IMO if the Goan govenrment want to be a tourist destination with a tourist industry they have to supply what the customer requires.

Isn't that a bit selfish since the Indian culture does not accept nudity. There are plenty of other countries with these customs/laws where you would be fined/given warnings by tourist police. Try doing this outside Goa and I can assure you you will be told in no uncertain manner to cover up.

Put simply, Goa is not the Med' so act accordingly.

I don't see how it is selfish.
IFthe government of a country wants to generate a tourist industry then they have to accept that the paying customer wants to go somewhere that is prepared to accomodate their desires, and consequently accept that whatever the paying customer wants may not always be what the locals want.
I doubt that the locals of Goa are happy with the amount of bars/ restaurants that they cannot afford to eat in but don't see anyone protesting that these should be closed down because they offend the locals!
If however the government is only wishing to encourage visitors or guests then they can stipulate whatever codes of practice they wish.
I class myself as a customer because I do not go anywhere on holiday to enrich myself with the local customs etc.but go to relax and enjoy myself
I will observe local customs where possible but not to the detriment of enjoying myself.
If however I choose to visit, for example, a temple then I realise before going that I will need to dress accordingley and as the temple is not an "industry" I will happily comply.
In spite of my posted opinions, anyone who knows me on holiday will confirm that I am a decent kind of bloke who doesn't get drunk, become abusive,or any of the other anti -social behaviours that put British tourists in a bad light. But I do firmly believe that as long as someones behaviour is not harming anyone else that a person should be free to do as they like, and i cannot see how sunbathing topless or walking the streets of a holiday resort is harming anyone, offending perhaps but not harming.
I am sorry if my beliefs OFFEND anyone

But I do firmly believe that as long as someones behaviour is not harming anyone else

Isn't that exactly what you ARE doing though.

I'm really at a loss of what to make of del949s posts. As far as I'm concerned you should stick to the rules and sensabilities of the country you are visiting, and to state that you are entitled to carry on in a manner YOU think is ok, as this is what accepting tourists means to a country, well I would suggest this view will get very short shrift indeed in some of the worlds tourism hot spots I've visited, such as the likes of Dubai, or for that matter Australia.
I have on occasions popped into Chocolatears after a day on the beach or shopping, and I can assure you a stripped to the waist person at the next table, would not be acceptable to me, or I would think the rest of the customers. Alan

There will always be holidaymakers who will disregard local customs as it is intervering in their fun. This article is saying though that in the case of not covering up when off the beach this should no longer be allowed to happen. If holidaymakers object to this then they can of course protest by not returning. Whether they get as far as enforcing this is another matter. Somehow I think, with more and more flesh being exposed on the beach they may well take a stand.
I'm sure I have unwittingly done something that may have offended in one of the countries I've been too. There are so many "do nots" in various countries, and some are strange ones. However, I would never knowingly offend.

Sorry, But I don't agree with your reasoning del.
On doing my researching on Goa, as a possible destination, I found that topless sunbathing was against the law, and modest clothing advised off the beaches.
This was one of the reasons I chose to visit Goa, and I think other visitors may have the same views. At the last hotel I stayed in there was a sign ,Topless sunbathing not allowed, and at another some guests were politely asked to cover up.
x lassi

Lassigirl, true that topless sunbathing is illegal. So is driving a scooter without the required permits, insurance and licence etc. so is drinking alcohol during elections etc.
Do all tourists honour these rules? Or do they just smile and say " how quaint"?

Gramps, we had this same discussion last year.
the fact that the law is ENFORCED in Dubai is one of the resons I choose not to go there.
If Goa wishes to enforce its' laws the same way , then perhaps i will choose not to go there.
If, however it wishes to be a tourist industry destination, then it MUST allow tourists to do their thing.
It's the law of commerce.

And now for the star comment.
Big Neil, please READ what I posted . I said

But I do firmly believe that as long as someones behaviour is not harming anyone else that a person should be free to do as they

How is offending someones morals HARMING them.

