George Freeman who......
Before entering Parliament, Freeman had a 15 year career in biomedical venture capital. He spent most of his career in and around the Cambridge cluster supporting high tech growth businesses. For the seven years prior to being elected he was Founder and Chairman of the specialist translational medicine consultancy 4D Biomedical Ltd. Prior to that he was CEO of Cambridge start-up Amedis Pharmaceuticals, and before that the Director of Early Stage Ventures at Merlin Biosciences.

Or the same George Freeman who said in Parliament (11 Nov 2010)
"What can we sell to the rest of the world, in order to repair our damaged public finances?" blah blah blah.....

The third is the national health service. I know from my own experience that we are sitting on billions of pounds-worth of patient data. Let us think about how we can unlock the value of those data around the world. We also need to look at new sectors of growth, such as agriculture. Why do we not look around the world and think about collaborating with countries with rising populations, such as India, where there is a long history of scientific research and food science and a prosperous and productive agricultural sector? Those are things that we could be doing to unlock growth without spending new money.

I'm too old and tired to get angry anymore and I should leave this alone - This is just the tip of the iceberg when you delve into the politicians and their vested interests in private health care or shares in supplying equipment to the NHS.

Some people have said "that they have a very boring health record and it will do nobody any good, so they can have it."
Surely whether you have a couple of pages of medical history or a file as big as a book. You should be asked for your consent to share what belongs to you ?

If it doesn't belong to you, imo: the GP's wouldn't be in the position they find themselves in today because of this care .data scheme (as the controller of the data)
And you should be told the truth about where your data might end up when it's sold outside of the NHS .? thing for sure, once it's out there, you'll never get your personal data back.

The snakes in Westminster (all of them of all colours) would sell their grannies for 50 pieces of silver. :twisted:

Here's the price list, as cheap as chips .....(this of course is not what the 'returns' will be) :wink:

Thanks Sanji, you really missed your vocation :tup The information you have discovered is very telling & I applaud you.

Lets hope the truth will out and it won't all be one way.
Thank you Sanji for bring this to every-ones attention, I would not have realised the implications without your input. When I gave the doctor our letters she said that lots of people had opted out.
One good thing has come out of this Sanji, the GP's I work at have employed someone purely to input the 'opt out' codes on to patients notes. There was a leaflet drop in the area last weekend and its been chaos at work answering the phones.
I've had too much time on my hands, sat on the sofa using my tablet, whilst I recovered from my operation. Something catches your eye, and then one link leads to another, then another one , etc.
Lets hope the truth will out and it won't all be one way.

I'm not holding my breath on that happening, It's already begun trying to label those who have concerns about this scheme as scaremonger's.
I sincerely hope that 6 months down the line, people will be more informed and therefore will be able to make an informed choice.

Whether it's 6 months or 16 months, they have to change certain parts of the scheme to protect patients.

Sanji x
It's good that your practise has employed someone to deal with the general public, unfortunately there were GP's/surgeries that knew very little about this scheme.

NHSE has not only tried to slip this under the radar of the general public, they also haven't informed the GP's very well either.
Consequently, surgeries have been handing out forms to opt-out of the SCR's - This complete and utter confusing shambles has probably resulted in people opting out of the SCR's, when they had no need too.

There really isn't any excuse for this, it's not as though the scheme is something that has emerged in the last few weeks. - The campaigners have been fighting this for 12 months and the original draft didn't allow for 'opt out'.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear - proof positive that HSCIC has sold patient data to insurers for insurance purposes. :evil:

Yet NHS England officials have sworn blind that (a) they don't sell patient data, (b) certainly not to insurers, and (c) definitely not for insurance purposes because (d) that would be "illegal".

For those bothering to read this, wondering if or why they should exercise the only alternative available to – to opt-out – THIS IS WHY.

Someone signed it off, So who's going to prison over this?

What with this and changing the law in the 'care bill' to make it possible for him (Hunt) to close hospitals without any scrutiny or public debate whatsoever...........

It's enough to make me howl at the moon. :twisted:
Sanji x
I posted the above post, I went for a cuppa tea and decided to have a nosey around the newspapers before shutting down my computer for the night... Now I am howling at the moon. :evil:
First NHS England officials flat out deny they are selling our data, even though money changes hands. Then they deny they sell data to insurers, but they've just been caught doing that.

Now we find pharmaceutical companies are queuing up behind so-called not-for-profit front companies to spy on what pills we take to get better. The whole scheme is starting to look like nothing more than a giant medical data-laundering machine."

We have been told it would be a crime to aggregate datasets, but this seems to be what i4health is proposing to do.

:swear unbelievable !!! :evil:

SMa wrote:
It doesn't currently affect me because I live in Scotland but if a similar scheme is implemented up here I will opt out because of the very broad range of people who could have access to it whereas if there were tighter controls and it was only made available to eg not-for-profit medical researchers I might well have agreed to it

For those in Scotland, you might like to take a look at 'SPIRE'.
I must confess that I don't take too much interest in what's happening in Scotland. No offence folks, it's just that I have enough to do, keeping up with the sneaky government toads in England.

For those in Scotland, you will be having a similar scheme, expected to be rolled out in late 2014 or early 2015 and called SPIRE.
Someone said on a FB page I visit. " why couldn't NHSE do it like the Scots"?
So, I thought I'd have a nosey. :smile:

Sanji x
Just read in the paper that Atos have been awarded the contract.
Amazing isn't it Carol that the minute it's made more public their involvement with the DWP and then the they suddenly say they are giving up the DWP contract due to staff threats....... ;)
The news that Atos has got the contract is not new, and the newspapers are just adding more wood to the fire that's burning around

Atos got the contract to do the extractions from the GP's surgeries to the HSCIC database, I read a while ago that the HSCIC database would be managed by 3 companies, I can't remember two of them off the top of my head, but what stood out was Siemens - Hmmm, 'Siemens IT' is part of Atos. :scratch:

Atos are flippin everywhere. I'd like to know how this French company has gained so many contracts in the UK worth billion of £'s - The company is 'broken up' into different trading arms to get around the competition rules.

The name Atos has become toxic in this country with their performance working for the DWP, and they will be replaced - probably by another poo private company such as Capita.

The government are rolling out another programme later in the year. It's designed to get the long term sick back into work, so Atos are probably getting ready for their new role in the DWP's Health & Work Service - under the NEW NAME (OH Assist) - migrating away from the toxic Atos name and website..

Make no mistake Atos (health care) and the new name 'OH Assist' are the same company, their VAT and company registration numbers are the same. - It's the same dog wagging a different tail,! :wink:
Health and Work Service

We are introducing a new Health and Work Service in late 2014. This will provide occupational health advice and support for employees, employers and GPs to help people with a health condition to stay in or return to work.

There are 2 elements to the service:
•assessment – once the employee has reached, or is expected to reach, 4 weeks of sickness absence they will normally be referred by their GP for an assessment by an occupational health professional, who will look at all the issues preventing the employee from returning to work
•advice – employers, employees and GPs will be able to access advice through a phone line and website

Following an assessment, employees will receive a return to work plan with recommendations to help them to return to work more quickly and information on how to get appropriate help and advice.

We will introduce a tax exemption of up to £500 a year for each employee on medical treatments recommended by the Health and Work Service or an employer-arranged occupational health service.

Sanji x
Hello, long time no see.
After over 7 years, I thought the extraction of patients medical records to share with everybody and his dog was truly dead and buried.
Not so, the government is determined to press forward with this and they've now come up with an even bigger and far reaching programme.

Just as sneaky and underhand as their first and failed '' information grab, thanks to the publicity which killed that one off, they've been working on another grab at your medical records......and again they sneakily withheld this information until after the Queen's speech.....So no, Elizabeth 11 wouldn't be including this in her recent speech in parliament .

I'm going to include some links. I wholeheartedly suggest that you take the time to read them, because unlike the '' have very little time to opt-out of this.
Patient data from doctors' surgeries in England will be shared from 1 July 2021 unless patients opt out by 23 June 2021.

According to MedConfidenial:
N.B. If you opted out of in 2014, then you don’t need to do anything now. As most people did both a ‘Type 1’ and what is now a national’ opt-out, you can check your NHS Digital opt out status at NHS Digital
, and your GP status will probably match; although if you’re not sure, leaving a form with your GP Practice doesn’t have any risk.

Take care, keep safe.

Sanji x
Hi again

Once again a demonstration of the old HT - the old HT forum came about because we can't talk holidays 24 hours a day - unfortunately even that has gone now.

No doubt people have forgotten all about this (and other) information that is important,

I spent some time a few years ago working with a charity teaching people how to use a computer and the internet (although my wife still resists my efforts)

The claims we are all on the internet is one of the biggest con tricks ever. Just because you have a Smart Phone that connects to the net is meaningless. So many cases of being conned out of their money can probably be laid at the feet of **I do so much on my phone** Official statistics still say that between 15 and 20 million people are not in the net. My wife who is very inteligent just cannot get her head around technology whilst I have a very nice little earner with my consultancy work which means I spend a lot of hours on the computer - but I am lost when it comes to something like Suduko.

I am sure that most people will be in the dark about what happens with their data - I only but the Sunday Times yet read various newspapers online but admit I miss a lot. In my case I suffer from doubt as the media tells us only what they want us to know - and the fact some wannabee has a 99 inch bust and her bikini leaves nothing to the imagination seems to be par for the course the days.
The leaflets about this new database are being posted amongst junk mail, if you have prescribed via the Post Office to not receive junk mail, then you won't even know about it, unless you read passed the Daily Mail.
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