Despite what you believe, I really am quite a nice guy!!

del,
I know that some tourists ride scooters etc, without the correct papers and helmets, but this dosn't cause offence to the locals, as many do it themselves ! This is getting completly
The day I see Goan ladies topless on the beaches, and scantily dressed on the streets, with their bare-chested menfolk, then I may agree with you.
x lassi

You hit the nail on the head there Lassigirl

I agree with del949 although I understand not everyone will. I sunbathe topless and understand this is against the law however I don't ride a moped without a licence or helmut!! I do not holiday in America as topless sunbathing is not accepted, would I holiday in Goa if I had to wear a top - will let you know if the law is ever policed.

However I do not walk along the beach in a tiny thong or naked, I never leave my sun bed without a top and always walk along the street with t-shirt and shorts or skirt on. If this makes me an undesirable to some well so bit it. There are many things people do on holiday that I find offensive, however will I still be offended by it when I am in a rocking chair - probably not, therefore I try to put everything into context and appreciate for every action in life there is a consequence - can I live with that consequence?

I also think the world would be extremely small and sad if "we within reason" accepted we didn't all want the same thing from a holiday destination.

Perhaps we should all direct our energy into helping Goans improve their life style, by ensuring the monies we spend in Goa are in Goan restauramts, shacks, bars etc so that it is not taken out of state?

Del 949 thank you for posting and being what some would think controversial. I think you appear balanced in attitude and approach!!!

It is disrespectful but when we go to the beach we seem to be surrounded by over endowed topless women. - showing off their stetch marks et al. Why do they want to show off their droppey boobs - it is beyond me. I have large boobs but keep them in my nice M & S underwired suit and I look good (even if I say it myself) not showing off my stretchy bits.

This was one of the reasons I chose to visit Goa, and I think other visitors may have the same views.

Lassigirl, I don't think that the riding of scooters without the correct paperwork is off topic as the thread has develped more into a discussion of generally obeying laws and customs whilst in Goa.
Pursuing this thought then, why is it acceptable to ignore one set of laws/ rules and to be expected to obey others?
If I were unfortunate enough to have a choice between being mowed down by a non insured /licensed scooter rider or a women with large, free range boobs, I know which I would choose!

If you genuinely believe that a visitor should dress in line with the locals , so as not to give offence, does this mean that you would go swimming wearing the local dress?
Of course not, you would wear a normal type of swimsuit, even though Indian ladies by and large, don't.
So, the wearing of a one piece bikini is only an extension of this expression of free will.
If I thought that going topless WAS harming anyone, then I would be among the first to ask for enforcement of the laws but as I cannot understand how this HARMS anyone I won't.
Try seeing this from the other side ...... if the rules of sunbathing in Goa were that going topless was EXPECTED and was NORMAL, how many of you ladies who have some modesty would fall in line?
Not many , I expect. Even though in this scenario you would be contravening the local customs.
I would imagine that those of you who choose to cover up, would continue to do so.
So, in my opinion (and I do realise that going topless is against the law) if you are not harming anyone you should be able to do what you like, within reason of course

Big Neil.
Did you honestly consider the illegality of topless sunbathing before choosing to holiday in Goa?
Was it TRULY one of the reasons you made the decision to go there?
And, if so, would a change in Goan law to make it legal, stop you going?

I accept that I am in a very small minority on this subject and am glad that it has not ,as yet , degenerated into name calling etc.
Has anyone got any views that have not been aired so far (or does anyone else wish to support me..... please!)

I wonder if I will see lots of English ladies carrying banners on the beach this season encouraging other ladies to "cover up". Now that is a thought!

Finally, (tongue firmly in cheek)I think that I would look very silly wearing a bikini top on my man boobs,,,,,,, but if that is what is needed , then so be it.
In February look for the guy with swim shorts and an itsy bitsy yellow polka dot bikini top somewhere near Monicas, Candolim

Look out for you Del? We want a photo now!!!!!

The recent comment by del949 "If however it wishes to be a tourist industry destination then it MUST allow tourists to do their thing" is the one that concerns me. I would suggest it's this attitude that has ruined more peoples holidays in Goa, and elsewhere, than anything else. Alan

Big Neil.
Did you honestly consider the illegality of topless sunbathing before choosing to holiday in Goa?
Was it TRULY one of the reasons you made the decision to go there?
And, if so, would a change in Goan law to make it legal, stop you going?

There's such a thing as growing old gracefully, personally I don't want to see burnt withered 'bits' and lobster bellies. But I know where to go in Goa to avoid all this. And funnily enough these people mainly hang about the same areas.

Personally I think this thread is turning into a rant rather than a discussion. The main point is that we are talking about India and they have their laws .... period. If you want to argue with the Goan police about indecency and forcing it .... go ahead. Personally i would just put up with it, the last thing they would be interested in is British viewpoint on this anyway.

Milliemeg, be very careful what you wish for!!!

gramps, as said before we have already had this discussion.

I appreciate that you have been going to Goa for a long time and remember when it wasn't a "tourist destination" per se.
However, time does progress and with it also progresses peoples expectations.
This has been encouraged by the Indian goevernment itself, by promoting Goa as a holiday destination.
it is not my decision to do this, nor would I say that it is desirable, but if any government decides for development of a financial opportunity it has two choices.
1 , it can try to develop the "tourism" along lines that do not disturb the local enviroment, or
2, it can go the whole hog and develop an " industry" that attracts maximum visitors and money.
With the building work and toursit infrastructure that is currently in progress in Goa it is fairly obvious which route the government has taken.
it is not my attitude which has spoilt (?) goa.
The local government has the opportunity, if it wishes, to police and enforce the current legislation re topless sunbathing, and with it hopefully the other laws which are fragrantley broken on a daily basis.
But if it did such a thing, would Goa lose the attraction that it now has for the increasing number of people going here?
One of the principle reasons I enjoy Goa is for the fairly laid back approach and a general freedom to be yourself without the constant intervention of authority (once clear of Dabolim, that is) and I would imagine that this is pretty much the same for most.

After our exchange last year on the same subject, I made a point of talking to several Goans whilst there in february. When I asked specifically about the amount of topless on the beach or skimpy clothing on the streets (in resort not in the towns) most replies were pretty much indifferent. In fairness, the people I spoke to were usually engaged in tourism and so would be expected to put their business interest first.
But I did speak to some who had no reason to be reluctant to criticise and there were only a couple of individuals who thought that it was of any importance.
It seems to me that tourists themselves are more offended by bare skin than the locals are.

At the risk of repeating something I said last year, it is not just the new visitors to Goa who have altered the place, it was the early visitors who instigated a change for the comforts that they required, be it bars/ restaurants or decent hotels.
I am sure that you would prefer it to have remained an idyllic paradise, but the very fact that you went DID cause some of these changes to begin and sadly, should you find somewhere else that is now an idyllic paradise then the very fact that you go as a tourist will start the changes there also.
Sorry, but that IS how life is.

Just re- read this and I would like to make it clear that when I refer to "you", I do not mean you personally as an individual Alan but as a general term for early visitors.

Big Neil, sorry that I appear to have caused you to become a bit antagonistic.
Not ranting at all, just a friendly, generally intelligent exchange of viewpoints.
As I have already said I have no problems either way with going topless, but think that it is mountain made out of a molehill.
Anyway I have nothing better to do today than play with the computer!!
Stay happy Neil ( anyone who signs as BIG , is too big for me to argue with

If, however it wishes to be a tourist industry destination, then it MUST allow tourists to do their thing.
It's the law of commerce.

:

Personally I think this thread is turning into a rant rather than a discussion

I tend to agree with Big Neil. As I said in an earlier post the original post was about what GOANS think. For the moment, you can be aware of these views but choose to ignore them. Shortly you might not have that option. I'll let this run for a bit longer but it may well end up being locked if it continues the way it's going.